JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

I wonder what kind of cane?

0277

1 and this picture was taken?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: It looks like this cane
3 has been moved. It's hard to tell from the
4 picture.
5 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE)
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It looks like those little
7 marks
8 are right on the heel in the back hallway.
 
What if the weapon was something else other than the torch or a golf club or baseball bat? The fingerprints if they were purposefully removed from the torch could have been removed for a different reason than it being the weapon that was used to fracture JBR's skull?
Would whoever delivered that blow to JBR's head really leave that weapon laying around in plain sight or would they have got rid of it altogether? From what i have seen the wound to the bone was an elliptical shape which can also happen when someone is hit in the head with a hammer. It could even have been something similar and heavy and made of metal. I don't really think there is any way of determining exactly what that weapon was because a variety of different weapons could of been used to incur such an injury.
 
singularity,

JonBenet, Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation, excerpt


The flashlight need not be the blunt force weapon, just about anything heavy enough close to hand would have injured JonBenet. Knowing it was the flashlight does not advance you very far since anyone could have used it.

What is more important is identifying where the primary crime-scene was located?

.

BBM

Agree! The urine stain on the basement carpet in direct proximity to Patsy's painting tray/ tote is a very good indication of a possible main crime-scene. I still doubt a flashlight was involved in hitting Jonbenet. Too much flashlight talk going on (Burk's DP interview), a wiped clean flashlight conveniently found on a kitchen counter/ table area. I don't buy it. The usage of the flashlight would also narrow down the position of where the attacker would have to be standing during the attack, mainly towards the back of JBR. That may be the opposite of what happened. A flashlight would also serve as a main "tool" of any intruder that night. I believe it was wiped down - all parts- and staged. I am curious, how an intruder already knew they would leave the flashlight behind and then stumble away into the dark basement, through a dark window, into a dark alley. Great night vision. Why bring the flashlight at all then..

Going back to a golf club as potential weapon. Depending on how the golf club would be held and how tall the individual using it would be, JBR could have been hit on the head from the front or the back IMO. I do not play golf and do not have a chance to check it, so I hope someone had already checked it out or is willing to do so ( placing the club iron softly..;--)? Thanks!

One scenario I could come up instantly is BR? trying to open the top Wine Cellar lock with a golf iron intending to check out the left over gifts inside that room, JBR gets in the way, a fight breaks out. Whatever happened, it most likely did not happen inside that WC. Again, the urine stain may be a clue here. Was it confirmed, that it was indeed a urine stain? Whose urine was it?

The question in addition to the location of the main crime scene is, what was going on right that moment, during which the attacker was holding an object or was close enough to grabbing an object suitable of applying JBR's head injury?

-Nin
 
I am BDI and JR covered up setting up PR.

But anyway in regards to the Maglite. If BR and JonBenet did not turn on any lights which imho they did not so they would have used a flashlight to see. Just saying it was handy when JonBenet may have ticked off Burke. So I can see one leaning toward flashlight imho.
 
I am BDI and JR covered up setting up PR.

But anyway in regards to the Maglite. If BR and JonBenet did not turn on any lights which imho they did not so they would have used a flashlight to see. Just saying it was handy when JonBenet may have ticked off Burke. So I can see one leaning toward flashlight imho.

In that case BR may have used JR's flashlight from when he brought BR back to bed after helping him to finish building the boy's Christmas toy (Lego), according to JR. JR may have left the light in BR's bedroom. But then, why would BR sneak out again? Did JBR move over to his room after changing her clothes due to a bed accident and then they both decided to have a late night's snack?

That is possible of course. A red flag just goes up for me, when an inside and outside wiped clean possible murder weapon is presented like that.

On the other hand, it could be JR's tactic to pointing to the intruder, who left his super clean mag-light on the kitchen counter and making us believe the intruder wouldn't super miss the maglight while stumbling down the basement stairs..

-Nin
 
The flashlight has an underbelly.

Underbelly? I'm not sure that I know what you mean by this but from what I've seen, there's no reason to think more than the cylinder head of the flashlight would have come into contact with JBR's head to make that hole. It is effectively as if she was struck by a pipe of the diameter of the head of the flashlight tip.

Checking his statements and diagrams, for instance pictures of a rectangular hole, against autopsy photos.

