OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #26

[Betty P]

I remember that. I think it was because there were multiple officers responding at different times to different location. And none of the reports other than the 911 called identified the person the officer was speaking with.

It was more than that. There seemed to be a concerted effort on social media early in the case to distort information in order to cast suspicion on DR's sister, brother and father. It persisted for quite a long time, weeks. To a lesser degree, the "alternative facts" thing happened with the MJ grow ops, cockfighting, dog fighting, etc, even after LE dispelled many of those rumors. There's always a lot of rumor-mongering in social media after a high profile crime like this, but IMO, it was a little bigger in this case. JMO.

It still conflicts with LE messaging on the case. "We will hunt you down, we will find you." "...like slowly putting together pieces of a very big puzzle", decades of criminal activity, etc. If LE thought it was Dana's family who committed this crime, why would they still be talking about grow ops, complicated puzzles, hunting people down, etc.?

 

[Flatbush]

So even if they lost the actual devise, BCI would still have information this GPS recorded, yay!

 

[Curiosum]

Flagged down at 8:07 with JM refusing to enter Dana's house despite seeing her foot and hearing that poor baby crying.. By 8:14(3 minutes before the official discovery time) all bodies are discovered, JM has learned they are all dead reacted, has the presence of mine to call BJ have her react, and then likely she calls call Chelsea? Mighty quick if we are to believe this is the first time JM learns a huge chunk of his family has been slaughtered.

I was under the impression that BJM called Chelsea after she brought Chelsea's son out of the house. Heaven forbid my husband was murdered while I was at work and he was with our son, I would want someone to call me immediately as well. It is very possible that BJM's "they're all dead"referred to CR, FR, and HHG initially and then when Chelsea arrived she learned the true extent of the murders.

 

[Dudly]

Surprised and secretly pleased with myself if it turns out JM was involved. Back in August I picked up on something that pointed directly to him. I asked if anyone knew the earliest time he could know everyone was dead and IIRC no one had a guess. I wrote an entire post about why I asked but convinced myself I couldn't be right and probably had the timeline wrong so I didn't post it and just saved it my iPad. It bothered me for a few weeks so I decided to post again and once more felt bad for being so critical and there was probably an innocent explanation that I wasn't seeing so I didn't post it.

Anyway in light of recent events here is the post that left me so conflicted.



"I asked earlier about any guess on the earliest time JM would have known everyone was dead but there were no guesses. Here is why I asked (apologies if it was already asked)

From the interview with Frankie's ex:

She doesn’t have to look at her phone to recall that it was 8:14 a.m. on April 22 when she got the news. Her tall-for-his-age and tow-headed son Brentley, who turns 4 in September, was all right, the caller said, but his dad and all the other Rhodens she loved?

“They told me they’d all been murdered,” said Chelsea, 21. “I didn’t know what to believe. I just had to get there to see for myself.”




Who called Chelsea? The time of death (which is actually the time of discovery for Dana,Hanna May, and Chris by LE)Jr is 8:17. If someone called her at 8:14 and specifically told her everyone was dead how did they already know?

Now there could be an assumption on the part of James Manley that after finding what he did that something was terribly wrong.But I sincerely doubt that even with the strongest hunch you are not going to start spreading the news that an entire household has been murdered until you are sure.

So even if he called BJ to tell her what he found he isn't going to risk her letting Mr.Manley know that they are all dead if there is a 1% chance they aren't. For all they knew someone could be seriously injured or not even in the house. For instance there would have been a chance that Chris Jr. wasn't there since his car wasn't at Dana's it was at his father's.They knew nothing at the time that would let them know the time of death hence upon coming upon that scene at that time it wouldn't be far fetched to assume it was a very fresh crime scene and Chris Jr could have gotten a ride to school. Wouldn't any reasonable person be holding onto small hopes like that until they had to face the truth? Heck if it were me I'd be hoping maybe someone was kidnapped because in that moment anything would be better than them all being dead. Someone was too certain too soon that they were all dead.

So is it me or did someone majorly jump the gun in letting Chelsea know? Who made that call and why at 8:14 that morning were they confident enough to call Chelsea and tell her that not only were Frankie and Hannah dead but so were Dana,Chris Jr and Hanna May."

Clocks in the same home can be off that much between them. I have one that says 12:18, one 12:28 and one on a VCR that says 1:06 just in my living room.

