IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #61

[Blue Amethyst]

This wanted man was arrested in Kokomo on Feb 16, 2017. It could have been one of the arrests the LE were speaking about.

http://www.wthr.com/article/man-wan...ser censored*-drug-charges-arrested-in-kokomo

 

[Burnt Toast]

Thanks for the responses BT. I believe it is significant it is not available now. Not for the killer's knowledge but for others not to be aware.

Re the alibi - fish.

Re the other question, I cannot see the logic in forcing the girls across the freezing creek (how was that achieved?) for them to then be hit over the head. Unless there were more than one assailant.

Re. The SK speculation. The article you linked is nearly two months out of date and TOS allows us to speculate.

Also, talking LE and speculation, what do you think has held up the forensics discussed a few weeks ago?

AJMHO

we don't know that the forensic testing is being held up. it may be back. i would not expect LE to tell us the results prior to an arrest. i don't know what they would have to gain by doing so.

of course people can speculate about a SK. i however just don't see it.

LE has never said that the fish alibi checked out. RL is the one who said he went to lafayette for a fish, not LE. given that he has lied during the course of the investigation, i take his statement with a grain of salt until i hear it from LE.

 

[Peace777]

This wanted man was arrested in Kokomo on Feb 16, 2017. It could have been one of the arrests the LE were speaking about.

http://www.wthr.com/article/man-wan...ser censored*-drug-charges-arrested-in-kokomo

Sure is scary isn't it all these weirdos and a fire bug out on the loose in and around the Indiana area (LE has a lot to contend with it seems)? And most of them have some type of drug charge also. I hope BG is caught soon, "today's the day" JMO

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Thanks for the responses BT. I believe it is significant it is not available now. Not for the killer's knowledge but for others not to be aware.

Re the alibi - fish.

Re the other question, I cannot see the logic in forcing the girls across the freezing creek (how was that achieved?) for them to then be hit over the head. Unless there were more than one assailant.

Re. The SK speculation. The article you linked is nearly two months out of date and TOS allows us to speculate.

Also, talking LE and speculation, what do you think has held up the forensics discussed a few weeks ago?

AJMHO

This is gonna sound odd... nor do I even like to bring it up. (Plus, I know next to nothing about these type of crimes). But a SA outside in 40+ degree weather just sounds odd. But it could be normal, I guess. Key word 'guess'.
Pretty sure, though, this type of crime is usually a SA but that doesn't make it one, I guess. Key word again 'guess'.
There was an awesome video by Julie on here yesterday. I watched all of the retracing(s) by googling. There is a path running below the bridge. One theory has been that a car was used to get around the creek. But I have absolutely no idea as to where that path goes.
But whatever/whoever he is, it's pure evil. Sad (almost) for him. Many people think that kind of monster will face a judgment day some day. I know I'm all for it. Actually tears running down my face because it's sickening what some people do.



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[Hatfield]

I found some more....my eyes are swimming...I did not mean to look through the Missing Children database! I don't know how many faces I saw...so very sad for me to see.

Anyway this is all the rest that has been reported to that missing child website....take it for what it's worth. I had hoped to put it in some kind of order...maybe tomorrow when my eyes stop seeing 13's!!

I have them in order now, I believe......

5/13/72 JUDY DAVIS (15)JACKSONVILLE FL
2/13/73 LINDA ST. GERMAINE (12) PLATTSBURGH NY
6/13/80 TIFFANY PAPISH (8) MAPLE HTS OH
6/13/81 PHYLLIS BREWER (19) LOWELLVILLE OH
11/13/84 TAMMY BELANGER (8) EXETER, NH
8/13/85 CATHERINE MALCOLMSON (16) STOW MA
4/13/86 PAMELA TINSLEY (19) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
7/13/86 ROCHELLE IHM (20) PHOENIX AZ
12/13/86 APRIL COOPER (7) TEMECULAH CA
2/13/87 MARJORIE KNOX (13) CHAPARRAL NM
10/13/89 SHERI HERR (18) WARREN IN
9/13/90 LISA PRUET (16) SHAKER HTS OHIO
10/13/90 MARIA MARTINEZ (17) PHOENIX AZ
3/13/95 STEPHANIE BENTON (17) BULLHEAD CITY AZ
1/13/96 AMBER HAGERMAN (9) ARLINGTON TX
6/13/96 CRYSTAL DITTMEYER (12) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
10/13/97 AMANDA GALLION (1 MONTH PAST 13) GILLETTE WY
11/13/01 AMANDA LEE VANSCYOC (19) EVANSVILLE IN
11/13/01 ABBY BLAGG (6) GRAND JUNCTION CO
9/13/07 ASHLEY DODGES (17) BISHOP CA
9/13/10 SAMANTHA CLARKE(19) ORANGE VA
4/13/13 EMILY PAUL (14) SOUTHPORT FL
7/13/14 EDITH CUELLAR (15) CANYON COUNTRY CA
5/13/15 NATALIE CLARK (16) LOUISVILLE KY
12/13/15 ASHLEY WOODS (16) JACKSON MS
3/13/16 HALEY STRAATMAN (16) MILTON FL
4/13/16 SARAH NECAISE (16) BAY ST LOUIS MS
7/13/16 DEJA GLEASON (13) THORNTON CO
9/13/16 ALEXIS MILLS (16) COLUMBUS OH
1/13/17 HAILEE DILEONARDO (15) KLAMATH FALLS OREGON