I don't understand why you make such a big deal of this, they drew and cut out a rectangle which approximates the hole. Now they gave us a demonstration of how a similar hole can be made with a flashlight by a young boy. Can you point to a more convincing demonstration using something else?

I don't expect the shape of the hole to be exactly the same as the object, that is one possibility and I said I prefer the other.

I'm not sure which thread otg's egg and spoon tests are in, sorry. I saw it on youtube as well, where I think he posted a video, or someone did.

It's not just the end that matters, as I said it's the underbelly of the flashlight that has to be accounted for. In the demo it left a pointed broken piece which destroys the symmetry.

Do you have a drawing or something else that can demonstrate what you're talking about?

I'm not saying it was a golf club but what makes you say it's not easy to swing a golf club in the house? The rooms were plenty big enough.

Exactly how do you imagine using a golf club in the house to hit JBR in the head like that? It would be a very odd motion for a golf club in the house. Have you ever swung a golf club - I ask because it's a very odd choice for a weapon unless you're actually playing golf at the time. Now a baseball bat would work well but without much effort the damage would be incredible with a baseball bat.
 
Underbelly? I'm not sure that I know what you mean by this but from what I've seen, there's no reason to think more than the cylinder head of the flashlight would have come into contact with JBR's head to make that hole. It is effectively as if she was struck by a pipe of the diameter of the head of the flashlight tip.



I don't understand why you make such a big deal of this, they drew and cut out a rectangle which approximates the hole. Now they gave us a demonstration of how a similar hole can be made with a flashlight by a young boy. Can you point to a more convincing demonstration using something else?



Exactly how do you imagine using a golf club in the house to hit JBR in the head like that? It would be a very odd motion for a golf club in the house. Have you ever swung a golf club - I ask because it's a very odd choice for a weapon unless you're actually playing golf at the time. Now a baseball bat would work well but without much effort the damage would be incredible with a baseball bat.

You're satisfied with the flashlight tests, I'm not. I'm happy to leave it like that.
 
You're satisfied with the flashlight tests, I'm not. I'm happy to leave it like that.

Me too.

Thanks for getting the egg test reposted. But I think one would have to hit the egg with the round end of the wooded spoon to be more representative of the hit that CBS demonstrated. The wooded spoon test was more representative of a sweet spot base ball bat hit.

But none of the egg cracks looked anything like the actual crack to me.
 
singularity,

JonBenet, Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation, excerpt


The flashlight need not be the blunt force weapon, just about anything heavy enough close to hand would have injured JonBenet. Knowing it was the flashlight does not advance you very far since anyone could have used it.

What is more important is identifying where the primary crime-scene was located?

.

Thanks. So basically there's no proof it was wiped clean. He's speculating. They simply weren't able to lift prints off of it.

Agree that the flashlight doesn't need to be the weapon and IMO its getting way too much attention due to the CBS doc. It was likely just used as a way to go room to room in their dark house which is strange in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if the night vision goggles were being used in this dynamic as well. I find that more interesting than labeling it the murder weapon just because they forgot to put it away.

As far as the primary crime scene goes, we may never know unfortunately even with evidence such as the hellhole basement, JAR's room being a flurry of activity, Patsy mentioning not seeing any blood in JB's room when she wasn't even asked such a thing, etc. Now the kitchen has been placed on front street which just muddies the waters even more.


Yup.



What's more simplistic is the thought that since Spitz may be wrong about the murder weapon (which I have yet to see proof of), then he's probably wrong about everything else. Not all murder cases are black-and-white. It's possible to be wrong about one thing and not another. I'm sure you don't agree with every part of Steve Thomas's theory (I'm assuming you're still PDI).



There's nothing left to Spitz's theory of BDI if he was wrong about one piece of evidence? Nothing? I disagree.

Olivia.....what exactly would be left? It rests on a thin and shaky foundation. It ignores a majority of evidence discussed for twenty years to reach its conclusion. Remove this specific weapon and timing of the attack and what is left? Of course most cases aren't black and white....especially this one. That's the problem.

You haven't seen proof he's wrong? I haven't seen proof that he's right and otg makes a better case than he does.

