Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[RAISINISBACK]

Unless the police have seen a video of the event happening or confirmed a note verifying in one of the victim's handwriting, there is no concrete evidence from day one. Police have to go through various scenarios and theories and, from my experience with them, the first one is not always the correct one until they have completely investigated the premises and autopsy results. While sources may have had the theory of murder-suicide, the did so before interviewing family, friends of coworkers. After that source saying the MS theory, evidence came out about the fact that the Shermans had a lot of near future plans including a daughter's wedding and going to Florida. That is evidence as well. And we have not heard of any previous violence or animosity between the Shermans yet. I am not saying their life was perfect but if they had no recent history of issues, then motive for a murder suicide is questionable. I am not saying that it is impossible but makes it less likely.

Of course the children are going to want the image of their parents to be positive but how do you know that they don't have valuable information to the case. Assuming that because the children don't live with the parents is no indication on how close they were or weren't.

So many pieces of conflicting information is out there (no security cameras, camera in the pool area turned off, etc) that is it is very difficult for the public to know which is true to base theories on or which is not.

Does anyone know if there was an open house or showings prior to the deaths? Do we know if any previous staff members were fired? Do we know any connections of the current staff ? All these can help explain how someone can get access to the home with out a break in or know the layout of the house to plan a murder.

Someone previously brought up an interesting point about why the bodies were taken upstairs to remove them from the front door instead of the garage which was next to the pool. I am not sure if anyone confirmed if there was outdoor access from the pool to the garage or other outdoor area. If so, it is interesting that they would take the bodies upstairs to remove them hinting that the other crime scene may be the garage.

JMO

BBM

My son and grandsons do not live with us. As a family we are very close. Hubby spends hours on the phone with our son every evening. I call him several times a day. My grandsons call both of us every day. MY DIL and Grand DIL calls us both every day. I talk to my sisters and nieces and nephews several times a week. We live in a very small town and all of us ( my son, grandsons, siblings and most of their kids and grandchildren all live in this town within blocks of each other. We see each other often at the one grocery store in town and at the one convenience store. They come to visit very often.

They know a lot about us. For example they know mom's knee hurts during cold weather. They know dad's back hurts a lot from an old injury. They know when we are sick. They know why we are sick what medications we take. They know when we mow the lawn, when we take a drive to the nearest big city and why. They know when we go out to dinner or buy new furniture or cars. They know that mom thinks Alabama will win the national football championship and dad insists Oklahoma will. I do not think a family could be closer than mine is.

But what none of them ever know is the rare occasions when hubby and I argue. They never know what we argue about. If we have financial discussions or financial problems they never know about it. Hubby and I have at times went weeks upset with each other over some thing. But when we are around them we are all smiles and pleasantries and we strive to never let them know there is tension between us.

So no, I do not think the Sherman kids knew everything that was wrong in their marriage and I do not think the kids knew about any problems they were having or why. I think those kids are just like my own son and grandsons. busy with their own families and lives and focused on their own problems and raising their own kids.

 

[Wondergirl]

The day before The Sherman's were discovered dead, an article was published in the Toronto Life Real Estate, announcing to readers that he is one of Canada's Richest People.

Courtesy of the snapshot from Wayback Machine on December 14th, 2017.



Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion


Barry Sherman, founder and chairman of the generic drug manufacturer Apotex, is one of Canada’s richest people, with a Forbes-estimated fortune of about $3 billion. In 1985, he and his wife, Honey, bought a parcel of land in North York, at 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401, for $390,000. The home they built on that land, a fabulously ’80s-looking six-bedroom mansion, is now on the market for $6,988,000.

Image from Google Earth

The house is a poured-concrete colossus, designed by architect Jack Winston, with 12,440 square feet of living space. It has indoor and outdoor pools, a sauna and a tennis court. There’s a grand entrance hall with a chandelier and a curved staircase. Glass block, a translucent building material popular in the ’80s and ’90s that isn’t deployed as much in newer construction, is used liberally throughout the house to introduce light into private spaces, including the opulent master bathroom. Sherman’s agent, Elise Stern, didn’t respond to requests for comment on the sale.