Amazing and good work.

If we have a real SK that was involked in our Delphi case then we suspected his job may have brought him to the area.

So I was thinking if any of these are related or another SK then what job was in those exact cities at those dates. Can we identify a certain job that was going on that can link two or more of these cities on these dates.

For example there was mention of road work going on in the other Iowa case of the two girls being killed in remote area. And I seem to recall someone mentioning road work may have been going on in IN at time of our case.

So if we could ever link a specific company that was in these cities on those exact times then it may help narrow it down to a person eventually.

We know these all will not be related but if we can just link up a few of them to a single company it could help identify a SK.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Re the alibi - I know RL has said he was buying fish during the crime. Has LE verified this alibi? If so, please provide proof as I must have missed that. TIA.

Re The SK speculation - With as little information available to the public as there is, speculation about ANY scenario seems to me to be on the table. This would include the SK angle even though LE has stated there is no evidence pointing to a SK. Yes that was some time ago, but I am not aware of LE reversing that statement since.

Speculation re RL should also be on the table even though LE has stated he is not a suspect (and have not given a name of any suspect or POI - BG excluded, but we don't know his name). LE has, however, said RL's story didn't "add up" and has stated he is still "involved in the investigation". A broad reaching probable cause SW was executed on his home and property and his truck was seized and confiscated during that search. Each of us may interpret these statements and read into LE's actions differently. I do find RL's punishment for his probation violations very heavy handed considering his age, the nature and severity of those violations, and the circumstances that brought to light those violations (two murder victims found on his property). I also find it curious that if LE believes RL had nothing to do with these murders that they would not publicly clear him as it seems to me this ordeal has to be having a devastating affect on his life. He is now in prison and there is a very real possibility he could lose his farm by not being able to meet the terms of his reverse mortgage. Maybe LE just doesn't like him, maybe its part of their strategy to catch the real killer(s), maybe they suspect he is involved somehow... LE isn't saying.

LE has never verified RL's statement. the fish trip could have been what he lied about.

 

[Hatfield]

All JMO
There was a news interview I can vaguely recall where I think the reporter asked him when he found out the girls were missing or they asked him when he found out they had been found.

I am real curious when exactly he found out both of those things because I am wondering if he left after either one of those things because was just thinking that if you were in that situation and found out either of those news pieces then I would think you would want to be home helping or watching all the action.

The only thing that would make me want to leave is if I had a doctor appointment or something I could not miss. I would not leave for a casual reason with all that news breaking on or near my property.
Either before or after they were found. He may have not left. I dont know.

To be clear I dont know if he did leave after either one of those things or not. I would like to find that news interview to find the question that was asked and it may help.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Amazing and good work.

If we have a real SK that was involked in our Delphi case then we suspected his job may have brought him to the area.

So I was thinking if any of these are related or another SK then what job was in those exact cities at those dates. Can we identify a certain job that was going on that can link two or more of these cities on these dates.

For example there was mention of road work going on in the other Iowa case of the two girls being killed in remote area. And I seem to recall someone mentioning road work may have been going on in IN at time of our case.

So if we could ever link a specific company that was in these cities on those exact times then it may help narrow it down to a person eventually.

We know these all will not be related but if we can just link up a few of them to a single company it could help identify a SK.

If he is a serial killer he could be unemployed and the randomness of all the locations shows he likes to travel long distances. It has served him well so far since he hasn't been arrested but that doesn't mean he's not on the LE radar now because he finally screwed up and LE has his picture and voice.

 

[Confusion]

I don't know if 13 is relevant but I have a suspicion Amber Hagerman (on 13th) may be a connection and the 13th for Iowa and Indiana were just a taunt for police. For having an Amber Alert started after your crime makes you pretty notorious!