You're right....I don't agree with everything Thomas said but at least he didn't pull out 100 pieces from a 1000 piece puzzle and considered it solved. Thomas may have been in over his head but he didn't so quickly and easily bypass the complexities of the case. This latest trendy theory pretends much of what happened doesn't even exist....which causes it to hit a brick wall if you go deeper than its surface.
 
Yup.



What's more simplistic is the thought that since Spitz may be wrong about the murder weapon (which I have yet to see proof of), then he's probably wrong about everything else. Not all murder cases are black-and-white. It's possible to be wrong about one thing and not another. I'm sure you don't agree with every part of Steve Thomas's theory (I'm assuming you're still PDI).



There's nothing left to Spitz's theory of BDI if he was wrong about one piece of evidence? Nothing? I disagree.

That's something I wanted to mention, OliviaG1996. Seems to me, there are two issues in play here. It's one thing for Spitz to prove his idea. It's another thing to be able to DISPROVE the intruder theory, and the complaint words it in a way as to be able to do exactly that.
 
… (12-21-2012, 04:33 PM #3 page 1 otg) …
… So to sum up all of what is shown in the enlarged photo of the depressed fracture, let me state the following (and it is my opinion): The depressed fracture is almost a perfect oval, and in the only photo we have access to, it is covered in the posterior one-third with a layer of pericranial membrane which was left attached to the skull when the posterior scalp reflection was done by Dr. Meyer.

…(12-21-2012, 04:36 PM #5 page 1 otg) …

208u4cw.jpg

… What we have in this case is a sphere (the skull) intersecting with another unknown object, and the resulting collision or impact of those two objects is the intersection. An oval is the resulting intersection of a larger diameter sphere with a smaller diameter cylinder. If we know the curvature of the sphere and the approximate dimensions of this intersection, mathematically we could calculate the diameter of the cylindrical object.


otg –

I am so excited that you did all this work and posted this thread. I think you are absolutely correct that the injuries to the skull and brain suggest a narrower weapon and a strike from the rear. I would never post something to offend you, so I hope you take this in the spirit given as possible addition to your theory of the mechanics of the blow.

My suggestion is that the cylinder (weapon) contacted the sphere (head) just as you have informed us, but in two planes of impact from the one blow resulting in the described 3 different fracture types to the skull.

By definition, a comminuted fracture is “crushed or broken into a number of pieces” (Mosby’s). Dr Meyer states in the AR:

“… At the superior extension of this area of hemorrhage is a linear to comminuted skull fracture which extends from the right occipital to posteroparietal area forward to the right frontal area across the parietal skull. In the posteroparietal area of this fracture is a roughly rectangular shaped displaced fragment of skull measuring one and three-quarters by one-half inch. …”

IMO Dr Meyer is not calling the linear fracture or the displaced rectangle fragment “comminuted” because neither feature is in fact comminuted. I believe the genuinely comminuted bone was shattered and crushed to even speck-sized fragments at the posterior 1/3 of your green elliptical range where you have shown us there is remaining periosteum tissue. This area would represent the most significant bone damage because it is the primary and initial impact point of the cylindrical weapon on the spherical skull, the first plane of impact. Comminuted fracture here makes sense since the most force or energy was focused there. When the shattered/crushed first impact point gave way, the cylindrical weapon sunk in and changed to a slightly different secondary plane of impact, in the same wound sequence, resulting in the famous rectangular shaped displaced bone fragment. There was less impact energy applied in this secondary plane so we have a large fragment instead.

I am not convinced that Dr Sptiz is wrong that the superior long side of the rectangular bone fragment was completely displaced and the inferior long side was still attached like a hinge – I think this is possible. The centerline of the force/energy follows the linear fracture line including the superior long side of the rectangular bone. In depressed displaced fracture, not all sides are necessarily depressed to the same extent, and the inferior side here could have even fractured upward (like a seesaw), but I don’t think so JMO. Suffice it to say that this fragment was relatively large, looked rectangular, and suffered less force/energy than the posterior comminuted bone.

And this post was my lightbulb moment:

… ( 02-25-2013, 12:39 PM #215 page 15 wengr) …
…an item with a cylindrical or near cylindrical shaft can only be effectively wielded by holding one end and swinging it. This I feel is important because it can be conducive to the long crack. Imagine the cylinder as it contacts the skull. It is semi fixed at the end which is in someone’s hand. It is also semi fixed where it impacts the skull, and if that place where it impacts the skull is between the two ends, it acts like a fulcrum and the force is transferred over the fulcrum to the free end causing additional force on the far end of the ellipse, and hence, the long crack.


