Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[JDG]

At least two thirds of the garage and all of the pool area are not beneath the house, they extend under what is presumably the rear grounds. I expect the pool location was chosen so that they wouldn't be heard by a housekeeper from the house.

From what I recall of the Toronto Life expose on the property, I thought the indoor pool and garage were under the house. The backyard has another swimming pool and hot tub for summer use. Think they had underground parking for 6 cars with a heated ramp and the indoor lap pool with a hot tub on the lower level. I could be wrong....but thats what I thought they reported.

 

[JDG]

On the listing, it said there was 'potential for elevator'. Guess they had the house built with an elevator shaft for future use?

 

[dotr]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...atheist-convictions-in-unfinished-memoir.html

A 1996 memoir manuscript written by Barry Sherman reveals the late pharmacy mogul gave ample thought to the meaning of life, and concluded there was none.

“I have always been conscious of my personal mortality,” he wrote two decades ago.

“Memories are brief,” Sherman wrote in the preface, “and even should there survive some physical manifestation of my existence, my thoughts will be forever lost unless I commit them to paper.”
In the incomplete draft, he wrote that, while on vacation with his family, he felt the need to write something that would last beyond himself.

On the other hand, Sherman emphatically wrote that he believes all humans are bound by the rules of physics, comparing human bodies to computer hardware and concluding: “Free will is an illusion.”

“Power and wealth bring no obligation,” he wrote, “but they do bring opportunity.”

“I cannot see that human behaviour differs in any fundamental way from that of numerous species on the savannahs of Serengeti. We are all driven by our instincts to eat, drink, copulate, protect ourselves and our young, and cooperate with others, particularly those most closely related to us, if and when it is to our mutual advantage,” he wrote.

“Happiness is, I believe, best defined as satisfaction of these drives, and it is that which we all pursue.”

“The fact that I make little mention of my wife and children should not be taken as suggesting that they are not important to my life, as that would be anything but true,” Sherman wrote. “However, it seems to me that information about my family is likely to be of less interest to a reader than my observations relating to philosophy, Canadian politics and the pharmaceutical industry.”

He described himself as highly motivated but lethargic; a top student, but not particularly intelligent.

The remaining chapters, which are listed in Sherman’s index with such names as “The Insatiable Cartel,” “Animal Farm,” and “Going for the Kill,” are not contained in the draft.

rbbm.

 

[Tortoise]

The fact that Barry didn't go to work on Thursday makes me think this happened very early that morning, or during the night before. I wonder if they were out together Wednesday evening and this happened when they arrived home.

I'm assuming the (alleged) jackets were outdoor jackets and they weren't dressed in random jackets for the hanging. This would mean they were on their way out (in the morning) or coming home (night). I favour the night. I think it makes more sense that if they had dressed to go to work and were ready to leave the house it would be an unlikely time for Barry to kill Honey, and the night seems to be more likely if it was either a murder/suicide or a double murder, just because it offers the cover of darkness, less chance for staff being around, opportunity for someone to hijack them in their car and force them to drive home, and if it was murder/suicide, something that built up to a situation in Barry's mind, rather than just waking up from sleep in the morning.

 

[Tortoise]

From what I recall of the Toronto Life expose on the property, I thought the indoor pool and garage were under the house. The backyard has another swimming pool and hot tub for summer use. Think they had underground parking for 6 cars with a heated ramp and the indoor lap pool with a hot tub on the lower level. I could be wrong....but thats what I thought they reported.

plans here - http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

I may have misinterpreted them, but the placement of the spiral stairs and the lift on the two upper floors look like they correspond with the spiral stairs leading to the sauna room/changing room and the lift more or less being adjacent to the drive way.

 

[dotr]

It probably is clear glass at the end of the pool, but does it look like a mirror to anyone?
If it is a mirror, it would make me think of what might be seen, if they were facing in that direction...

https://globalnews.ca/news/3921034/suspicious-death-of-apotex-founder-barry-sherman-and-wi

 

[scadagirl28]

Thanks JGD and jayfriend , It does say potential elevator. I guess I was trying figure out Mrs. Sherman's death. Barry Sherman was always the smartest guy in the room and maybe, possibly even in death , still is.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Or, as i previously posted,someone could have got into the utility room, or were there already, and cut the power temporarily, no light, no image.
While i am imagining things, will question if there are any used/ empty cups/glasses around, GHB could knock someone out, making them vulnerable to whatever.. get dragged/ carried around, something put around neck, whatever- and it is unlikely to show up in a toxicology test, after a relatively short amount of time. imo, speculation.

If the power was cut off..would it be through the whole house? The consoles for my security are not in main power box. If all the power is out, how can one see to commit murder/suicide or murder? If power is turned off, a good security system will go on battery operation. Just saying....I don’t think the above scenario is what happened, but somewhat plausible. The murderer could have been wearing those see in the dark glasses...not sure what they are called.

Edit- night vision glasses

 

[dotr]

If the power was cut off..would it be through the whole house? The consoles for my security are not in main power box. If all the power is out, how can one see to commit murder/suicide or murder? If power is turned off, a good security system will go on battery operation. Just saying....I don’t think the above scenario is what happened, but somewhat plausible. The murderer could have been wearing those see in the dark glasses...not sure what they are called.