When I was looking into JW, I had found 4 or 5 in areas he was living who died on the 13th, but hadn't checked other places (and one of them who had lived near him was in her 20s.) I doubt if the entire list is connected to one person, but I wouldn't be surprised if several of them are. Thanks for doing the research. MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hmm, seems the description of "Cast Iron" alibi might be an over characterization IMO. His "claims" of an alibi do not make them "Cast Iron" IMO.

But, enough of RL. Any more on a possible SK angle? The 13th pattern is an interesting thought IMO. I don't subscribe to that theory, but its intersting to me non the less.

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Cast iron alibi is tongue in cheek. He hardly would give himself up as driving when he didnt have too. I would think as the girls were on his property he would have had to provide his whereabouts for 24 hours from 1pm on 13th onwards I would think. In providing that alibi he violated his probation. TOD could have been 3 p.m. for all we know so only the fish trip returning at 6.30 p.m. is known about by us. Ive seen no evidence he lied or was charged with lying. As he has not been charged with anything relating to the murders, imo his alibi is cast iron because he checked out for the period 0230 pm till the TOD, which could have been as short a period as 10 minutes or as long as 9.5 hours up to midnight that day.

 

[Burnt Toast]

All JMO
There was a news interview I can vaguely recall where I think the reporter asked him when he found out the girls were missing or they asked him when he found out they had been found.

I am real curious when exactly he found out both of those things because I am wondering if he left after either one of those things because was just thinking that if you were in that situation and found out either of those news pieces then I would think you would want to be home helping or watching all the action.

The only thing that would make me want to leave is if I had a doctor appointment or something I could not miss. I would not leave for a casual reason with all that news breaking on or near my property.
Either before or after they were found. He may have not left. I dont know.

To be clear I dont know if he did leave after either one of those things or not. I would like to find that news interview to find the question that was asked and it may help.

he said he was in lafayette to buy a fish and found out the girl's were missing when he got home and was asked if it was okay to search his property. the following day he "claimed" to be in delphi the day the girl's were found and that he first learned when he got home. the thing about people who lie it becomes difficult to believe them when they tell the truth.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iberty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-61/page63

Thank you, Kat!


Saturday 5/13/72 JUDY DAVIS (15)JACKSONVILLE FL
Tuesday 2/13/73 LINDA ST. GERMAINE (12) PLATTSBURGH NY
Friday 6/13/80 TIFFANY PAPISH (8) MAPLE HTS OH
Saturday 6/13/81 PHYLLIS BREWER (19) LOWELLVILLE OH
Tuesday 11/13/84 TAMMY BELANGER (8) EXETER, NH
Tuesday 8/13/85 CATHERINE MALCOLMSON (16) STOW MA
Sunday 4/13/86 PAMELA TINSLEY (19) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
Sunday 7/13/86 ROCHELLE IHM (20) PHOENIX AZ
Saturday 12/13/86 APRIL COOPER (7) TEMECULAH CA
Friday 2/13/87 MARJORIE KNOX (13) CHAPARRAL NM
Friday 10/13/89 SHERI HERR (18) WARREN IN
Thursday 9/13/90 LISA PRUET (16) SHAKER HTS OHIO
Saturday 10/13/90 MARIA MARTINEZ (17) PHOENIX AZ
Monday 3/13/95 STEPHANIE BENTON (17) BULLHEAD CITY AZ
Saturday 1/13/96 AMBER HAGERMAN (9) ARLINGTON TX
Thursday 6/13/96 CRYSTAL DITTMEYER (12) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
Monday 10/13/97 AMANDA GALLION (1 MONTH PAST 13) GILLETTE WY
Tuesday 11/13/01 AMANDA LEE VANSCYOC (19) EVANSVILLE IN
Tuesday 11/13/01 ABBY BLAGG (6) GRAND JUNCTION CO
Thursday 9/13/07 ASHLEY DODGES (17) BISHOP CA
Monday 9/13/10 SAMANTHA CLARKE(19) ORANGE VA
Saturday 4/13/13 EMILY PAUL (14) SOUTHPORT FL
Sunday 7/13/14 EDITH CUELLAR (15) CANYON COUNTRY CA
Wednesday 5/13/15 NATALIE CLARK (16) LOUISVILLE KY
Sunday 12/13/15 ASHLEY WOODS (16) JACKSON MS
Sunday 3/13/16 HALEY STRAATMAN (16) MILTON FL
Wednesday 4/13/16 SARAH NECAISE (16) BAY ST LOUIS MS
Wednesday 7/13/16 DEJA GLEASON (13) THORNTON CO
Tuesday 9/13/16 ALEXIS MILLS (16) COLUMBUS OH
Friday 1/13/17 HAILEE DILEONARDO (15) KLAMATH FALLS OREGON