Adding poster wengr’s explanation of fulcrum, it makes sense that the energy wave continued in a forward direction causing the long linear fracture to the frontal/orbital (the browbone where the bone is thicker and it makes perfect sense that it stops there.) The underlying injury pattern to the scalp and brain also indicate this fulcrum energy rear --> front pattern exactly, forward not downward as it pertains to the head. If the attacker swung the weapon downward from over their own head, then JBR likely had her head bent or tilted forward in some imagined position other than standing or sitting with her head up vertical, following the forward not downward force/energy pattern and strike to the rear.

My next question is what part of the cylindrical weapon made contact with the skull? My best thinking on this is that is that the anterior 2/3 of your green ellipse represents the 1.75” of rectangular bone and also the 1.75” end of the weapon. The posterior 1/3 of your green ellipse represents approximately 1” of the weapon before that 1.75” = approximate total of 2.75” of the cylindrical weapon made contact with the head. The first plane of impact is the 1” , following wengr’s fulcrum, and the second plane of impact is the 1.75”. This makes sense if we consider that if only the 1.75” made contact, and made contact as the only or first plane, that is where we would find the worst bone damage - shattered, crushed, comminuted specks - because there would be more energy focused there. OR is it that the end of the weapon never made contact at all?
 
otg –

I am so excited that you did all this work and posted this thread. I think you are absolutely correct that the injuries to the skull and brain suggest a narrower weapon and a strike from the rear. I would never post something to offend you, so I hope you take this in the spirit given as possible addition to your theory of the mechanics of the blow.
Sandy, I always welcome discussion on an important aspect of evidentiary value. I looked at the cause of the skull fractures not knowing where it would lead me. Even when someone disagrees with my conclusions, it is helpful because it might lead to better understanding -- or in some cases, even me changing my mind about something.

With that said, the only thing you stated that I don’t think we know for certain is the position from which the blow was delivered. Assuming her head was upright, it would be correct to say that because of the location on her skull it had to have been delivered from behind. OTOH, what if the blow was delivered while she had her head positioned looking down? Were that the case, an assailant standing in front of her and taller than her might swing the object down and hit the skull toward the back. (Just a possibility to not lose sight of.)


My suggestion is that the cylinder (weapon) contacted the sphere (head) just as you have informed us, but in two planes of impact from the one blow resulting in the described 3 different fracture types to the skull.
I’m intrigued with your suggestion and impressed that you recognize the three different types of fractures. What wasn’t confirmed in the AR is that I suspect she might have also had the fourth type of fracture (basilar) due to the blood-tinged CSF in her nasal cavities. For anyone wanting to read a little more about the types of skull fractures, Wikipedia has a good brief explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_fracture


By definition, a comminuted fracture is “crushed or broken into a number of pieces” (Mosby’s). Dr Meyer states in the AR:

“… At the superior extension of this area of hemorrhage is a linear to comminuted skull fracture which extends from the right occipital to posteroparietal area forward to the right frontal area across the parietal skull. In the posteroparietal area of this fracture is a roughly rectangular shaped displaced fragment of skull measuring one and three-quarters by one-half inch. …”

IMO Dr Meyer is not calling the linear fracture or the displaced rectangle fragment “comminuted” because neither feature is in fact comminuted. I believe the genuinely comminuted bone was shattered and crushed to even speck-sized fragments at the posterior 1/3 of your green elliptical range where you have shown us there is remaining periosteum tissue. This area would represent the most significant bone damage because it is the primary and initial impact point of the cylindrical weapon on the spherical skull, the first plane of impact. Comminuted fracture here makes sense since the most force or energy was focused there. When the shattered/crushed first impact point gave way, the cylindrical weapon sunk in and changed to a slightly different secondary plane of impact, in the same wound sequence, resulting in the famous rectangular shaped displaced bone fragment. There was less impact energy applied in this secondary plane so we have a large fragment instead.
IMO, that’s all a possibility. To bad we don’t have a leaked photo of the bone fragments. So much can be determined from that.


