IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, found deceased, Evansdale, 13 Jul 2012 #38

[Fukiyama]

No information about cause of death or lack of it has been mentioned publicly by Iowa law enforcement in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. It is presumed that due to the length of time that elapsed before Elizabeth and Lyric were found that law enforcement has no DNA or cause of death due to the remains being described as skeletal.

I am familiar with why we /think/ COD has not been announced. But we don't know for sure, do we?

 

[threecrazykids]

This is no bash against LE - but it just sickens me that there is actual footage (both photo and audio) in Libby and Abby's case and they still haven't been able to make an arrest. LE in that case have to be so frustrated. I can only imagine how difficult a case would have to be, where the remains are in the condition Lyric and Elizabeth's likely were. As a mother of a teenage girl I feel I don't know if I (personally) could even comprehend someone getting away with murdering my daughter when there is photographic and audio evidence of the person. How gut wrenching. I don't know what would be worse!? To have zero knowledge of the perp (in Lyric and Lizzy's case), or to HAVE a visual and have to live seeing that face every time you close your eyes.

Bless these families...how horrific.

 

[gregjrichards]

I am familiar with why we /think/ COD has not been announced. But we don't know for sure, do we?

No but like you I really do hope they do.

This is no bash against LE - but it just sickens me that there is actual footage (both photo and audio) in Libby and Abby's case and they still haven't been able to make an arrest. LE in that case have to be so frustrated. I can only imagine how difficult a case would have to be, where the remains are in the condition Lyric and Elizabeth's likely were. As a mother of a teenage girl I feel I don't know if I (personally) could even comprehend someone getting away with murdering my daughter when there is photographic and audio evidence of the person. How gut wrenching. I don't know what would be worse!? To have zero knowledge of the perp (in Lyric and Lizzy's case), or to HAVE a visual and have to live seeing that face every time you close your eyes.

Bless these families...how horrific.

Both situations are horrendous. I'm more optimistic about Abbey and Liberty's case being solved than Elizabeth and Lyric's due to the fact that law enforcement have at least something to go on.

 

[kai]

My husband and I traveled to a funeral last week that took us on the Interstate that passes Angels Park. When I realized where we were, I had him turn around so we could stop at the park. Things that stood out to me:
1. The park and bike trail around the pond is a lot larger than I had pictured it in my head.
2. The noise from the cars on the interstate IMO would have drowned out any yelling or screaming from the girls if they were taken from the area where the bikes were found.
3. I'm leaning strongly towards some kind of canoe or rowboat being involved.
4. The benches and gazebo memorials are beautiful and it was very touching to see them.

I hope to reread all the prior threads again. After seeing the park in person I have a different perspective on my head. Praying for justice for Lyric & Lizzy.

 

[borndem]

Thanks, Kai -- interesting (and so very sad) information. Those sweet little girls...

 

[Bootsctr]

Here is Steele report with lead investigation

http://www.kwwl.com/category/256572/the-steele-report

It's good to see Drew. He says he talks to Dan. He looks well. I hope Heather is doing as well. I feared for their marriage from the beginning. Surprised to see that Missy has a baby daughter! I still think the killer is local.

 

[Bootsctr]

My husband and I traveled to a funeral last week that took us on the Interstate that passes Angels Park. When I realized where we were, I had him turn around so we could stop at the park. Things that stood out to me:
1. The park and bike trail around the pond is a lot larger than I had pictured it in my head.
2. The noise from the cars on the interstate IMO would have drowned out any yelling or screaming from the girls if they were taken from the area where the bikes were found.
3. I'm leaning strongly towards some kind of canoe or rowboat being involved.
4. The benches and gazebo memorials are beautiful and it was very touching to see them.

I hope to reread all the prior threads again. After seeing the park in person I have a different perspective on my head. Praying for justice for Lyric & Lizzy.

Curious to hear your thoughts regarding a canoe or rowboat. I always thought the girls could have been drawn to the lake because of the paddle boat.

 

[Fukiyama]

My husband and I traveled to a funeral last week that took us on the Interstate that passes Angels Park. When I realized where we were, I had him turn around so we could stop at the park. Things that stood out to me:
1. The park and bike trail around the pond is a lot larger than I had pictured it in my head.
2. The noise from the cars on the interstate IMO would have drowned out any yelling or screaming from the girls if they were taken from the area where the bikes were found.
3. I'm leaning strongly towards some kind of canoe or rowboat being involved.
4. The benches and gazebo memorials are beautiful and it was very touching to see them.

I hope to reread all the prior threads again. After seeing the park in person I have a different perspective on my head. Praying for justice for Lyric & Lizzy.

I buzz by there at least once a year on US 20 (the interstate). I strongly urge you to check out the early threads and especially Opilo's (that's spelled wrong, I know) pictures. That area has been cut down so much since the abductions. It's unrecognizable almost.

 

[kai]

I buzz by there at least once a year on US 20 (the interstate). I strongly urge you to check out the early threads and especially Opilo's (that's spelled wrong, I know) pictures. That area has been cut down so much since the abductions. It's unrecognizable almost.

