IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #78

[Jabarn]

yes! this is the case..possible motivation? .... ANGER...

a rageaholic murder... interesting isn't it?

MOO

There is no way to not see the similarities.

 

[TeaTime]

Seems very logical to me that the witness could not tell if the eyes were brown, hazel or green but knew that they definitely were not blue. What is so hard to understand about this?

Blue eyes stand out and are easy to differentiate from other colors.

Is the Logansport mental facility just for criminals in the justice system or does it serve the public as well?

 

[Rott Mom]

The one thing that really baffles me is if BG is a transient, how in the world was he so confident to walk
on those train tracks?
IMO - he had to have known that walking that train track wouldn't hurt him.

 

[Jabarn]

Seems very logical to me that the witness could not tell if the eyes were brown, hazel or green but knew that they definitely were not blue. What is so hard to understand about this?

Blue eyes stand out and are easy to differentiate from other colors.

Is the Logansport mental facility just for criminals in the justice system or does it serve the public as well?

I get it, eye color is hard to see if you aren’t up close. It still stymies me the witness said that despite not understanding the exact color of the eyes, they were not blue, and that was shared to the media.

It makes me wonder about the use of DNA technology in this case, is all.

GN, everyone. Hopefully, tomorrow will be the day.

 

[Rott Mom]

I get it, eye color is hard to see if you aren’t up close. It still stymies me the witness said that despite not understanding the exact color of the eyes, they were not blue, and that was shared to the media.

It makes me wonder about the use of DNA technology in this case, is all.






GN, everyone. Hopefully, tomorrow will be the day.

fftobed:

 

[Steleheart]

Seems very logical to me that the witness could not tell if the eyes were brown, hazel or green but knew that they definitely were not blue. What is so hard to understand about this?

Blue eyes stand out and are easy to differentiate from other colors.

Is the Logansport mental facility just for criminals in the justice system or does it serve the public as well?

I agree. Especially if the witness has blue eyes or has a loved one with blue eyes.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I get it, eye color is hard to see if you aren’t up close. It still stymies me the witness said that despite not understanding the exact color of the eyes, they were not blue, and that was shared to the media.

It makes me wonder about the use of DNA technology in this case, is all.

GN, everyone. Hopefully, tomorrow will be the day.

Hi, Jabarn,

<modsnip>For what it&#8217;s worth, I know people whose eyes could be described as &#8220;greyish, greenish, hazelly kinda brown&#8221; so the statement &#8220;definitely not blue&#8221; doesn&#8217;t even phase me.
JMO.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

IMO sometimes incarcerated people stick around the city or town they served their sentence in. They have no where to go after after a history of violent sexual behavior.

I completely agree. I’ve tracked several & yes indeed they stayed in the city they were incarcerated in. MOO


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[gregjrichards]

<modsnip>

The one thing that really baffles me is if BG is a transient, how in the world was he so confident to walk
on those train tracks?
IMO - he had to have known that walking that train track wouldn't hurt him.

He has walked that trail many times and knows it like the back of his hand. This knowledge helped him escape.

I'm guessing not everyone wants to be in front of cameras, pain exposed to the world, and I can't blame them.

Agreed.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Whether or not DN is involved, IMO this would be the dilemma KN was in - if she saw the sketch.
It looks like him, he is terrifying and will injure you in a rage, but she can expect an endless death threat if she contacted the police and he gets out.

I mentioned that somewhere, many many threads ago about people not turning BG in out of fear of him. I wish there were some way to keep people safe so they can just turn this monster in already.
Also, how do we know there isn’t such a person? Maybe BG threatened their life, that if they turn him in, they’ll be next? We don’t know & that makes this case even tougher.


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[gregjrichards]

I mentioned that somewhere, many many threads ago about people not turning BG in out of fear of him. I wish there were some way to keep people safe so they can just turn this monster in already.
Also, how do we know there isn&#8217;t such a person? Maybe BG threatened their life, that if they turn him in, they&#8217;ll be next? We don&#8217;t know & that makes this case even tougher.


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It&#8217;s possible but I would hope they would realise police protection was available and they would do the right thing by getting this monster off the streets before more minors are killed.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

It’s possible but I would hope they would realise police protection was available and they would do the right thing by getting this monster off the streets before more minors are killed.

Is it possible they really don’t know if LE can protect them? Maybe LE could relieve any anxiety by explaining to the public that they can help whoever turns BG in?
What bothers me is the reward money has not been mentioned & just the fact that it was in the early stages & nothing has come from it, is troubling MOO


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[emptybottles]

DN was caught in SC returning to the scene.

Yes. 5 convictions for public indecency. One in Spartanburg, 4 in Camp Lejeune. He was placed on probation. Then in S. Carolina he was caught the day after committing public exposure (public indecency #6) and was sentenced to 3 years in prison.

I believe when they were canvassing the state checking with virtually all RSO, I think that first visit was May 1 or 2nd but it could have been the end of April, he didn't answer, they called the office to confirm he lived there and the landlord told them yes he did. They came back on May 12 and again no answer and the landlord said he had moved out.