 

[smc1225]

Flagged down at 8:07 with JM refusing to enter Dana's house despite seeing her foot and hearing that poor baby crying.. By 8:14(3 minutes before the official discovery time) all bodies are discovered, JM has learned they are all dead reacted, has the presence of mine to call BJ have her react, and then likely she calls call Chelsea? Mighty quick if we are to believe this is the first time JM learns a huge chunk of his family has been slaughtered.

BJM was at the 4077 residence and is the one that discovered the first two bodies and was the one who called 911 at 7:49am. Official discovery time is just when the police got there and noted the time. BJM and JM and I think LM were there prior to 7:49 am which is when the first call was placed.

I would bet that once BJM discovered the first bodies prior to the 911 call, the other two LM and JM went to the other house more than likely after she called them - either to let them know or check on them while BJM made the call.

No one knows who called Chelsea.

 

[Bootsctr]

Who called JW regarding the murders? Just curious about that phone call and the timing of it.

 

[Betty P]

Bringing this over from the Media & Timelines thread for this case

Link

Timeline:

2012 – AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site” in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306329-Media-amp-Timeline-NO-DISCUSSION-Pike-Co-OH-8-Family-Members-Murdered>


Feb 2016: Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation

10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"

4 days prior to murders: Hanna R gives birth

2 days prior to murders: Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5&p=12509140&posted=1#post12509140>

Thursday, 4/21/2016


8am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home

11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home



Friday, 4/22/2016

Between 12 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.
Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)
Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley
Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page55>


7:00 am: Bobby Jo arrives at Chris Sr.'s house. She tells LE she arrived alone.

7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>



7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 911 call.

8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>

8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>



12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>




1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/




Saturday, 4/23/2016

3:41am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned

??: Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler.

Note: This timeline was put together over a year ago. It hasn't been updated. If you have updates, additions, etc., please post and well create a new, updated version.

Thanks!

 

[Toralei]

Surprised and secretly pleased with myself if it turns out JM was involved. Back in August I picked up on something that pointed directly to him. I asked if anyone knew the earliest time he could know everyone was dead and IIRC no one had a guess. I wrote an entire post about why I asked but convinced myself I couldn't be right and probably had the timeline wrong so I didn't post it and just saved it my iPad. It bothered me for a few weeks so I decided to post again and once more felt bad for being so critical and there was probably an innocent explanation that I wasn't seeing so I didn't post it.

Anyway in light of recent events here is the post that left me so conflicted.



"I asked earlier about any guess on the earliest time JM would have known everyone was dead but there were no guesses. Here is why I asked (apologies if it was already asked)

From the interview with Frankie's ex:

She doesn’t have to look at her phone to recall that it was 8:14 a.m. on April 22 when she got the news. Her tall-for-his-age and tow-headed son Brentley, who turns 4 in September, was all right, the caller said, but his dad and all the other Rhodens she loved?

“They told me they’d all been murdered,” said Chelsea, 21. “I didn’t know what to believe. I just had to get there to see for myself.”




Who called Chelsea? The time of death (which is actually the time of discovery for Dana,Hanna May, and Chris by LE)Jr is 8:17. If someone called her at 8:14 and specifically told her everyone was dead how did they already know?

Now there could be an assumption on the part of James Manley that after finding what he did that something was terribly wrong.But I sincerely doubt that even with the strongest hunch you are not going to start spreading the news that an entire household has been murdered until you are sure.

So even if he called BJ to tell her what he found he isn't going to risk her letting Mr.Manley know that they are all dead if there is a 1% chance they aren't. For all they knew someone could be seriously injured or not even in the house. For instance there would have been a chance that Chris Jr. wasn't there since his car wasn't at Dana's it was at his father's.They knew nothing at the time that would let them know the time of death hence upon coming upon that scene at that time it wouldn't be far fetched to assume it was a very fresh crime scene and Chris Jr could have gotten a ride to school. Wouldn't any reasonable person be holding onto small hopes like that until they had to face the truth? Heck if it were me I'd be hoping maybe someone was kidnapped because in that moment anything would be better than them all being dead. Someone was too certain too soon that they were all dead.

So is it me or did someone majorly jump the gun in letting Chelsea know? Who made that call and why at 8:14 that morning were they confident enough to call Chelsea and tell her that not only were Frankie and Hannah dead but so were Dana,Chris Jr and Hanna May."

