Resolved ID - Mountain Home, Two children's skeletal remains in badger hole, Apr'17 - ANCIENT

[desert-blue]

Thanks for mentioning that Carbuff. I was looking at those bones and thinking, "Those really don't look like a child's bones".

Yes, thank you Carbuff. I didn't realize until after I posted the link that the still image showing the "bin of bones" was going to be so prominently displayed. I guess that's what they call clickbait?

 

[Earth]

You don't think it could be Jennifer and Ashley Conroy from Missouri, do you? The timing's just about right.

 

[bflocket]

Yes cvaldez I have been thinking the SAME thing... and thinking Robert Evans like you said earlier..wow.. and Yes he was in Idaho in I believe 1987/88.. he left with a stolen car and was busted Nov of 88 in California.. so who is to say...

oh I just realized I have repeated what carbuff and kaylara owl said.. well yeah I guess we are all here on the same page!!

I wouldn't put any money on the remains being related Robert Evans just yet...
I was going to say, "unless he helped tip someone off about the remains," but forgot that he's been dead for as long as he's been dead. With the recent connection to the NH remains, I think that it would be a big (actually, gigantic) coincidence if they are related to Evans in any way.

Ted Bundy traveled all around the country and killed a lot of women on his path. There were many women killed in the area and time-frame of his journey that weren't killed by Bundy. The same goes with many people that Henry Lee Lucas actually "confessed" to killing. It eventually turned out that it was virtually impossible for him to have actually killed some (many?) of his claimed victims.


I didn't save the links, but I actually saw a few stories proposing that the remains could have been people that were travelling the Oregon Trail over a century ago. Hopefully, testing will soon give us a more precise time of death (along with sex/race/etc).


And I have a question that's not really off-topic, but related to the animals involved. I've lived all my life in Kentucky and figured that badgers lived at least somewhere in my state. They apparently don't. In fact, it doesn't look like they live anywhere in the South/Southeast US.

Would a badger hole be something akin to a "groundhog hole," like we have many of in my area?
Or would they have homes more like beavers (i.e. in/around water)?

And are badgers "hoarders?" By that, I mean would it be possible for the badgers to have come across the bones and they brought them to their den themselves? Or is it fairly certain that an actual person shoved the remains into the badger's hole? I just know there were "bones" there, but don't know how disarticulated they were.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I think that the bones were just in the way and the badger unearthed them.

 

[WesternArtist]

They haven't released the genders yet, have they?

Not that I know of. As a local on this case I have been in touch with the anthropologist doing the examination who has confirmed that it would be against policy for me to sit in on the process as a guest I may be able to get a copy of the data once everything is processed though. FYI I think the local news here is pretty bad. I usually find out what is going on throughout Idaho (even southern) sooner and in greater detail by following the Spokane news. JMO.

 

[LucyOso]

I'm really leaning towards these remains being from the Oregon Trail. Hopefully the carbon dating will help clear things up.

That is possible. They did note that the the site certainly was not native or older based on typical findings. It is possible they found items that indicate this is 15-20 years old...

 

[LucyOso]

Several cases come to mind...like Stephanie Crane and Amber Shawnell Hoopes. With the age difference. The timelines are different, but, it is possible they could have ended up finally buried together. It will be interesting to know the gender and dates. I do hope they test, if they can for relationship, like sibling/mother. I also think of cases like Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownsbey, where these could be totally unrelated children taken at different ages and something occurred to trigger the perp to end them both. And, parental abduction...or what appeared to be that...mom/or dad/child disappear. I definitely would love more information!


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/crane_stephanie.html

 

[WesternArtist]

Several cases come to mind...like Stephanie Crane and Amber Shawnell Hoopes. With the age difference. The timelines are different, but, it is possible they could have ended up finally buried together. It will be interesting to know the gender and dates. I do hope they test, if they can for relationship, like sibling/mother. I also think of cases like Shawn Hornbeck and Ben Ownsbey, where these could be totally unrelated children taken at different ages and something occurred to trigger the perp to end them both. And, parental abduction...or what appeared to be that...mom/or dad/child disappear. I definitely would love more information!


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/crane_stephanie.html

Great reference. Here's another link with many news archives about the Stephanie Crane and Amber Shawnell Hoopes cases: http://eastidahocoldcasesinc.com/eastcentral-idaho-missing-persons/stephanie-l-crane/

They're much earlier but it also reminds me of the Patricia Campbell and Tina Anderson cases, plus the skull found in Malad in 1986 that is still unidentified. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...983&highlight=Patricia+Campbell+Tina+Anderson
http://eastidahocoldcasesinc.com/attention-hunters-and-outdoorsman/tina-anderson-patricia-campbell/

 

[sw300]

I'm wondering if this could be one of those scenarios where the older UID child was abducted and held in captivity and became pregnant and gave birth and killed by her captor along with her child after a few years.