Your dates are incorrect. LE interviewed the landlord on July 18th after DN was FTA for his July 17th court appearance. They thought he had lived there in May, June and July but the landlord told them DN actually had checked out in late April. They were definitely in Colorado mid-May according to KN's FB posts. Remember that KN has an FTA warrant out for her arrest in IN also.

DN was in the Morgan Co jail from Feb 24th to some time in early March from what I can find.

DN's last registry check-in was April 10 and then he registered his address at the Greenwood motel on April 12th.

On April 25th DN was pulled over with a suspended license and pot, for probably the 4th or 5th time in 2 years. He was thrown in the Johnson Co jail and KN bailed him out that night. I found her FB comment on the JC jail website thanking the staff for helping her do the paperwork. http://www.usacountyrecords.com/state/indiana/jails/johnson-county-in-jail-inmates/ look in the comments posted on April 25th.

DN's court appearance was scheduled for July 17th, he was FTA since he had long fled to CO. So it was July 18th that they went looking for him and then interviewed the landlord. The Delphi sketch being released July 17th was just a coincidence. DN had already been in Colorado for over 2 months.

We don't know when he left, but I have always thought he got spooked when he found out LE had come by to talk to him and he used his brother's murder as an excuse.

I'm guessing they left Indiana between April 26th-30th for Colorado. Rent was due May 1. He did not pay for May.
DN knew he was going back to prison when he was busted April 25th and hoped to be long gone by the time his July court date came around. Because KN had an FTA also they were going to loose their kids if they stayed in IN.

Even if he took off the coat he had borrowed I don't see him just walking back down the trail.

Yeah, I just don't see that happening (walking back down trail)... unless their were multiple assailants and his part in the crime was done. I wouldn't say murder for hire, but perhaps his part in the crime as simply finding victims and pushing them into the hands of those who performed the actual murder. That is wild speculation.

I just cannot figure a motive for DN in the Delphi crime unless it was to cover his tracks for another public indecency charge. Maybe he exposed himself to the girls? He could have been fulfilling a pledge to a gang, or my other thoughts are that it was simple rage towards KN after she posted that FB message on Feb 13th about the baby. Rage that he could not be with his pregnant wife. That is the one I lean towards the most.

The question is... if it was DN, why was he in Delphi 1 1/2 hr from where he normally stayed? I bet KN can answer this question.

And I have also wondered about their trip from IN to CO. In a normal trip you would expect KN to post pictures of the sights or of them on the way there since they were going to start fresh.

They were both fugitives at this point and this was no family vacation to find a lost brother's killer. The killer of DN's brother was caught a few days after the murder, mid-January. There were multiple witnesses to the fight, and his brother's killer was in jail awaiting trial. There was no question in anyone's mind that his brothers killer was going to prison.

I'm kind of surprised KN posted FB messages in Denver considering they both had FTA's in IN. Her affinity for FB also leads me to believe she probably has multiple FB accounts we do not know about.

The only thing I might disagree with you on is the COD connection to TW. He was killed with a .22, right?

When a horse breaks a leg he dies of a gunshot too. Not saying that's true. But I don't have anything to tell me it is not. Like an autopsy report.

Of course we don't know the girls COD. But LE spokesperson said there are many similarities.

I think you can answer this question yourself now?

the charge of having the weapon at a college.

I believe this charge comes from the Nations stopping at a popular elementary school playground in Woodland Park for their kids to play. Perhaps this is where KN spent time with her kids while DN was up at Mt Herman with the car.
https://goo.gl/maps/TdPEvCKARrQ2
All of the schools in Woodland Park are on Rampart Range Rd as you come down from Rampart Range where they were reportedly camping. They couldn't have missed it.

Last thing. Some of you were asking about dilated pupils. There is another drug. Adrenaline.

 

[kkdj]

Great postings happening! :loveyou:

 

[gregjrichards]

Is it possible they really don&#8217;t know if LE can protect them? Maybe LE could relieve any anxiety by explaining to the public that they can help whoever turns BG in?
What bothers me is the reward money has not been mentioned & just the fact that it was in the early stages & nothing has come from it, is troubling MOO


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I think the reward was mentioned by Dr. Phil in the episode that aired recently but you&#8217;re correct I don&#8217;t think it has been publicised enough.

Your post got me thinking about another situation what if the person who knows who BG is is also a criminal possibly for sex crimes and won&#8217;t come forward. I hope not.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I think the reward was mentioned by Dr. Phil in the episode that aired recently but you’re correct I don’t think it has been publicised enough.

Your post got me thinking about another situation what if the person who knows who BG is is also a criminal possibly for sex crimes and won’t come forward. I hope not.

That is entirely possible. It seems that these types of criminals have more access to each other due to the internet. Also, with the local packing company hiring them, they can communicate quite easily with each other knowing they are cut from the same cloth, so to speak...very disturbing IMO


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[ocgrad]

Yes. 5 convictions for public indecency. One in Spartanburg, 4 in Camp Lejeune. He was placed on probation. Then in S. Carolina he was caught the day after committing public exposure (public indecency #6) and was sentenced to 3 years in prison.



