IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[SomeoneElse333]

You could certainly try members of the public have tweeted law enforcement directly about this case and managed to get a reply. I've seen members of the media ask law enforcement questions from viewers and readers before at press conferences in other cases.

Thanks!

I wonder if this might make a reasonable topic for discussion. What question/s would you want as part of a brief (2-5?) set of questions to ask LE? Think of questions that might help here without compromising their case.

 

[Jabarn]

I know what you're saying. I recall numerous excellent, detailed and well researched posts about the possibility the bodies were moved or not. Clearly those sleuths invested a fair amount of time in presenting their opinion. But that was yesterday or the day before or the day before that. Each new day an entirely new discussion occurs as if it was never before talked about, over and over....


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The idea keeps cropping up here that the girls were transported by car away from the Monon High Bridge Trail area, and were brought back to the opposite side of Deer Creek following the searchers leaving the area in the early morning hours of February 14.

Since this crime is still unsolved after so many clues, it could be that.

It is so hard for me to believe it though.

The little evidence we understand from the video suggest the girls were led down a hill, and something happened close the area quickly, but on the Monon High Bridge side of Deer Creek. How they got to the other side of the creek is a total mystery to me, but it is likely the investigators have some ideas on that.

IMO, this was a crime that started and ended before the search for the girls started and somehow, the girls' bodies were missed in the evening searches on the night of February 13. It may be because the searchers didn't understand the gravity of what was to unfold the next day, and were thinking calling their names might lead to a response. I don't know for sure.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Or could Tricia interview some Delphi le on her radio show and ask them some of our questions?

What a great idea!

 

[Jethro4WS]

Well...I keep having my own party lol and maybe it's just so I don't forget my train of thought! That USAggregates is an affiliate of a larger company which has job opportunities outside of Indiana. Maybe LE knew this and that was why billboards were used. I am just trying to link him with Delphi specifically and then see the larger arena he may be in.

My opinion of course lol...just keeping my mind active with possibilities! Sorry if I am redundant!

I think it is important that people work through their ideas on a forum like this. It may be right direction and even if it isn't it may spark a different avenue of pursuit or be useful in another case.

 

[otto]

otto, I read every one of your posts, when time allows. You are a wonderful sleuth with many good ideas.

Fact: LE stated that BG was a participant before he became the main suspect.

Fact: LE does not know if the audio recorded voice belongs to BG.

When considering those two compelling facts, how can you eliminate other participants possibly being involved?

I can, but that doesn't mean that other should restrict their theories to one suspect. I am only looking at what we know, and we know about one person. I am assuming that the one person is the person we hear on audio. I'm pretty sure that the only reason that police cannot say that the voice belongs to the suspect is because they don't see his lips moving when they hear the words.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I am guilty of this and except what you have spoken. My apology without offense. Are we really solving anything. I know it takes a burden off my brain to find a listening ear, and my voice is given here because I have no where else to speak. One basket per case is enough. But two members have mentioned near noon today of a motorcycle scarf and no where have I read anything concerning that mode of transport. he layered clothing, the supposed goggles, the warm day just made me halt in my tracks. If this isn't new, then I missed it too. Thanks to the skull design posted earlier. Do you consider this off-base? (Except to accept on edit. Thanks. Nothing else to add.

Your posts are always interesting and well written I dare so no need to apologise. Readers can always s&r to avoid stuff or lurk as necessary or go elsewhere even. There's loads of other threads on here for everyone imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think someone is doing that (the gravel pit and map) . And we have the vids. Its wooded and by the side of a creek. That's also been gone over many times. Pristine Iirc.

I've just searched the media thread and I'm not able to find the videos.

Do you happen to have a link? I think it's very helpful for people to see the area as it adds context to the discussion.

 

[Ghosthunter]

What a great idea!

Thanks!!

 

[whiskers]

I believe everyone but LE was very agitated. LE was working on the 'teens disappear to friends etc." But to the family and people who knew them it was desperate. Interviews with searchers were not light, the many searched straight thorough the night. In my opinion, it was obvious that they were fearing a terrible outcome and hoping not. These kinds of kids just don't disappear or change plans without a call. The search on 2/13 made national news.

In a few of the earliest videos from the news, I didn't notice all family members agitated. Some seemed more laid back about it than other family members.

 

[MistyWaters]

the idea of just "missing" the deceased girls raises the question "WHO missed the deceased girls?.....which "searcher" missed them?....

My question would be, that first evening, who immediatley presumed the girls were dead as opposed to missing? LE indicated as late as midnight that no foul play was expected.

 

[Peace777]

I agree with you. what is the point of any advance technology unless it is used immediately where it likely to help.
Unused search capacity sitting in its box is identical to a box of rocks.
Any child with no runaway history that is missing is an emergency.

LG grandfather (not MP) had mentioned in an interview if LG and AW had gone to LG's mother's when other family found out the girls weren't at that grandfather's. I had asked awhile back if LG had a habit of just taking off to her real mom's (not sure where she lives tho).

 

[Shiressleuth]

I've just searched the media thread and I'm not able to find the videos.

Do you happen to have a link? I think it's very helpful for people to see the area as it adds context to the discussion.

The Gray Huze videos at the beginning of every thread are great. Have you seen them? And the helicopter footage the day the girls were found plus some great drone footage on you tube. Sorry I don't have links.

