South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Galloway: So injuries on the face, back and leg unlikely to be self-inflicted? Dr Tiemensma confirms.

Head injuries could be blow to face or a fall.

Given Henri's plea explanation and photo of staircase - blood seen - would be area where he fell. Injuries consistent?

No. Superficial abrasions don't cause blood spots like that.

Unlikely that any of the wounds on the body could have resulted in the blood on the stairs.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-14-20170518
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 4m4 minutes ago

according to the accused plea explanation - shows photo of staircase - the top one to the left - blood stain
accused says he may have fell there - would that fit with the injuries reported by Albertse? No
No there is blood there - only open wounds was the abrasion on his back but that was very superficial not blood
like the stain on the picture so that blood wasn't caused by a fall on that spot
even his other cuts- there is mimimal blood - won't result in active oozing wounds
if you fell, it is unlikely that this abdominal wound would make contact with that area of the stair
How deep is wound? 10mm- it only penetrated the skin soft tissue and fat. Albertse described his weight so he must have a sturdy build and a fair amount of tissue there
this is on the left side below the spleen so it couldn't puncture an organ a deeper wound would have bled more
A wound would have to be atleast 40mm or more - just to go through the skin and tissue - not even to go into organs



@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1m1 minute ago

the second time that he possibly fell on the same stairs was possibly due to a black out - do u still say no injuries
resulting from a fall- no I am not saying the injuries could have been sustained from a fall on the stairs
I am saying that his injuries wouldn't have resulted in that blood loss

possible he couldve fallen abrasions on back and blunt force may have resulted from that but not that blood spot

would wounds lead to losing consciousness- he didnt lose enough blood he couldn't have fainted from blood loss

Maybe shock - you could faint but not for a long time, when you faint after emotional shock normally after

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda


(the abrasions on his back were probably sustained after his father forced him up against the wall to take the axe, already massively injured though :()
 
Knife wound penetrated skin. He is sturdy. Knife wound not very deep.

How deep would it have to be to get through skin and tissue? At least 40mm or more, Dr Tiemensma says.

Injuries consistent with second fall on stairs? Could be, Dr Tiemensma says.

He could have fallen, abrasions and lacerations.

I don't think he lost a lot of blood, tiny amount not enough to go into shock. I don't think he would have fainted due to blood loss. Don't expect him to be out for hours.


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-14-20170518
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

You found his finger prints on various areas around the house, you found marli's finger prints at Henri's patio door
B-fact that you find people who live in the house's finger prints doesn't mean anything? Correct
B- you get usable and not usable prints. what is negative? O-print 19 is negative. To show the court that there isn't a print on something
Whose finger print did you find in exhibit which was n Rudi's room - it was unidentified person. It could have been
a friend, visitor, a lot of possibilities of whom that may have belonged to
You found finger prints on the frame of bathroom door- I couldn't identify who that was
mentions another instance of a finger print he identified but didnt know who it belonged to
On table in kitchen you found a finger print but couldn't say whose it was- yes
Marli's finger print you had a set of finger print samples from her? Yes
so my elimination included Marli's finger prints
in the kitchen you found a palm print you couldn't identify. B-could it have been new, the domestic worker? yes
Click to expand...

Surely they would have taken the palm print/fingerprints of the domestic worker and any other known visitors, eg friends of the children and other family members. I don't know how long they had been living in the house at that time but I imagine there would have been workmen in and out decorating etc. Did they search for disposed gloves, eg the very thin stretchy type? I would like to think they did but somehow I doubt whether the searches were much more than superficial according to the evidence so far.
 
Defence will have this witness on the stand for days.
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 4m4 minutes ago @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

falling blood would go back into head and you would wake up

And the head wound? I don't think so Albertse never reported signs of concussion
you said Dr Albertse didnt mention any signs re his consciousness
given that the accused remembers certain detail vividly and then apparently misspelt things in google

When I read plea it seemed some detail uncertain but some info is very detailed its interesting how selective the
witness is now given a view on the credibility of my client's plea

Adv Botha - what she is saying we have never heard before - We are at a serious disadvantage

Desai says no you are not disadvantaged if you want to postpone to consider anything I will give you a week

Adv B now says that we are being ambushed Desai says were is this coming from I believe maximum discovery took place
Adv B- We are hearing expert evidence on issues with have not been disclosed, we haven't received this before
 
Bruising and injury may have caused a mild concussion.