Your dates are incorrect. LE interviewed the landlord on July 18th after DN was FTA for his July 17th court appearance. They thought he had lived there in May, June and July but the landlord told them DN actually had checked out in late April. They were definitely in Colorado mid-May according to KN's FB posts. Remember that KN has an FTA warrant out for her arrest in IN also.

DN was in the Morgan Co jail from Feb 24th to some time in early March from what I can find.

DN's last registry check-in was April 10 and then he registered his address at the Greenwood motel on April 12th.

On April 25th DN was pulled over with a suspended license and pot, for probably the 4th or 5th time in 2 years. He was thrown in the Johnson Co jail and KN bailed him out that night. I found her FB comment on the JC jail website thanking the staff for helping her do the paperwork. http://www.usacountyrecords.com/state/indiana/jails/johnson-county-in-jail-inmates/ look in the comments posted on April 25th.

DN's court appearance was scheduled for July 17th, he was FTA since he had long fled to CO. So it was July 18th that they went looking for him and then interviewed the landlord. The Delphi sketch being released July 17th was just a coincidence. DN had already been in Colorado for over 2 months.



I'm guessing they left Indiana between April 26th-30th for Colorado. Rent was due May 1. He did not pay for May.
DN knew he was going back to prison when he was busted April 25th and hoped to be long gone by the time his July court date came around. Because KN had an FTA also they were going to loose their kids if they stayed in IN.



Yeah, I just don't see that happening (walking back down trail)... unless their were multiple assailants and his part in the crime was done. I wouldn't say murder for hire, but perhaps his part in the crime as simply finding victims and pushing them into the hands of those who performed the actual murder. That is wild speculation.

I just cannot figure a motive for DN in the Delphi crime unless it was to cover his tracks for another public indecency charge. Maybe he exposed himself to the girls? He could have been fulfilling a pledge to a gang, or my other thoughts are that it was simple rage towards KN after she posted that FB message on Feb 13th about the baby. Rage that he could not be with his pregnant wife. That is the one I lean towards the most.

The question is... if it was DN, why was he in Delphi 1 1/2 hr from where he normally stayed? I bet KN can answer this question.



They were both fugitives at this point and this was no family vacation to find a lost brother's killer. The killer of DN's brother was caught a few days after the murder, mid-January. There were multiple witnesses to the fight, and his brother's killer was in jail awaiting trial. There was no question in anyone's mind that his brothers killer was going to prison.

I'm kind of surprised KN posted FB messages in Denver considering they both had FTA's in IN. Her affinity for FB also leads me to believe she probably has multiple FB accounts we do not know about.

When a horse breaks a leg he dies of a gunshot too. Not saying that's true. But I don't have anything to tell me it is not. Like an autopsy report.

I think you can answer this question yourself now?



I believe this charge comes from the Nations stopping at a popular elementary school playground in Woodland Park for their kids to play. Perhaps this is where KN spent time with her kids while DN was up at Mt Herman with the car.
https://goo.gl/maps/TdPEvCKARrQ2
All of the schools in Woodland Park are on Rampart Range Rd as you come down from Rampart Range where they were reportedly camping. They couldn't have missed it.

Last thing. Some of you were asking about dilated pupils. There is another drug. Adrenaline.

Here is the document I saw that details when LE contacted the manager at the Greenwood hotel trying to verify it was actually his address on May 1. Then although they made several more attempts they didn't speak to the manager again until July when they were told he left on May 12.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TDx0QFggcMAA&usg=AOvVaw3qheFytARp_pjSEO3LghnM

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I want to discuss the Dr. Phil show a little more. I hope it got the word out to the public, many of which would have never heard about this case. A lot of people watch Dr. Phil religiously. Hopefully it helps. I think, quite possibly, there were some special messages there too. So, the program was twofold immo.

Hi All!!! Happy Holidays to All!!!

Been a little busy lately so I haven't posted and I'm like 2 threads behind. Gosh you all we thru the last thread at lightening speed.

Hubby said a friend in Wisconsin posted the BG sketch on their FaceBook page, which means YES!!!! YES!!! YES!!! THe show did what it was intending to do and that is get the word out to the public as you mentioned in your post kkdj!

Lets all hope and pray this sicko will be caught soon, and in my opinion not soon enough!

 

[Bird of Paradise]

There is no way to not see the similarities.

On the contrary. I don't see the similarities at all.

<modsnip>

 

[emptybottles]

Here is the document I saw that details when LE contacted the manager at the Greenwood hotel trying to verify it was actually his address on May 1. Then although they made several more attempts they didn't speak to the manager again until July when they were told he left on May 12.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TDx0QFggcMAA&usg=AOvVaw3qheFytARp_pjSEO3LghnM

Yes, you are correct. I had May 12th in my notes but couldn't find the link to where I found it. I was going off memory and thought the landlord said he left at the end of April. So that leaves May 12th - May 16th for travel to Colorado.

Makes you wonder about the KN FB post about having everything stolen on the way to Colorado. Sold at pawn shops for gas money is more likely.

Thank you that helps fit things into the timeline.