Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Rarebear]

This is quite off topic from KT and JC... but scrolling through realestate listings and knowing there are a few sleuths who have suggested SS may be up in the hills, there is a Gugeri creek off Mundaring Weir rd!

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[petedavo.au]

As that is the case, JC being a smoker, the only item which someone would probably stop for on route home would be cigarettes. Whilst travelling home from Parmelia she would have known how many she had left. She may have stopped at a deli, garage or a hotel's vending machine.

Also, might have been low on petrol and looked somewhere to fuel up.

Alternatively, once home, and realizing she didn't have any milk someone would probably go back out for milk. From the local deli or garage on roster.

For those that don't realize, back in 1988 garage's opened, after hours on a roster system - except the one in Perth and domestic airport.

These are just a couple of thoughts.

Back then, rosters and delis were all closed by 11pm. And even if she found one, it probably didn't stock most brands. Unless she back tracked to Wellington St Swan Taxis, Anytime Deli in Rivervale, or the 24hr store in Vic Park, she would only have Captain Munchies open (if they sold ciggies back then - they don't now - they no longer have a shop area)
However, the Parmelia had a cigarette vending machine by the stairs in their arcade opposite their Pub. It only carried a small range and was expensive, but if you were desperate enough. If she realised on the way home, and couldn't wait till Captain Munchies, then the only alternative after midnight was stopping at a pub and hoping that they had a cigarette vending machine.
We're lucky nowadays. No more roster servos. Servos are 24/7 now, even IGA stores are open longer than the old foodland stores they replaced. People just don't remember just how dead Perth was after 5pm. Streetlights used to be turned off after 11:30pm, then 1:30am, now they're on all night, and there's more than only 3 shops open 24hrs like there was back then. By the way, those 3 shops are still operating.

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[Ringos]

As I live near Canning Vale prison, I often see the prison vans out and about. I suppose taking the prisoners to and from court - I don't know where else they'd take them.

Wednesday morning I'll keep a look out for BREs van and let you all know ASAP, what time and whether it's police escorted etc.

Regards CV

Hi CV the vans are also used for transporting prisoners to other prisons as they go from remand to maximum (casuarina etc) or minimum, also hospital visits if required. However court would be the most regular occurrence. I think canning Vale Prison is mainly remand people awaiting sentencing then they get transferred to the most appropriate prison afterwards.


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[Canning Vale]

The reports say the headlights were on when the car entered the water. Also it was found with its headlights on! That wouldn't be the case many our later after it was retrieved. Both these articles have been posted many times before and while some information seemed to change this was always constant.

And yes talking with first hand witness's that saw the car in the water and when retrieved, I believe that the car was only in the ocean a matter of hours before it was found.

Daily Mail late June 1988 Police seek 2 in car puzzle by Steve Manchee

Police forensic tests have shown that when the car entered the water the ignition and lights were turned on …

The West Australian July 8th 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped

....They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on,…

… Miss Cutler did not smoke and was not a regular drinker….

IC,

Many thanks for the information. I've read the two articles a couple of times but can't locate where it states.......They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on,…

Please let me know as soon as possible, because I'm starting to get really confused by all the posts and it doesn't feel good...

 

[Innerchild]

Thats right Spooks, the clubbies accounts to IC do not PROVE what time the car went into the water. But it is those accounts that formed IC's opinion on when that may have been as they believe the lights were shining brightly ON. If that it is in fact true, & the time taken for the battery discharge offered by Pandit is accurate, it does hold weight that the car had only just been delivered into the ocean, does it not? Hence, me saying that although they can not prove it, it may well be true. Do I agree it likely happened like that, no.

Said far better than I could no name! Everyone will have their own opinion and position on what happened based on the information they have and their personal experiences.

 

[Bunnie]

As that is the case, JC being a smoker, the only item which someone would probably stop for on route home would be cigarettes. Whilst travelling home from Parmelia she would have known how many she had left. She may have stopped at a deli, garage or a hotel's vending machine.

Also, might have been low on petrol and looked somewhere to fuel up.

Alternatively, once home, and realizing she didn't have any milk someone would probably go back out for milk. From the local deli or garage on roster.

For those that don't realize, back in 1988 garage's opened, after hours on a roster system - except the one in Perth and domestic airport.

These are just a couple of thoughts.

We planned our petrol A LOT better back then.

 

[meticulously]

"Police forensic tests have shown that when the car entered the water the ignition and lights were turned on"

________________________________

Thats one of the better clues that indicate that the car wasnt pre crushed and dropped from a boat .
The dents in the side look like they fit the pylon imo .

I wonder also if the tyres had been deflated to drive on sand ?
If the perpetrator/s were really trying everything, to help drive the car on sand they would have deflated the tyres .
________________________________

Deciphered from the news article :

"It was found about 35?m from the beach, well away from the groyne."
"The car's ignition and light switches were on, and both front doors were unlocked"
"The driver's window was open and the rear doors were locked."
"The car was winched ashore and taken for forensic tests".

 

[Canning Vale]

If JC was low on petrol, she may have needed to detour. Whilst all the garages were closed they had a roster list on the window. Also, roster signs, pointing to the nearest garage.

JC may not have had any money because her wallet was at home (no eftpos then).

Everyone will need to have a think, was there a garage near Cottesloe Beach?

 

[Bunnie]

IC,

Many thanks for the information. I've read the two articles a couple of times but can't locate where it states.......They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on,…

Please let me know as soon as possible, because I'm starting to get really confused by all the posts and it doesn't feel good...