JM knew that the others were killed because BJM called him and had him check on DR.
A three-minute time difference could be chalked up to nothing more than phones showing different times, or perhaps Chelsea misremembering remembering it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but in my opinion a mere 3 minute time difference isn't that's suspicious given the complexity of this entire case.

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[Toralei]

I am confused about the GPS that got removed. Do these devices record in real time or do they record "within" themselves? Anyone familiar with the technology?

Also DR's brother talking to JW in the wee hours the night of murders? It is what it is! Now I can't speak for others, but that late, I don't call people. Might if I knew they were up (unlikely). Why would JW and DMs brother be on the phone so very late the night of these killings??

I'm confused about the GPS as well. One would think LE would know that it had been switched to a different vehicle or deactivated or suspicious that it wasn't moving.

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[molly1255]

With respect to JM's truck that LE recently placed the GPS tracing device on - do we know for a fact that JM owned that truck at the time of the Rhoden family murders? If he did, then he owned at least two trucks at the time of the homicide - the GPS truck and the truck that was towed by LE not long after the murders.

The media states the warrant stated the vehicle was used as a means of the commission of the crime’’ of aggravated murder. Or it was in the possession of another person with the intent to use the vehicle as a means of committing the crime, the warrant stated. It wasn't reported that the warrant was specific about which murder.

My thoughts are that if JM owned at least two trucks at the time of the Rhoden family murders, then the LM interview that I posted earlier this morning becomes a bit more bizarre to me. I'd assumed that LM was angry with LE for taking his son's only means of transportation. If JM had another vehicle to drive, and if LE took the truck because there was something illegal with the tags, and JM had another vehicle to drive, then why such anger? I realize other things with LE questioning them in the middle of the night had gone on, but LM was very focused on the truck that was towed to the point of saying he would start talking in a couple of hours and I took that to mean that he would talk if LE didn't give his son his truck back.

If JM only owned the towed vehicle at the time of the Rhoden murders and didn't own the truck that the GPS was placed on at that time, then there is another aggravated murder that LE is looking at.

 

[Audrey Horne]

In your opinion, under which circumstances two sides of a family would collude? To have a woman abandon her child, or force her to raise in a certain way. To murder her family when she disagrees.

It's quite common in parts of the world, like Afghanistan for example. Very rare in the western world. Nevertheless, it can occur. Think of how it could play in Southern Ohio.

I've been thinking about this since you posted it last night. I could imagine certain extremist groups doing such a thing. Some that almost certainly exist in rural Appalachia. Not saying it's the case here, just that some groups are willing to do just about anything when their beliefs are strong enough.

 

[Jennifer17]

Can we talk about what may have been a motive for KR's murder? And who may have done it for revenge for the other seven murders?

 

[Dudly]

With respect to JM's truck that LE recently placed the GPS tracing device on - do we know for a fact that JM owned that truck at the time of the Rhoden family murders? If he did, then he owned at least two trucks at the time of the homicide - the GPS truck and the truck that was towed by LE not long after the murders.

The media states the warrant stated the vehicle was used as a means of the commission of the crime&#8217;&#8217; of aggravated murder. Or it was in the possession of another person with the intent to use the vehicle as a means of committing the crime, the warrant stated. It wasn't reported that the warrant was specific about which murder.

My thoughts are that if JM owned at least two trucks at the time of the Rhoden family murders, then the LM interview that I posted earlier this morning becomes a bit more bizarre to me. I'd assumed that LM was angry with LE for taking his son's only means of transportation. If JM had another vehicle to drive, and if LE took the truck because there was something illegal with the tags, and JM had another vehicle to drive, then why such anger? I realize other things with LE questioning them in the middle of the night had gone on, but LM was very focused on the truck that was towed to the point of saying he would start talking in a couple of hours and I took that to mean that he would talk if LE didn't give his son his truck back.

If JM only owned the towed vehicle at the time of the Rhoden murders and didn't own the truck that the GPS was placed on at that time, then there is another aggravated murder that LE is looking at.

LM mentioned that JM's tools for his job were in the truck LE took. I think that is why he was so mad about it.