3x Monday
6x Tuesday
3x Wednesday
3x Thursday
4x Friday
6x Saturday
5x Sunday
____
30 missing girls

States

3x Arizona
3x California
2x Colorado
3x Florida
2x Indiana
1x Kentucky
1x Massachusetts
2x Mississippi
1x New Hampshire
1x New Mexico
1x New York
4x Ohio
2x Oklahoma
1x Oregon
1x Texas
1x Virginia
1x Wyoming
_____
30x missing girls

-.-.-.-
Btw: When I heard of "road construction" then I immediately thought of never discoverable bodies ...

 

[Brighty]

I found some more....my eyes are swimming...I did not mean to look through the Missing Children database! I don't know how many faces I saw...so very sad for me to see.

Anyway this is all the rest that has been reported to that missing child website....take it for what it's worth. I had hoped to put it in some kind of order...maybe tomorrow when my eyes stop seeing 13's!!

I have them in order now, I believe......

5/13/72 JUDY DAVIS (15)JACKSONVILLE FL
2/13/73 LINDA ST. GERMAINE (12) PLATTSBURGH NY
6/13/80 TIFFANY PAPISH (8) MAPLE HTS OH
6/13/81 PHYLLIS BREWER (19) LOWELLVILLE OH
11/13/84 TAMMY BELANGER (8) EXETER, NH
8/13/85 CATHERINE MALCOLMSON (16) STOW MA
4/13/86 PAMELA TINSLEY (19) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
7/13/86 ROCHELLE IHM (20) PHOENIX AZ
12/13/86 APRIL COOPER (7) TEMECULAH CA
2/13/87 MARJORIE KNOX (13) CHAPARRAL NM
10/13/89 SHERI HERR (18) WARREN IN
9/13/90 LISA PRUET (16) SHAKER HTS OHIO
10/13/90 MARIA MARTINEZ (17) PHOENIX AZ
3/13/95 STEPHANIE BENTON (17) BULLHEAD CITY AZ
1/13/96 AMBER HAGERMAN (9) ARLINGTON TX
6/13/96 CRYSTAL DITTMEYER (12) OKLAHOMA CITY OK
10/13/97 AMANDA GALLION (1 MONTH PAST 13) GILLETTE WY
11/13/01 AMANDA LEE VANSCYOC (19) EVANSVILLE IN
11/13/01 ABBY BLAGG (6) GRAND JUNCTION CO
9/13/07 ASHLEY DODGES (17) BISHOP CA
9/13/10 SAMANTHA CLARKE(19) ORANGE VA
4/13/13 EMILY PAUL (14) SOUTHPORT FL
7/13/14 EDITH CUELLAR (15) CANYON COUNTRY CA
5/13/15 NATALIE CLARK (16) LOUISVILLE KY
12/13/15 ASHLEY WOODS (16) JACKSON MS
3/13/16 HALEY STRAATMAN (16) MILTON FL
4/13/16 SARAH NECAISE (16) BAY ST LOUIS MS
7/13/16 DEJA GLEASON (13) THORNTON CO
9/13/16 ALEXIS MILLS (16) COLUMBUS OH
1/13/17 HAILEE DILEONARDO (15) KLAMATH FALLS OREGON

A little information about 2/13/87 Marjorie Knox 13 Chaparral, NM.: LE is or was convinced she was murdered by serial killer David Leonard Wood who is still on death row in Texas, been on death row since 1993. Marjorie or her remains have never been located though the women/girls DLW was convicted of murdering were found in a common area buried in shallow graves in the desert outside El Paso, TX. It could well be that DLW is not responsible for the disappearance of Marjorie Knox.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Cast iron alibi is tongue in cheek. He hardly would give himself up as driving when he didn't have too. I would think as the girls were on his property he would have had to provide his whereabouts for 24 hours from 1pm on 13th onwards I would think. In providing that alibi he violated his probation. TOD could have been 3 p.m. for all we know so only the fish trip returning at 6.30 p.m. is known about by us. Ive seen no evidence he lied or was charged with lying. As he has not been charged with anything relating to the murders, imo his alibi is cast iron because he checked out for the period 0230 pm till the TOD, which could have been as short a period as 10 minutes or as long as 9.5 hours up to midnight that day.

