Found Deceased IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

[TigerLilly]

I see it too. Same light brown-dirty blonde as what I'm assuming is his hair.

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Yes, that's what I see...light brown or dirty blonde. thank you

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[TigerLilly]

Yes I see a 70's ish thick mustache as well.

Are they sure RL isnt BG? the more I see the more I wonder.

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[DB90]

Are they sure RL isnt BG? the more I see the more I wonder.

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He seems younger than RL to me. But with so much distortion it's hard to say. If that is in fact a mustache I would say it's fairly close to RL's, but the hair seems longer in the BG picture as well, maybe a wig?

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[LaneGirl]

Are they sure RL isnt BG? the more I see the more I wonder.

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I'm fairly new to this case and don't know who or what RL looks like nor who he is so I can't really comment, sorry.

 

[TigerLilly]

He seems younger than RL to me. But with so much distortion it's hard to say. If that is in fact a mustache I would say it's fairly close to RL's, but the hair seems longer in the BG picture as well, maybe a wig?

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I cant tell from the pic how long BG's hair is. It is so blurry. I was surprised how the mustache jumped out when enhanced.

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[TigerLilly]

I'm fairly new to this case and don't know who or what RL looks like nor who he is so I can't really comment, sorry.

RL is the property owner where the bodies were found. He was arrested for probation violations and his property was searched. Alot of speculation but no proof that he was involved. LE has said he is not a suspect but remains involved in the investigation. I dont think he can be sleuthed here tho.

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[DB90]

I cant tell from the pic how long BG's hair is. It is so blurry. I was surprised how the mustache jumped out when enhanced.

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So hard to say. I see a bit of a shorter on top shaggy at the bottom mullet thing going on! But I could be completely off.

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[LaneGirl]

So hard to say. I see a bit of a shorter on top shaggy at the bottom mullet thing going on! But I could be completely off.

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I totally see a mullet, chili bowl cut going on. Long hair on top and not tapered off for some reason.

 

[Agent Apricot]

Since there is no "official" source for the two Snapchat images captured by Liberty's phone, I created a comparison of a small region of the image showing Abigail. Hoping that people can find it useful when choosing which version of the image to work with.

From what I've read, the original Snapchat images were screenshotted by someone who was on the distribution of the Snapchat and posted to Facebook by at least one person. The Facebook posts seem to be deleted, but the images live on in news articles.

Personally I prefer source #3, but that is only my preference visually.

1. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4224810/Two-bodies-search-missing-13-year-old-girls.html
2. http://elitedaily.com/news/girl-last-snapchat-bodies-found/1792104/
3. http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
4. http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/15/two-g...r-posting-final-pictures-on-snapchat-6450019/
5. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/police-investigating-deaths-missing-girls-9836853
6. http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...m/news-story/e9a91eebc06a5730b92026d6e26a6f75

My recommendation to researchers is this: If you see a very fine detail in the image, double-check or triple-check the same region of the image from another news source's version to ensure it is really there (and not simply a compression artifact).

Curious if anyone has any of the original Facebook posted photos, and if they are better quality? I've spent more time than I care to admit looking for them without luck.

https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/liberty-german-last-snapchat-2.png

https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/liberty-german-last-snapchat.png

These are the originals, I do believe.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi johunt. I agree that what we are seeing is plastic bag handles. As you say, it has jagged edges. Also I had to dispel the goggle theory as the white bit changes shape between the two pictures. I also do not see rope (because of the jagged edges) or a question mark. imo, of course

Hey Websight! :seeya:

I was zooming in on your image that you created and noticed that BG appears to have a mustache that extends below the chin. Did you also see this? I had just assumed it was trimmed neatly before.

Photo Credit to WebSight.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Posting some of the photo's that I've enhanced, not that I'm an expert by any means. :blushing:

Here is the photo from ABC News that was superimposed on a different background.