 

[Audrey Horne]

With respect to JM's truck that LE recently placed the GPS tracing device on - do we know for a fact that JM owned that truck at the time of the Rhoden family murders? If he did, then he owned at least two trucks at the time of the homicide - the GPS truck and the truck that was towed by LE not long after the murders.

The media states the warrant stated the vehicle was used as a means of the commission of the crime&#8217;&#8217; of aggravated murder. Or it was in the possession of another person with the intent to use the vehicle as a means of committing the crime, the warrant stated. It wasn't reported that the warrant was specific about which murder.

My thoughts are that if JM owned at least two trucks at the time of the Rhoden family murders, then the LM interview that I posted earlier this morning becomes a bit more bizarre to me. I'd assumed that LM was angry with LE for taking his son's only means of transportation. If JM had another vehicle to drive, and if LE took the truck because there was something illegal with the tags, and JM had another vehicle to drive, then why such anger? I realize other things with LE questioning them in the middle of the night had gone on, but LM was very focused on the truck that was towed to the point of saying he would start talking in a couple of hours and I took that to mean that he would talk if LE didn't give his son his truck back.

If JM only owned the towed vehicle at the time of the Rhoden murders and didn't own the truck that the GPS was placed on at that time, then there is another aggravated murder that LE is looking at.

I think you might be on to something. If they had reason to believe the truck was used during the murder, it makes me wonder: Where did JM get this truck and from whom? Might it be related to the car lot and businesses searched a few days ago? Who owned the truck before JM did? Why do law enforcement keep asking the family who paid them?

 

[Jennifer17]

I think you might be on to something. If they had reason to believe the truck was used during the murder, it makes me wonder: Where did JM get this truck and from whom? Might it be related to the car lot and businesses searched a few days ago? Who owned the truck before JM did? Why do law enforcement keep asking the family who paid them?

c
Could KR have been murdered in revenge, later that morning,because someone suspected that he might have been involved in the earlier seven murders?

 

[molly1255]

It was more than that. There seemed to be a concerted effort on social media early in the case to distort information in order to cast suspicion on DR's sister, brother and father. It persisted for quite a long time, weeks. To a lesser degree, the "alternative facts" thing happened with the MJ grow ops, cockfighting, dog fighting, etc, even after LE dispelled many of those rumors. There's always a lot of rumor-mongering in social media after a high profile crime like this, but IMO, it was a little bigger in this case. JMO.

It still conflicts with LE messaging on the case. "We will hunt you down, we will find you." "...like slowly putting together pieces of a very big puzzle", decades of criminal activity, etc. If LE thought it was Dana's family who committed this crime, why would they still be talking about grow ops, complicated puzzles, hunting people down, etc.?

I'm not so sure that LE thinks Dana's family committed the murders, but I do tend to believe they feel Dana's family has not been forthcoming with everything they know.

 

[Toralei]

I've been thinking about this since you posted it last night. I could imagine certain extremist groups doing such a thing. Some that almost certainly exist in rural Appalachia. Not saying it's the case here, just that some groups are willing to do just about anything when their beliefs are strong enough.

I was wondering this as well, just trying to figure out how to word the question without sounding all "conspiracy theory...." thanks!!

Here are the things I don't understand (a lot to be sure)
* I still don't understand why JW would have had to kill EVERYONE over a custody dispute.
An argument could be made that with no surviving immediate family, custody of BabyGirl1 (his biological child) would automatically fall to him, wouldnt it? So if his intended target was HMR's family, we're FR and HHG just in the wrong place? Why the overkill on CRSr?

Also, what about the 2 kids in custody of the state? Why couldn't HHG'S family take the son? And has paternity of the HMR's daughter been established? If so, where's the father? I thought THIS was the child JW was trying to get custody of. Again, why the overkill?

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[Toralei]

Can we talk about what may have been a motive for KR's murder? And who may have done it for revenge for the other seven murders?

You mean if KR killed the others and someone took him out as vengeance?

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[jk204]

I've been thinking about this since you posted it last night. I could imagine certain extremist groups doing such a thing. Some that almost certainly exist in rural Appalachia. Not saying it's the case here, just that some groups are willing to do just about anything when their beliefs are strong enough.

Yes. groups motivated by ideology/beliefs can keep a secret and they are very well organized.

 

[Jennifer17]

You mean if KR killed the others and someone took him out as vengeance?

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Or aided someone to kill them.