I am not convinced that Dr Sptiz is wrong that the superior long side of the rectangular bone fragment was completely displaced and the inferior long side was still attached like a hinge – I think this is possible. The centerline of the force/energy follows the linear fracture line including the superior long side of the rectangular bone. In depressed displaced fracture, not all sides are necessarily depressed to the same extent, and the inferior side here could have even fractured upward (like a seesaw), but I don’t think so JMO. Suffice it to say that this fragment was relatively large, looked rectangular, and suffered less force/energy than the posterior comminuted bone.
If I’m following your line of thought correctly, what you suggest is certainly possible, but I don’t think that’s what Spitz is claiming. Here’s why I don’t think that’s what he meant and what my problem with his claims:

We’ve all seen the “hole” that was left in her skull at the moment it was photographed. Except for a minor chip, it is perfectly elliptical. Since we haven’t seen the bone fragments, it’s possible one (or more) of them was (were) rectangular. But this is what Spitz said in 2000 (http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000spitzondiscovery.htm):

Dr. Werner Spitz:
...? it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable.

Narrator Lyn Cannon: The size and shape of the fracture was so distinctive, Spitz decided to conduct his own tests, reenacting the injury.

Spitz: You could do it on syrofoam, you could do it on cardboard, you could do it on bone. I did it on all three.

Cannon: Published reports this week, speculate a baseball bat, found outside the house, might be the murder weapon. Spitz's tests lead him to a weapon inside the house.

Spitz: I would certainly believe that the flashlight is the instrument of death.
Cannon: What makes you so sure that it's compatible. How do you know?

Spitz: Because it fits right into the ....?.. It doesn't fit into the defect where it leaves some area to play with. It fits perfectly.


I interpret that to mean he wasn’t talking about one portion of the bone fragments but the section that was knocked out. And then to verify this, on the CBS series, he had a sketch drawn that showed the “hole” as being rectangular in which coincidentally the Maglite did indeed fit. Here is a screencap of his sketch:

attachment.php


Here is the result of their demo of striking a flat object with the Maglite -- again, coincidentally matching his idea of a rectangular “hole”:

attachment.php


Yet in the same program, there was another sketch shown which appears to have been made from the autopsy photo. The problem is that they don’t match and nothing was said about it in the program. Here is the other sketch:

attachment.php


In this last photo it shows the elliptical shape and even the membrane still attached and covering the posterior third of the “hole.” Notice that it’s not shaped the same as what he’s trying to reproduce with the head of the Maglite.

I don’t think Spitz wasn’t officially brought in on the investigation until later. From what he said in the CBS series he seemed to have resented that they wouldn’t give him free access to the evidence, and seemed to be suggesting it was because they didn’t want him to be able to solve the case. (Just my impression when he was talking about someone he knew who let him have one of the splinter slides.) But he’s only seen the photos and read the AR the same as us. Clearly, Dr. Meyer called it rectangular in his report, and I too believed it until I looked closely at it after the autopsy photos were leaked to the public.


And this post was my lightbulb moment:


Adding poster wengr’s explanation of fulcrum, it makes sense that the energy wave continued in a forward direction causing the long linear fracture to the frontal/orbital (the browbone where the bone is thicker and it makes perfect sense that it stops there.) The underlying injury pattern to the scalp and brain also indicate this fulcrum energy rear --> front pattern exactly, forward not downward as it pertains to the head. If the attacker swung the weapon downward from over their own head, then JBR likely had her head bent or tilted forward in some imagined position other than standing or sitting with her head up vertical, following the forward not downward force/energy pattern and strike to the rear.
(Gee whiz, I miss wengr. He’s the one who convinced me it is Burke’s voice at the beginning of the 911 recording.) I understand what you’re saying about the fulcrum effect and I agree that it may very well have influenced how the linear fracture developed. That’s probably getting above my pay grade. I also suspect that the posterior “crack” stopped where it did because the energy may have been absorbed to a certain amount because it fell within the lambdoid suture. That particular suture doesn’t completely fuse until well into latter adulthood.