LE said he is was not "truthful". that is lying. a lie is a statement made to deceive. that is what he did. he told LE A,B,C and they found out that D,E, F was the truth.

this was talked about in depth a few weeks ago here. i know a member provided you with the link with a statement from LE that he was not truthful. they also provided you with a link that showed that charges of providing false information and obstruction of justice were dropped in exchange for his plea in his probation violation.

had he told them the truth from the get go i think he would have been in violation of his probation at that time and not weeks later.

definition of a lie in depth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

 

[Hatfield]

he said he was in lafayette to buy a fish and found out the girl's were missing when he got home and was asked if it was okay to search his property. the following day he "claimed" to be in delphi the day the girl's were found and that he first learned when he got home. the thing about people who lie it becomes difficult to believe them when they tell the truth.

JMO
Thanks. Thats about right and what I recall too. If I find the particular interview where one of the questions was asked of him I will link it.

The trip to Delphi is of most interest because if he knew the night before searching was going on near his property then what was so important to have to leave and not want to stay around to watch all the search action or even help with the search.

I know some may not be in the best health to be able to help with the search that early morning but I would have thought staying around to watch all the action would be a normal reaction.

Everyone is different I guess and maybe he did have something important to do in Delphi.

 

[Burnt Toast]

JMO
Thanks. Thats about right and what I recall too. If I find the particular interview where one of the questions was asked of him I will link it.

The trip to Delphi is of most interest because if he knew the night before searching was going on near his property then what was so important to have to leave and not want to stay around to watch all the search action or even help with the search.

I know some may not be in the best health to be able to help with the search that early morning but I would have thought staying around to watch all the action would be a normal reaction.

Everyone is different I guess and maybe he did have something important to do in Delphi.

he says it in his interview with inside edition.

 

[Confusion]

All JMO
There was a news interview I can vaguely recall where I think the reporter asked him when he found out the girls were missing or they asked him when he found out they had been found.

I am real curious when exactly he found out both of those things because I am wondering if he left after either one of those things because was just thinking that if you were in that situation and found out either of those news pieces then I would think you would want to be home helping or watching all the action.

The only thing that would make me want to leave is if I had a doctor appointment or something I could not miss. I would not leave for a casual reason with all that news breaking on or near my property.
Either before or after they were found. He may have not left. I dont know.

To be clear I dont know if he did leave after either one of those things or not. I would like to find that news interview to find the question that was asked and it may help.

I believe it was when he got home from Lafayette about 6:30 Monday night that he learned that they were missing, and Tuesday afternoon when he got home from Delphi that he learned they had been found.

If he is a serial killer he could be unemployed and the randomness of all the locations shows he likes to travel long distances. It has served him well so far since he hasn't been arrested but that doesn't mean he's not on the LE radar now because he finally screwed up and LE has his picture and voice.

He wouldn't have to be unemployed to be in all of those places. I know there are several jobs that require a lot of travel (I've been offered more than one), some would even include overseas travel - which could account for some of the gaps in the murders found. Some of them are safety engineer (goes to different industrial plants to help make them safer), construction worker, surveyors, entertainers and their road crews, some utility workers (building, maintaining and repairing gas lines, etc.), OTR truckers, pilots and other flight crew, sales, train engineer & other workers, private investigator, bounty hunter, and probably many more I'm missing.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I believe it was when he got home from Lafayette about 6:30 Monday night that he learned that they were missing, and Tuesday afternoon when he got home from Delphi that he learned they had been found.

He wouldn't have to be unemployed to be in all of those places. I know there are several jobs that require a lot of travel (I've been offered more than one), some would even include overseas travel - which could account for some of the gaps in the murders found. Some of them are safety engineer (goes to different industrial plants to help make them safer), construction worker, surveyors, entertainers and their road crews, some utility workers (building, maintaining and repairing gas lines, etc.), OTR truckers, pilots and other flight crew, sales, train engineer & other workers, private investigator, bounty hunter, and probably many more I'm missing.

also a retiree from any occupation.

 

[Burnt Toast]

JMO
Thanks. Thats about right and what I recall too. If I find the particular interview where one of the questions was asked of him I will link it.

The trip to Delphi is of most interest because if he knew the night before searching was going on near his property then what was so important to have to leave and not want to stay around to watch all the search action or even help with the search.

I know some may not be in the best health to be able to help with the search that early morning but I would have thought staying around to watch all the action would be a normal reaction.

Everyone is different I guess and maybe he did have something important to do in Delphi.

RL had zero problems traipsing around his property for reporters.

 

[kstephens98]

LE had zero problems traipsing around his property for reporters.

I think you mean RL?

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