Dr Tiemensma has read Henri's plea explanation. Galloway says he could recall certain details vividly, but couldn't correctly type words in a Google search.

Dr Tiemensma says it was quite obvious some details were described in detail, others not. Says it interesting how "selective" it was.


http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-14-20170518
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 4m4 minutes ago

Desai - immediately after this witness finishes I will adjourn to give you time to consider her evidence all you are saying is that some of her evidence wasn't foreshadowed in her report. Evidence now premised on your
clients plea explanation. SO I offer you a week, if necessary to prepare
its pointless raising issues which can be remedied, I will remedy any defects you may argue u face
Desai I come from an era where there was no discovery today we have constitution and access to documents
you must accept it to be amplified but I don't think you can use the word "ambush" not fair

SG I just want to place on record, I don't understand the putting the accused's plea explanation to witness when

it relates to the the accused's injuries. SG then notes that Botha won't hand over his expert's reports

Adv Botha- are you directing me to hand over my expert reports? J Desai - not directing you but facilitate

Adv Botha - I am not in possession of any expert reports right now. Judge Desai ok that ends the matter
SG continues after that little intermission which was very enjoyable to witness


@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Botha has forgotten HvB's story. Galloway should pick him up on that!
Click to expand...

Galloway is giving this case away, unless she has some irrefutable evidence that will astound the court she is being negligent IMO.

I have wondered whether there is some really good evidence in the pipeline, eg blood splatters on his clothes etc and she thinks that will convict him without having to argue all the minor points. I can only hope so. At times I think this must be the case because Botha is being pedantic about minor points in order to attempt to give his case some relevance. We can only hope so.
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1m1 minute ago

SG refers to photographs Dr Marianne was shown re injuries on the hands of Marli Van Breda
Marli's hand wounds you can see sharp force injury to left wrist typical place for defense injury passive defense

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
 
Interested Bystander said:
Galloway is giving this case away, unless she has some irrefutable evidence that will astound the court she is being negligent IMO.

I have wondered whether there is some really good evidence in the pipeline, eg blood splatters on his clothes etc and she thinks that will convict him without having to argue all the minor points. I can only hope so. At times I think this must be the case because Botha is being pedantic about minor points in order to attempt to give his case some relevance. We can only hope so.
Click to expand...

Yep, Botha is so desperate.

The wheels are starting to fall off Botha's shakey little trolley. SG's a dark horse, I think. I hope she can keep it up. Botha is withholding information from the state and accuses her of the same. Botha is ambushed, ha! Martin, Teresa, Rudi and Marli were ambushed by HvB!!
 
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 7m7 minutes ago

if someone is warding off an attack
refers to other injuries on Marli's hands - typical defense and it may even be active defense of fighting back she
then gestures a punching movement - as active defense injury
injury on the calf of Marli, hesitant to comment due to the quality of the photo
Dr Marianne, in her evidence in chief is displaying the professionalism one would expect from a witness
I think Adv Botha got his knickers in a knot because she is good and her evidence will be tough to test

Adv Botha now says that he arranged for his pathologist to be in court when SG's pathologist testifies next week
This witness is a pathologist too and now giving that type of evidence
Judge Desai says I think it is fair that he be allowed to have his expert in court. He says I have stood where you
are standing and I know you can't cross examine an expert if you don't have your own expert in court

Jude Desai says Adv Botha is entitled to have his expert present regardless of how it affects delays in trials
Adv B I told SG that my expert would be in court on Tuesday and we went back and forth on their respective calendars
and we then agreed when he would be in court. If she had told me this expert is going to give evidence on pathology
then I would have made a plan. This expert didnt deal with pathology in her report its not just an amplification
What do you want Adv B? I want an adjournment right now to phone and arrange with my expert

Judge Desai - lets not apportion blame, lets remedy this situation

Judge Desai stands the matter down so the state and the defense can call their experts and schedule dates and times

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 4m4 minutes ago

snipped for focus

SG then notes that Botha won't hand over his expert's reports

Adv Botha- are you directing me to hand over my expert reports? J Desai - not directing you but facilitate

Adv Botha - I am not in possession of any expert reports right now.
Click to expand...

Of course you're not. What a whoppa. What do they have in their cases of files then, toilet paper?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 168 more.
Total: 3,701 (members: 169, guests: 3,532)

Online statistics

Members online
169
Guests online
3,532
Total visitors
3,701
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,511
Messages
17,970,133
Members
228,790
Latest member
MelonyAnn
Back
Top