My next question is what part of the cylindrical weapon made contact with the skull? My best thinking on this is that is that the anterior 2/3 of your green ellipse represents the 1.75” of rectangular bone and also the 1.75” end of the weapon. The posterior 1/3 of your green ellipse represents approximately 1” of the weapon before that 1.75” = approximate total of 2.75” of the cylindrical weapon made contact with the head. The first plane of impact is the 1” , following wengr’s fulcrum, and the second plane of impact is the 1.75”. This makes sense if we consider that if only the 1.75” made contact, and made contact as the only or first plane, that is where we would find the worst bone damage - shattered, crushed, comminuted specks - because there would be more energy focused there. OR is it that the end of the weapon never made contact at all?
I’m not sure if I follow you on this one, Sandy. Obviously, the assailant would be swinging the weapon in an arc, so I’ll agree that there is a certain amount of force that might be projected outward from the inside of the arc. But I don’t know if would be enough of an arc to make that much of a difference from coming almost straight down. Here are a couple of videos that show how I think the cylindrical bludgeon impacted on her skull:

https://youtu.be/YgQqsStqaNc

https://youtu.be/eP1vZhTIRtE
 
Sandy, I always welcome discussion on an important aspect of evidentiary value. I looked at the cause of the skull fractures not knowing where it would lead me. Even when someone disagrees with my conclusions, it is helpful because it might lead to better understanding -- or in some cases, even me changing my mind about something.

With that said, the only thing you stated that I don’t think we know for certain is the position from which the blow was delivered. Assuming her head was upright, it would be correct to say that because of the location on her skull it had to have been delivered from behind. OTOH, what if the blow was delivered while she had her head positioned looking down? Were that the case, an assailant standing in front of her and taller than her might swing the object down and hit the skull toward the back. (Just a possibility to not lose sight of.)


I’m intrigued with your suggestion and impressed that you recognize the three different types of fractures. What wasn’t confirmed in the AR is that I suspect she might have also had the fourth type of fracture (basilar) due to the blood-tinged CSF in her nasal cavities. For anyone wanting to read a little more about the types of skull fractures, Wikipedia has a good brief explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_fracture


IMO, that’s all a possibility. To bad we don’t have a leaked photo of the bone fragments. So much can be determined from that.


If I’m following your line of thought correctly, what you suggest is certainly possible, but I don’t think that’s what Spitz is claiming. Here’s why I don’t think that’s what he meant and what my problem with his claims:

We’ve all seen the “hole” that was left in her skull at the moment it was photographed. Except for a minor chip, it is perfectly elliptical. Since we haven’t seen the bone fragments, it’s possible one (or more) of them was (were) rectangular. But this is what Spitz said in 2000 (http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000spitzondiscovery.htm):

Dr. Werner Spitz:
...? it was perfectly rectangular. That piece of bone that was knocked out, remained attached on a hinge,and was bendable.

Narrator Lyn Cannon: The size and shape of the fracture was so distinctive, Spitz decided to conduct his own tests, reenacting the injury.

Spitz: You could do it on syrofoam, you could do it on cardboard, you could do it on bone. I did it on all three.

Cannon: Published reports this week, speculate a baseball bat, found outside the house, might be the murder weapon. Spitz's tests lead him to a weapon inside the house.

Spitz: I would certainly believe that the flashlight is the instrument of death.
Cannon: What makes you so sure that it's compatible. How do you know?

Spitz: Because it fits right into the ....?.. It doesn't fit into the defect where it leaves some area to play with. It fits perfectly.


I interpret that to mean he wasn’t talking about one portion of the bone fragments but the section that was knocked out. And then to verify this, on the CBS series, he had a sketch drawn that showed the “hole” as being rectangular in which coincidentally the Maglite did indeed fit. Here is a screencap of his sketch:

attachment.php


Here is the result of their demo of striking a flat object with the Maglite -- again, coincidentally matching his idea of a rectangular “hole”:

attachment.php


Yet in the same program, there was another sketch shown which appears to have been made from the autopsy photo. The problem is that they don’t match and nothing was said about it in the program. Here is the other sketch:

attachment.php


In this last photo it shows the elliptical shape and even the membrane still attached and covering the posterior third of the “hole.” Notice that it’s not shaped the same as what he’s trying to reproduce with the head of the Maglite.