Oh yes, I can definitely tell the area has been cleared out of greenery and opened up more from what it looked like when the girls disappeared. I do plan to reread all the threads again just because I think it will be interesting to read them with the real visuals in my head now. Does anyone offhand remember off the chain link fence was in place in between the interstate hill and the trail when Lyric and Lizzy went missing? My head says no because I think I originally had wondered if someone had stopped on the road and went down the hill to to trail. I'm not so sure that could have happened without numerous witnesses now, after seeing the traffic on that road. Anyways, I'll be back after I have a readathon to refresh!

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[MzOpinion8d]

No information about cause of death or lack of it has been mentioned publicly by Iowa law enforcement in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. It is presumed that due to the length of time that elapsed before Elizabeth and Lyric were found that law enforcement has no DNA or cause of death due to the remains being described as skeletal.

I've never seen it specified that the remains were skeletal. Was this info released by LE?

 

[Copper]

Kai, yes, the chainlink fence was there between the trail and Hwy 20 when L&E were abducted.

 

[Bootsctr]

Kai, yes, the chainlink fence was there between the trail and Hwy 20 when L&E were abducted.

And there was a hole in the fence, IIRC.

 

[carbuff]

I've never seen it specified that the remains were skeletal. Was this info released by LE?

I'm not sure if they ever said specifically but after six months, I think it's a safe assumption.

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[Fukiyama]

Regarding the fence, remember that there were chainlink fences on both sides of the trail. Remember how people who visited and looked at the pictures felt like the girls, if they had been there, were walking into a trap with the fences and the trees and bushes overhanging?

 

[dotr]

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/e...cle_7dbadcc0-cfd1-11e1-b097-001a4bcf887a.html
By MATTHEW WILDE
Jul 17, 2012

“We just don’t have much to go on,” Abben said. ” There’s two bikes and a purse that was found. ... There’s nothing really more to tell you than the search is continuing.”

The bikes were found in the trail by the gate leading to a rock jetty and water outlet on the lake. The gate wasn’t locked at the time, Abben said.
There’s a chain link fence on both sides of the trail. The purse was on the lake-side of the fence, about 10 feet to the east of the bikes and about 2 feet from the fence, officials said.

As the group searched, a bicyclist stopped the officers to say he saw the two kids bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.
Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo said he rides the trail often.
“I saw the bikes laying on the path and had to swerve to miss them,” Gamerdinger said. He then went to the Evansdale Police Department to report the sighting.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_87408126-d217-11e1-aec0-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Considering]

That's a new detail, isn't it? Or am I remembering wrong? I thought up to this point the cause of death or lack of one had not been announced.

No information about cause of death or lack of it has been mentioned publicly by Iowa law enforcement in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. It is presumed that due to the length of time that elapsed before Elizabeth and Lyric were found that law enforcement has no DNA or cause of death due to the remains being described as skeletal.

The information about the lack of a cause of death in the case of Lyric and Lizzy came from the lead investigator in the murders of Abby Williams and Liberty German, Indiana State Police Lafayette District Investigative Commander First Sgt. Jerry Holeman who stated

"Obviously, the case in Iowa is probably the closest but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later so it's hard to compare, but it is similar, but, so, we take that into consideration as well. We, we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they've been in contact with us and we've discussed that but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation, er, similiar to this but doesn't mean he's going to kill everybody the same every time so we don't know."​

http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/

The quote begins around 9:50.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I'm not sure if they ever said specifically but after six months, I think it's a safe assumption.

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I have a theory that they were held for some time prior to being killed and left at Seven Bridges. When they were found, all the articles stated their bodies were found rather than their remains were found. Usually when its skeletal remains, it's reported as remains rather than bodies, but of course that proves nothing. I was just curious if LE had ever actually specified it was skeletal remains found.

 

[Fukiyama]

The information about the lack of a cause of death in the case of Lyric and Lizzy came from the lead investigator in the murders of Abby Williams and Liberty German, Indiana State Police Lafayette District Investigative Commander First Sgt. Jerry Holeman who stated

"Obviously, the case in Iowa is probably the closest but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later so it's hard to compare, but it is similar, but, so, we take that into consideration as well. We, we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they've been in contact with us and we've discussed that but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation, er, similiar to this but doesn't mean he's going to kill everybody the same every time so we don't know."​

http://fox59.com/2017/08/14/lead-de...ave-more-audio-from-teens-phone-dna-evidence/

The quote begins around 9:50.

Right, that's why I found it interesting and wondered if I had missed something from local LE recently. Why are Indiana cops divulging details local LE has kept quiet about all along?

 

[carbuff]

Right, that's why I found it interesting and wondered if I had missed something from local LE recently. Why are Indiana cops divulging details local LE has kept quiet about all along?

For whatever reason, Indiana LE has been more open about everything from the beginning. Different philosophies, different personalities, different case, I don't know. They've gone on TV and radio talk shows to answer questions, and while they've had things they can't talk about, they've been specific about most of it. There's been much less deliberate vagueness and weasel wording.

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[Fukiyama]

For whatever reason, Indiana LE has been more open about everything from the beginning. Different philosophies, different personalities, different case, I don't know. They've gone on TV and radio talk shows to answer questions, and while they've had things they can't talk about, they've been specific about most of it. There's been much less deliberate vagueness and weasel wording.

Sure, and I applaud them and wish LE in Lyric and Elizabeth's case shared more, but is that really the Indiana cops' call to make? L and E's case is not theirs.