 

[desert-blue]

The burial site doesn't make a lot of sense for a criminal act, in my opinion. It's totally out in the open, not a tree in sight for miles, and it's desert - the ground is hard, dry, and rocky. There are businesses not too far away either (that would have been there in the 1980's and 1990's). It seems an unlikely choice to dig a grave and hide two bodies (there are much more secluded areas in the nearby mountains). Pioneers along the Oregon Trail would have had little choice in where to bury their loved ones - they could go a little ways off the beaten path, but probably not too far. There are trail ruts (still visible today) probably within 5 to 10 miles of this site. One route of the Oregon Trail crossed the Snake River at Glenns Ferry (famous "Three Island Crossing") and then went along the base of the mountains and into Boise. This route is not far from where the remains were found and makes more sense to me. Just my opinion, though.... could be totally wrong. Some of the other suggestions are certainly more interesting. The site is close to the Interstate (I-84) so I suppose someone in a hurry could have disposed of bodies in the middle of the night or something like that... I wonder how long it will take to get the radio carbon dating results.... I'm so anxious for this mystery to be solved!

 

[MOTORUNNER]

I think it would be very interesting if these bones were from the Oregon trail. Makes me really think, I remember I was reading through my ancestry, I found a letter someone had written at the time stating someone died on the farm and they buried them in a makeshift coffin by a river. I wonder if those bones have been dug up yet....

 

[Canhota]

I think it would be very interesting if these bones were from the Oregon trail. Makes me really think, I remember I was reading through my ancestry, I found a letter someone had written at the time stating someone died on the farm and they buried them in a makeshift coffin by a river. I wonder if those bones have been dug up yet....

I don't know about Oregon, but family cemeteries are found all over the rural south and many graves did not have headstones - sometimes graves were marked with rocks, or with cedar trees, or not at all (particularly in the slave cemeteries). And often, after 100 - 150 years of neglect, a headstone may not be visible or may not look like a headstone. Sometimes grave markers are even intentionally destroyed: I know of one cemetery where my relatives are buried that was razed by a farmer who owned the land and wanted to plant crops there, I know of another Plantation cemetery where a depression-era 'make-work' project was carried out and all of the stones/rocks marking the slave's graves were moved off-site and repurposed.

If this does turn out to be more historic in nature, I wonder if there may have been a homestead nearby or if these individuals were, in fact, Oregon Trail casualties. It's very possible that it was a marked grave at one point and that time or human intervention has obscured that fact. ETA: or badgers have obscured that fact, the wily little critters.


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[Canhota]

And I have a question that's not really off-topic, but related to the animals involved. I've lived all my life in Kentucky and figured that badgers lived at least somewhere in my state. They apparently don't. In fact, it doesn't look like they live anywhere in the South/Southeast US.

Would a badger hole be something akin to a "groundhog hole," like we have many of in my area?
Or would they have homes more like beavers (i.e. in/around water)?

And are badgers "hoarders?" By that, I mean would it be possible for the badgers to have come across the bones and they brought them to their den themselves? Or is it fairly certain that an actual person shoved the remains into the badger's hole? I just know there were "bones" there, but don't know how disarticulated they were.

Here's some relevant info, when this was first reported I'd imagined it was something like this - until they determined that there were two sets of remains.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-dig-it-badger-captured-on-camera-burying-cow



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[desert-blue]

I think it would be very interesting if these bones were from the Oregon trail. Makes me really think, I remember I was reading through my ancestry, I found a letter someone had written at the time stating someone died on the farm and they buried them in a makeshift coffin by a river. I wonder if those bones have been dug up yet....

I think it would be very interesting too if the remains are from the Oregon Trail (just a different kind of interesting, not related to criminal activity and therefore not the answer to any contemporary missing persons cases...). The history of the Oregon Trail is fascinating to me. It's hard to imagine the reality of uprooting and heading west through uncharted territory in hopes of a better life...the diseases and exhaustion, so much pain and suffering, both mental and physical... it was a treacherous trip which many didn't survive. Leaving loved ones behind must have been absolutely devastating. :-(

 

[MsFacetious]

I don't know what to hope for. It'd be nice to get an answer to an unsolved criminal case.... but I do think Oregon trail is far more likely.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Forgive my ignorance, but I just had to google Oregon Trail and now I'm confused. I thought these remains had only been in the badger hole for 15-20 years?

 

[Meryl12]

Forgive my ignorance, but I just had to google Oregon Trail and now I'm confused. I thought these remains had only been in the badger hole for 15-20 years?

That is what has been presumed so far.

 

[Alleykins]

Forgive my ignorance, but I just had to google Oregon Trail and now I'm confused. I thought these remains had only been in the badger hole for 15-20 years?

That's what was quoted in the media as an estimated TOD, however, the remains were found close to the Oregon Trail, so they are doing carbon dating on the remains to determine whether or not they're historical remains or much younger.

 

[Bit of hope]

There is no indication of clothing found with the remains. Makes me wonder.. could this be because the remains are even older than 15-20 years and all of the clothing is totally gone or were they buried without clothes. If this two people were indeed from the Oregon trail (we have to wait for the tests to know if this is possible) I don't think they were buried without clothes. Then again if they were homicide victims why burry them on that spot, along the road. Must me better places to hide bodies. Puzzles me....

 

[MsFacetious]

Actually I thought the Oregon trail might explain no clothes.
I would think they would want to reuse the clothes for others.
They weren't really in a position to dispose of anything then.