I don’t think Spitz wasn’t officially brought in on the investigation until later. From what he said in the CBS series he seemed to have resented that they wouldn’t give him free access to the evidence, and seemed to be suggesting it was because they didn’t want him to be able to solve the case. (Just my impression when he was talking about someone he knew who let him have one of the splinter slides.) But he’s only seen the photos and read the AR the same as us. Clearly, Dr. Meyer called it rectangular in his report, and I too believed it until I looked closely at it after the autopsy photos were leaked to the public.


(Gee whiz, I miss wengr. He’s the one who convinced me it is Burke’s voice at the beginning of the 911 recording.) I understand what you’re saying about the fulcrum effect and I agree that it may very well have influenced how the linear fracture developed. That’s probably getting above my pay grade. I also suspect that the posterior “crack” stopped where it did because the energy may have been absorbed to a certain amount because it fell within the lambdoid suture. That particular suture doesn’t completely fuse until well into latter adulthood.


I’m not sure if I follow you on this one, Sandy. Obviously, the assailant would be swinging the weapon in an arc, so I’ll agree that there is a certain amount of force that might be projected outward from the inside of the arc. But I don’t know if would be enough of an arc to make that much of a difference from coming almost straight down. Here are a couple of videos that show how I think the cylindrical bludgeon impacted on her skull:

https://youtu.be/YgQqsStqaNc

https://youtu.be/eP1vZhTIRtE

Interesting. It's too bad I cannot participate here. I understand though, and agree to the rules. However, it would be okay for me to say (I hope) that the weapon causing the head injury has not been mentioned in this thread (in my intruder theory the weapon left the building). In trying to find a way to tie this weapon with the "3 in the house" (Burke, John, Patsy), I cannot. However all the science fits in and I wanted to thank all who contribute to this most informative thread and website.
 
Does anyone think the "Knob" of the baseball bat could have caused the head injury?
 
Does anyone think the "Knob" of the baseball bat could have caused the head injury?

That's possible. The side of the knob, swung by the barrel of the bat.
 
Does anyone think the "Knob" of the baseball bat could have caused the head injury?

JI Group have/had such analysis on their page.

I am not sure if they did it on their own or have got it from some other source.

search their page for "knob part of the baseball bat".
 
Interesting. It's too bad I cannot participate here. I understand though, and agree to the rules. However, it would be okay for me to say (I hope) that the weapon causing the head injury has not been mentioned in this thread (in my intruder theory the weapon left the building). In trying to find a way to tie this weapon with the "3 in the house" (Burke, John, Patsy), I cannot. However all the science fits in and I wanted to thank all who contribute to this most informative thread and website.
There is nothing in the rules here that says a poster’s theories prevent them from discussing the evidence. If you have a thought that might convince others to your line of thought, post it. Discussing the evidence or the science behind it is good for all. Put it out there and let everyone else draw their own conclusions and develop their theories. Unless you theorize that the “killer” used a bat (or anything else) that had his name on it, I don’t see how your idea about the weapon would point to any single individual. If it does, post it and let the evidence convince us.
 
Does anyone think the "Knob" of the baseball bat could have caused the head injury?
It’s very close to the depressed fracture, but I don’t think it’s the weapon for two reasons.

(1) In order to swing it, the heaviest part of the bat would be held in the assailant’s hands. That doesn’t allow there to be enough weight or force behind in (IMO) to cause the severe skull damage that was actually done in this case. The other possibility would be having the victim swung against the weapon, and I can’t see how she could have been swung (or fallen against it) with enough force to cause it.

(2) The other reason is because I don’t think the shape of the depressed fracture fits with the knob of a baseball bat. That “hole” is almost a perfect ellipse:
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The shape I got in clay from the bat knob is too straight on the sides and too round on the ends:
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Earlier in this thread I linked a video where I had tested different objects and shapes that have been suggested over the years (brick, fireplace poker, rolling pin, both heads of a ball peen hammer, head of a flashlight, crow bar, golf putter). The section on the baseball bat knob begins at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUwVZclrqkY&feature=youtu.be&t=7m42s


I don’t claim to be an expert. By all means I would encourage anyone to do some testing themselves. If you find something different, please post it.
 
JI Group have/had such analysis on their page.

I am not sure if they did it on their own or have got it from some other source.

search their page for "knob part of the baseball bat".
I don’t know who the “JI Group” is, but I truly hope you aren’t referring to Roscoe’s “Team JBI.”
 

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