The picture is at the .54 mark on the video link.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-release-audio-clip-victims-phone-hopes-catching/story?id=45655692

To me it appears he is wearing his hat on backwards, but I could be wrong.

What is very interesting and you can see it in the original picture is that there is something on the left side of his jacket.

To really see it, save the picture to you computer and zoom in on the jacket sleeve.

 

[WebSight]

Ok I just did a test putting a white plastic bag with handles in the same position as in BG pic. No way could I get the plastic bag to lie nice and flat against my chest in the way it does in this photo. The bag pokes out and looks very crumpled up.. Then I mimicked if there was wind and the bag blew around. It also moved around as I moved sideways, twisted etc. It didn't take the shape of what looks like a skull. JMO

Peace777, it is funny how we look at things. I know a lot of people see a skull and I just cannot see it, lol, like you with the bags!

If I may suggest the white thing, whatever it is, it is in the foreground, sticking out of his jacket, not laying flat against his chest. The loop is covering the right side opening of the jacket.

What would be your thoughts and would you do your experiment again so you can tell us if that works? I would love to hear. Thx!

 

[WebSight]

I would think walking around and having the handles only hanging out any given moment they would do all sorts of things including looking flat and taking on all types of shapes. ETA - We can't exactly emulate the wind that was going on at any given time either I would think.

Having said that I'm not opposed to the skull idea but the jagged white on the upper right just seems like threads of something. Does it not to you? The thickness of the outline varies as well.

I would like to try this experiment but I don't have access to plastic bags as they are "banned" here. But I do appreciate your experiment and thoughts I think its important!

I was going to say the same thing about the plastic bags but I thought no one would believe me! France got rid of the plastic bags years ago, though some are still lurking about, I don't have any. So I cannot do the experiment either.

I asked Peace777 to do the experiment again with the bag handle sticking out on the right side, so hopefully they will and let us know.

 

[Thyme]

Since there is no "official" source for the two Snapchat images captured by Liberty's phone, I created a comparison of a small region of the image showing Abigail. Hoping that people can find it useful when choosing which version of the image to work with.

From what I've read, the original Snapchat images were screenshotted by someone who was on the distribution of the Snapchat and posted to Facebook by at least one person. The Facebook posts seem to be deleted, but the images live on in news articles.

Personally I prefer source #3, but that is only my preference visually.

1. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4224810/Two-bodies-search-missing-13-year-old-girls.html
2. http://elitedaily.com/news/girl-last-snapchat-bodies-found/1792104/
3. http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
4. http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/15/two-g...r-posting-final-pictures-on-snapchat-6450019/
5. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/police-investigating-deaths-missing-girls-9836853
6. http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...m/news-story/e9a91eebc06a5730b92026d6e26a6f75

My recommendation to researchers is this: If you see a very fine detail in the image, double-check or triple-check the same region of the image from another news source's version to ensure it is really there (and not simply a compression artifact).

Curious if anyone has any of the original Facebook posted photos, and if they are better quality? I've spent more time than I care to admit looking for them without luck.

I have the original screenshots if that helps.

 

[michael.gartley]

https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/liberty-german-last-snapchat-2.png

https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/liberty-german-last-snapchat.png

These are the originals, I do believe.

You might be right. They are at least as good as a few others. Since it is a wordpress site, I archived them here:

http://archive.is/JPxT9
http://archive.is/YJw8d

as a backup. Not sure if anyone on websleuths uses that site (archive.is), but is similar to archive.org except it permits you to submit a URL for backup for a given date/time.

 

[Agent Apricot]

I've always thought the white part could be the neck loop of an apron. Here's one example from a butcher supply shop. The blade sharpener in this same image is interesting to me as well.

https://www.waltonsinc.com/white-bib-apron-cotton-poly

 

[michael.gartley]

There is a fancy worded psychological phenomenon called "Pareidolia", I know I've seen posts on websleuths about it before.

It basically means the human brain is apt to perceive a familiar pattern, even if non exists.