Sherman might be selling to move a few blocks south. A large home in Forest Hill, located on a corner lot behind a privacy screen of tall trees, sold late last year, and is now registered in Honey Sherman’s name.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017121...ry-sherman-selling-modern-north-york-mansion/

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Well I can't compare this with terrorists or these videos. Barry was old and to do this to a wife he was married to for years on end and being 75 it's hard to imagine him going through this. I think he would be too old and tired. MOO

BBM

In all those years of marriage there had to be some arguments about certain things that came up over and over. No marriage is perfect no matter how long a period it is. Barry may have resented her dragging him away from his work to go to Florida. He may have been angry at her for spending a lot on a new house. He may have been very upset that she wanted to move out of the house they had lived in for many years.

By the accounts of his co-workers the man worked very hard and very long hours every day. Some said 7 days a week. Then he attended numerous parties and social functions his wife held or went to.

Doesn't sound like old and tired to me. In fact it sounds like a much younger man in his twenties would have a hard time keeping up with him.

 

[Peace777]

They check for weapons in sewers routinely

But wouldn't they only look for a "weapon" if they knew 1 had been used in committing a crime? Or could it be something is missing from the home (the children of BS and HS might have said such and such is missing) JMO

 

[Lilibet]

BBM

My son and grandsons do not live with us. As a family we are very close. Hubby spends hours on the phone with our son every evening. I call him several times a day. My grandsons call both of us every day. MY DIL and Grand DIL calls us both every day. I talk to my sisters and nieces and nephews several times a week. We live in a very small town and all of us ( my son, grandsons, siblings and most of their kids and grandchildren all live in this town within blocks of each other. We see each other often at the one grocery store in town and at the one convenience store. They come to visit very often.

They know a lot about us. For example they know mom's knee hurts during cold weather. They know dad's back hurts a lot from an old injury. They know when we are sick. They know why we are sick what medications we take. They know when we mow the lawn, when we take a drive to the nearest big city and why. They know when we go out to dinner or buy new furniture or cars. They know that mom thinks Alabama will win the national football championship and dad insists Oklahoma will. I do not think a family could be closer than mine is.

But what none of them ever know is the rare occasions when hubby and I argue. They never know what we argue about. If we have financial discussions or financial problems they never know about it. Hubby and I have at times went weeks upset with each other over some thing. But when we are around them we are all smiles and pleasantries and we strive to never let them know there is tension between us.

So no, I do not think the Sherman kids knew everything that was wrong in their marriage and I do not think the kids knew about any problems they were having or why. I think those kids are just like my own son and grandsons. busy with their own families and lives and focused on their own problems and raising their own kids.

BBM

Great post! I agree with your point about keeping some things private. But I have to teasingly ask...how does anyone in your family get anything done? You’re all on the phone all the time!

 

[kay74]

but wouldn't they only look for a "weapon" if they knew 1 had been used in committing a crime? Or could it be something is missing from the home (the children of bs and hs might have said such and such is missing) jmo

bingo!

 

[gregjrichards]

The day before The Sherman's were discovered dead, an article was published in the Toronto Life Real Estate, announcing to readers that he is one of Canada's Richest People.

Courtesy of the snapshot from Wayback Machine on December 14th, 2017.



Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion


Barry Sherman, founder and chairman of the generic drug manufacturer Apotex, is one of Canada’s richest people, with a Forbes-estimated fortune of about $3 billion. In 1985, he and his wife, Honey, bought a parcel of land in North York, at 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401, for $390,000. The home they built on that land, a fabulously ’80s-looking six-bedroom mansion, is now on the market for $6,988,000.