 

[Jethro4WS]

LG grandfather (not MP) had mentioned in an interview if LG and AW had gone to LG's mother's when other family found out the girls weren't at that grandfather's. I had asked awhile back if LG had a habit of just taking off to her real mom's (not sure where she lives tho).

If I had to guess I would say it would be about a 220 mile or more walk to LG's mother's home.

 

[Shiressleuth]

My question would be, that first evening, who immediatley presumed the girls were dead as opposed to missing? LE indicated as late as midnight that no foul play was expected.

I think peel meant which searchers missed finding the girls at the creek edge.i.e.who searched that area the first night and said it was clear .

 

[Jabarn]

I can, but that doesn't mean that other should restrict their theories to one suspect. I am only looking at what we know, and we know about one person. I am assuming that the one person is the person we hear on audio. I'm pretty sure that the only reason that police cannot say that the voice belongs to the suspect is because they don't see his lips moving when they hear the words.

As far as we know from what has been released by a collaborated effort from the local and state police, with guidance from the FBI, the picture of the guy on the bridge is the only suspect. That would lead me to think the voice capture released by this collaborative effort is likely that of the only suspect identified. While no one has come forward to identify him, I would say it it likely the image and voice are the one, lone suspect. I am stymied with the reward so high, no one has come forward to name him successfully.

Why could that be? Is he so off the radar that no one knows him? Is he so technically ignorant to not know what a cell phone with these capabilities could do?

Trying to put it all together and understand why he would not see the importance of a teen girl's phone and what evidence it could provide versus how he has not been identified. All I can think tonight is he must be completely off the grid.

 

[otto]

How long would it take to search 40 acres in the dark? I don't know.

hours

 

[Ghosthunter]

Thanks!

I wonder if this might make a reasonable topic for discussion. What question/s would you want as part of a brief (2-5?) set of questions to ask LE? Think of questions that might help here without compromising their case.

Was Libby's phone found? Cod? Does le believe the girls were killed where they were found? And yes...here it is...drum roll..is RL under suspicion???

 

[slanda]

I'm not sure why some are so baffled as to how one adult male could have easily gained control over two 13 yr old girls?

This question has come up a few times and has also been answered. I did some research pertaining to this specific scenario and found that more "successful" killers oftentimes target more than one person, or target families because it is Easier for the killer to control victims because they use the inherent love the victims have for one another to manipulate and better control the situation. Here is a quote on that very topic via https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201311/how-serial-killers-get-away-their-murders:

"Finally, as contradictory as it sounds, there are unsolved cases of killers involving entire families. One killer told me it was easier to kill more than one victim at a time. He said it can be easier to control victims by threatening their friends and family. Parents will do anything for their children, including agreeing to be tied up. He also said police are usually so mortified by the scene that mistakes can be made. So strangely, those that target families and more than one victim at once have been known to get away with multiple murders. If they are in control enough to keep quiet about the crimes, they are less likely to be caught."

Taking control of and apprehending two or more people is seemingly easier to do than just targeting one person.

*Please see the multiple accounts of Dennis Rader (he killed families), Ted Bundy, The Manson Family, The Zodiac Killer, Edmund Kemper, Danny Rolling *Gainsville Slayings, Donald Gaskins, etc... to see how and why killers sometimes choose to target more than one victim at a time.

LE described that A+L were controlled and manipulated by the love they had for one another; thus, this very scenario I have described above was confirmed by LE.

I'm not sure it's even worth mentioning but, besides the fact A+L loved each other, they were for all intents and purposes, just children. Children are way more vulnerable for obvious reasons and can be easily controlled in most circumstances.

Also, it has also discussed how/why the killer left Liberty's phone? ... I think she dropped it on purpose somewhere hoping it would be found... (Afterall, She was very smart and maybe she knew the killer would want to destroy it if he found it and she knew she was recording him.) I could imagine it would take a lot of time to scour the woods and the underbrush looking for it, maybe the killer just couldn't find it.

One more thing: I personally think the girls were left where they were killed. I do think it would be very difficult to find them in the very dark woods... There was moonlight and flashlights but even if the killer scattered leaves over them, I think it would be hard to locate them in such a densely wooded area in pitch black darkness. I also don't understand why it's so hard to fathom why they "should have" been found the night they went missing? I'm sure without light you probably couldn't see your hand in front of your face at night ... It just seems plausible that frantic searching in a very dark and secluded place could invariably leave some room for not readily or easily discovering the girls' bodies.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

As far as we know from what has been released by a collaborated effort from the local and state police, with guidance from the FBI, the picture of the guy on the bridge is the only suspect. That would lead me to think the voice capture released by this collaborative effort is likely that of the only suspect identified. While no one has come forward to identify him, I would say it it likely the image and voice are the one, lone suspect. I am stymied with the reward so high, no one has come forward to name him successfully.

Why could that be? Is he so off the radar that no one knows him? Is he so technically ignorant to not know what a cell phone with these capabilities could do?

Trying to put it all together and understand why he would not see the importance of a teen girl's phone and what evidence it could provide versus how he has not been identified. All I can think tonight is he must be completely off the grid.

MOO: I think he knew about the cell phone, and I've wondered if he used it as part of his crime...to document it in a way and maybe even leave a message on it for LE. I find it hard to believe that anyone would think that someone--especially someone L&A's age--would not have a mobile.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[Falling Down]

Do you have a link for either of those videos that shows the crime scene being high above the creek?

Because ...

The area down there is relatively flat just like the LIDAR (which is an elevation mapping technique) shows.

x2

East terrain.. down by the creek.