This is a fun MSM article explaining it better:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3280816/What-photos-s-faces-suffer-facial-pareidolia.html

The reason I point this out again, even though it might be annoying, is to remind you of the effect.

Just because you see something (i.e. a plastic bag), and others do not, doesn't always mean it is this effect. However, it's always good to keep in mind as a possibility. Sometimes, it's impossible to know from a single image if something we see is really there or not.

 

[michael.gartley]

I've always thought the white part could be the neck loop of an apron. Here's one example from a butcher supply shop. The blade sharpener in this same image is interesting to me as well.

https://www.waltonsinc.com/white-bib-apron-cotton-poly

That would be consistent with some people's theory that BG worked at the local meat packing plant :thinking:

 

[ImnoSherlock]

That would be consistent with some people's theory that BG worked at the local meat packing plant :thinking:

Would you say that these photos are "layered"? I use that word because I don't know the professional term.If being layered,can you see the different layers or different images within the images by adjusting the settings?

 

[No it's not]

Nin, if you posted this before, I surely missed it because this one is very telling.
Are we to assume that Libby was either off the bridge or on that last platform when taking this? Is this based on the Gray Hughes vid? Have you calculated the distance between the tree limb reference to the end of the bridge? This image supports Michael's rendering earlier in the thread.

I posted this before GH's video. Once I saw the Daily Mail image, it darned to me how zoomed-in the bridge can look with an almost deceiving view on distances.

It was even suggested it may be another bridge. After a poster had taken an image of the SE end of the bridge showing the red barricade with the yellow tape, we understood, that there was a red barricade on the NE as well as at the SE end of the bridge. The Daily Mail image was indeed our bridge.

I estimated the POI/BG height and placed him in this approximate location first considering there were 2 white spots on the side rail. That position would have placed Libby on either the last platform or slightly off the bridge. If Abby had been taken the shot from the platform, I would have expected the image to be less pixelated. But then I am not familiar to how good or bad of a quality her cell phone (what kind?) video would be. Then GH published his video of the first suggested location ( he corrected the location afterwards and published a new video).

I went back to Abby's picture on the bridge and measured the width of the bridge walkway based on Abby's known height (ISP poster) of 5'4":

That was almost supported by this image and the known gauge standard. But I was 2" off, which could be caused by the way Abby had her hair up making it difficult to get an exact point.

I considered GH's video and measured the height of the POI/BG based on the above measurements, which got me to about 5'9" to 6' allowing for +/- 2inches of faulty readings (Abby's hair). Trying to re-establish a vanishing point in the ISP image and visually trying to fit the POI/BG in on the bridge utilizing the same video of the bridge as GH also let to approximately the same result while leaning towards the shorter end of the previous measurement of 5'9" to possibly only 5'7".



Then GH corrected the POI/BG position and placed him close to being in the vicinity of the last platform, which would place Libby definitely off the bridge and possibly on the part of the land, that is a bit higher than the bridge itself IMO. Well, considering that new location from GH's video and trying to measure I am off by at least a foot. So, either Libby had an optical zoom on her cell phone camera and that may contribute to the discrepancy, but then why am I in agreement with the first reading and the optical fit-in re-scaling method as opposed to the second reading?

It is therefore possible, that the POI/BG has a height of either 5'7" or even less than that. However, considering that the side rails RRTs are 4 inches tall ( a member went out and measured them) and that the width of the walkway is between 78" and 80" and that the visual re-scaling and actual measuring all put him at about the above measurements, I am tending to say, that GH's final positioning of the POI/BG may be correct, but that a possible optical zoom (not digital) makes it more difficult to establish final height.

Why LE has not published an approximate height and weight estimation is beyond me. They could have remeasured and recreated based on Libby's phone/zoom ( if applicable) and we could have excluded a vast majority of suspects.

All IMO

-Nin

Sources:
Daily Mail
Landmarks.org
Gray Hughes