I read the 1st article as stating the car entered the water with ignition and lights turned on... ie the switches were in the on position, not necessarily that the headlights were still shining and motor was still running.

 

[Innerchild]

IC,

Many thanks for the information. I've read the two articles a couple of times but can't locate where it states.......They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on,…

Please let me know as soon as possible, because I'm starting to get really confused by all the posts and it doesn't feel good...

The West Australian July 8th 1988 Bizarre Case that has detectives stumped
... They only know it was found at Cottesloe beach two days later, floating in the surf with the ignition and lights turned on ...

The Daily Mail late June 1988. Police seek 2 in Car Puzzle by Steve Manchee

... Police forensic tests have shown that when the car entered the water the ignition and lights were turned on ...

 

[Innerchild]

Hi Bunnie, not sure if you answered this already, but can you please confirm when SS rang for a taxi on the night she disappeared (from the cnr of Stirling Rd and Stirling Hwy) where did she ask dispatch for the taxi to take her?

Was it Mosman Park or was it South Perth?

Appreciate your reply/

 

[Hilo]

IIRC Some older cars you could pull the key out when the ignition was on. A big safety fault that was later rectified.

I have a modern car and can pull the key out of the ignition leaving the car running...

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I read the 1st article as stating the car entered the water with ignition and lights turned on... ie the switches were in the on position, not necessarily that the headlights were still shining and motor was still running.

Bunnie thank u for repeating this point! I've been saying the same thing till I was blue in the face.

A turned on light switch to on position is NOT same as light shining from light globes!


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

IMO the Fiat was launched into the ocean by travelling down the path/road on the northern side of the toilet/shower block (now Indiana Tea House). The slope is steeper here in north side so car got heaps more speed going down the hill. The distance to water line here is also shorter than southern end of toilet/shower block.

Plus the current travelling north to south along coast would easily place the Fiat in line with impacting the pylon. Hence the big round dents in side panels shown in those Channel 7 pics of the car.

IMO the Fiat went in on north side. Pretty obvious to me

There's no way logically the Fiat was driven off groyne or washed off by a rogue wave, and then magically swam against the current to be found where it was found.
............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

IMO the Fiat was launched into the ocean by travelling down the path/road on the northern side of the toilet/shower block (now Indiana Tea House). The slope is steeper here in north side so car got heaps more speed going down the hill. The distance to water line here is also shorter than southern end of toilet/shower block.

Plus the current travelling north to south along coast would easily place the Fiat in line with impacting the pylon. Hence the big round dents in side panels shown in those Channel 7 pics of the car.

IMO the Fiat went in on north side. Pretty obvious to me

There's no way logically the Fiat was driven off groyne or washed off by a rogue wave, and then magically swam against the current to be found where it was found.
............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

My north-side entry point scenario would give enough space and current for the back seat to be floated out and around groyne, to be found on southern side of groyne on the Monday.

Plus with this entry point, any of the clubbies or Bobbies that swam from groyne to pylon and back had less chance of spotting the Fiat under water.
Plus the surf break curls off the groyne so surfers would not have opportunity to see underwater Fiat either if this entry point was the factual reality.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Bunnie]

Hi Bunnie, not sure if you answered this already, but can you please confirm when SS rang for a taxi on the night she disappeared (from the cnr of Stirling Rd and Stirling Hwy) where did she ask dispatch for the taxi to take her?

Was it Mosman Park or was it South Perth?

Appreciate your reply/

Sarah rang for a taxi at 2.06am. Taxi arrived 3 minutes later (msm says 2.08am and taxi arrived at 2.11am... however i think that is based on audio tape time not computer despatch time. .. we had a time stamp issue with the ancient audio system) her destination was listed as AD "as directed"... pretty standard for a phone box call.

 

[meticulously]

IMO the Fiat was launched into the ocean by travelling down the path/road on the northern side of the toilet/shower block (now Indiana Tea House). The slope is steeper here in north side so car got heaps more speed going down the hill. The distance to water line here is also shorter than southern end of toilet/shower block.

Plus the current travelling north to south along coast would easily place the Fiat in line with impacting the pylon. Hence the big round dents in side panels shown in those Channel 7 pics of the car.

IMO the Fiat went in on north side. Pretty obvious to me

There's no way logically the Fiat was driven off groyne or washed off by a rogue wave, and then magically swam against the current to be found where it was found.
............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Down this road ive marked with a red line Spooks ?

https://goo.gl/images/k8tjm1

https://goo.gl/images/Cg9PgH

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Down this road ive marked with a red line Spooks ?

https://goo.gl/images/k8tjm1

https://goo.gl/images/Cg9PgH

Yes that red line marks where I think the Fiat went in the ocean.
Although those particular photos show the water line quite far out, I've seen other pics of Cott beach where the waves are actually crashing onto the wall here.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Yes that red line marks where I think the Fiat went in the ocean.
Although those particular photos show the water line quite far out, I've seen other pics of Cott beach where the waves are actually crashing onto the wall here.


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

https://goo.gl/images/yBFXkx

https://youtu.be/dYVHNz0-CWQ


https://goo.gl/images/gPPUqK

http://www.robertvinephotography.com.au/tag/sky/
............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[petedavo.au]

Bunnie thank u for repeating this point! I've been saying the same thing till I was blue in the face.

A turned on light switch to on position is NOT same as light shining from light globes!


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

Same as a toaster in the bathtub won't toast bread even if it's on?


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