Edit- night vision glasses

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/101215/firefield-nightvision-monocular

Keeps target in sight when daylight subsides
• Ergonomic, easy-grip design for quick and easy operation
• PULSE IR illuminator optimizes quality and resolution
• High-magnification and large-objective lens enhances night vision

Keep your target in clear sight when daylight fades with Firefield's Nightvision Monocular. Ergonomic, easy-grip construction offers a steady hold. Power-saving PULSE IR illuminator partners with a large-objective, high-magnification lens to supply optimum visibility after sunset and high-quality resolution as well as image quality. Rubber-armoured, weather-resistant housing for exceptional durability. Lightweight, compact size is easy to use in a variety of applications including nighttime hunting, search, surveillance and general observation.

 

[BUF]

Mr. Sherman most likely had a number of attorneys on retainer with all the litigation he was involved with...quite sure they are advising the family on the proper protocol to take on this matter and wrote the statement that the family released.

 

[seeking the truth]

I’m having a very hard time with the idea this was a murder/suicide. Just the logistics and physical effort it would take to move an already deceased person to another part of the house and then suspend it with a belt from a waist high railing (as seen online in photos of the lap pool area) seems nearly impossible. Mr Sherman is in his mid seventies and his wife was not a physically small woman. Then there’s the matter of the jackets. How does a person hang himself when his hands and arms are restrained behind his body? This is assuming the belts/jackets mentioned in the print media are factual. The whole scenario is baffling. I hope the police have their best investigators on this case. My gut tells me they will find those responsible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snoop Sister]

It probably is clear glass at the end of the pool, but does it look like a mirror to anyone?
If it is a mirror, it would make me think of what might be seen, if they were facing in that direction...

https://globalnews.ca/news/3921034/suspicious-death-of-apotex-founder-barry-sherman-and-wi

I am on an iPad and I enlarged the above pic. It looks like I can see in the next room...there appears to be a smalll table in that room. That is all I can see...maybe the sauna? I can’t seem to find the layout of the house that was posted earlier.

 

[Doghairrules]

There was staff in the home between the likely time of death and the discovery of the bodies. I'm sure they would have cleaned up anything that needed to be cleaned up, so information about bodily fluids from time of death would likely have to come from staff rather than DNA.

But would they just clean up body fluids? I know I wouldn’t. I would be very concerned if I came upon body fluids in a house I was cleaning.

 

[Tortoise]

I am on an iPad and I enlarged the above pic. It looks like I can see in the next room...there appears to be a smalll table in that room. That is all I can see...maybe the sauna? I can’t seem to find the layout of the house that was posted earlier.

I've posted it right above at #1025

 

[VGL]

Usually with expensive homes the only people allowed to look are preapproved. No one needs looky loos which are often the case with an open house

I interpreted the Open House to a be a party for friends and neighbours, a holiday get together and not real estate related

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...n-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/

Sarah Alvi lives with her family across the road from the Sherman home and has known the couple for four years. She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.

 

[Grey-St]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...atheist-convictions-in-unfinished-memoir.html

Thanks, I was just about to post this! I'm wondering: why would this memoir be submitted as part of a motion in a lawsuit?

A partial draft of the memoir, called “Legacy of Thoughts,” was submitted as part of Sherman’s motion for summary judgment in a lawsuit brought by his orphaned cousins. He described the manuscript as his observations on philosophy, Canadian politics and the pharmaceutical industry.

 

[liz b.]

To make a statement? Similar to a mob execution?

{DK about a statement. Mob killings where I grew up were often messy, bloody affairs, sometimes right out in the open...this just doesn't have that vibe for me ? Although I do think of a stone sociopath if it was a double homicide. jmo

 

[Tortoise]

I was going to say how would a killer who has come prepared with two belts know there would be a suitable place to hang them from by the pool, but I suppose they've had that photo available for anyone to look up in the property details?

 

[Satchie]

I’m having a very hard time with the idea this was a murder/suicide. Just the logistics and physical effort it would take to move an already deceased person to another part of the house and then suspend it with a belt from a waist high railing (as seen online in photos of the lap pool area) seems nearly impossible. Mr Sherman is in his mid seventies and his wife was not a physically small woman. Then there’s the matter of the jackets. How does a person hang himself when his hands and arms are restrained behind his body? This is assuming the belts/jackets mentioned in the print media are factual. The whole scenario is baffling. I hope the police have their best investigators on this case. My gut tells me they will find those responsible.

There has been lots of discussion a few pages back about how some suicides find ways to tie their own hands to ensure the outcome is fatal, and how a jacket might be used that way.

The key point for me is, if the jackets story is true, police would have seen them right away, 5 days ago. If they were restraining the victims, in such a manner that only an 3rd party could have put them on, so that it was impossible for Honey and/or Barry to have put them that way themselves, then I believe police would have declared the deaths homicides when the COD was announced on Monday.

I don't think police would shilly-shally with 'suspicious deaths', playing dumb, let the murderer(s) think they were getting away with it, when they had a piece of incontrovertible evidence that a double murder has been committed.

 

[mr_chip72]

From the early reports, the realtor was trying to reach them to set up a viewing of the home. Don't know where the idea of Open House came from but some expensive homes do have Open Houses. A very ordinary, regular (even fixer upper) house in Toronto runs about $1M, so even though their home was large and elaborate it wasn't the fanciest or in the most posh of areas. It is just off Bayview/York Mills, a lovely area IMO.
Looky Loos always come, even if its to see your colour palette or your garden. A realtor will always ask for your name and phone number, for future contacts but many people give a fake name or number, esp the Looky Loos.

I can totally refute this. I live in the neighbourhood and even used the same realtor Barry Cohen to sell my previous home and buy my current home. When I sold my previous place the first thing the agent did was schedule an open house.