Image from Google Earth

The house is a poured-concrete colossus, designed by architect Jack Winston, with 12,440 square feet of living space. It has indoor and outdoor pools, a sauna and a tennis court. There’s a grand entrance hall with a chandelier and a curved staircase. Glass block, a translucent building material popular in the ’80s and ’90s that isn’t deployed as much in newer construction, is used liberally throughout the house to introduce light into private spaces, including the opulent master bathroom. Sherman’s agent, Elise Stern, didn’t respond to requests for comment on the sale.

Sherman might be selling to move a few blocks south. A large home in Forest Hill, located on a corner lot behind a privacy screen of tall trees, sold late last year, and is now registered in Honey Sherman’s name.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017121...ry-sherman-selling-modern-north-york-mansion/

It really is alarming the fact the fact it was advertised the house was for sale along with the weath figure and security at the home being totally inadequate. I wonder how well it was publicly known the Sherman’s lived at this address and how wealthy they were.

But wouldn't they only look for a "weapon" if they knew 1 had been used in committing a crime? Or could it be something is missing from the home (the children of BS and HS might have said such and such is missing) JMO

I keep thinking they are looking for gloves because you can bet if this was a crime by a third party gloves were used and none of their fingerprints were left.

 

[Jennifer17]

It really is alarming the fact the fact it was advertised the house was for sale along with the weath figure and security at the home being totally inadequate. I wonder how well it was publicly known the Sherman’s lived at this address and how wealthy they were.



I keep thinking they are looking for gloves because you can bet if this was a crime by a third party gloves were used and none of their fingerprints were left.

Or you could take the gloves with you put some hair dye on them and drop them into a garbage bin. There would be gloves like that in a lot of bins. There would be a myriad of ways to get rid of gloves without throwing them into a storm water drain, near the crime scene.

 

[Wondergirl]

Did the Sherman's "normally" have their artwork lit up on a "normal" evening?

This statement seems to indicate that the Sherman's died sometime after dark but before bedtime. JMO

Lights were on inside the home when the bodies were discovered Friday, as police officers worked inside, illuminating what appeared to be a Frida Kahlo canvas.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...n-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/

 

[kay74]

It really is alarming the fact the fact it was advertised the house was for sale along with the weath figure and security at the home being totally inadequate. I wonder how well it was publicly known the Sherman’s lived at this address and how wealthy they were.



I keep thinking they are looking for gloves because you can bet if this was a crime by a third party gloves were used and none of their fingerprints were left.

I agree, it says one of the richest people in Canada and then their home address. Yikes.

 

[tarabull]

Trudeau takes part in Toronto-York Spadina subway ribbon-cutting
December 15, 2017

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/12/15/york-spadina-subway-ribbon-cutting/

 

[JDG]

But wouldn't they only look for a "weapon" if they knew 1 had been used in committing a crime? Or could it be something is missing from the home (the children of BS and HS might have said such and such is missing) JMO

I doubt the children have been near the house. Its an active crime scene. It had been stripped down and staged for sale.
Just some thoughts. IMO

 

[Cdndm]

bingo!

I know we are taking about items that might be missing from the house but just a thought: If someone surprised me on my way into the house or immediately as I entered the house and I wasn't able to go through the normal routine of "home entering" my children would immediately be able to tell: my purse and keys wouldn't be in their "usual spot". My cell phone wouldn't be plugged in. My children would be able to identify that things were not "right". LE are trained. They would have asked these questions. And they would have wanted to put their hands on the sets of keys HS and BS would have used to drive home and enter the house. What if one of these sets of keys are unaccounted for?

 

[Jennifer17]

I know we are taking about items that might be missing from the house but just a thought: If someone surprised me on my way into the house or immediately as I entered the house and I wasn't able to go through the normal routine of "home entering" my children would immediately be able to tell: my purse and keys wouldn't be in their "usual spot". My cell phone wouldn't be plugged in. My children would be able to identify that things were not "right". LE are trained. They would have asked these questions. And they would have wanted to put their hands on the sets of keys HS and BS would have used to drive home and enter the house. What if one of these sets of keys are unaccounted for?

I am of the same vintage as the Shermans, but I am not sure that my living out of home for over twenty years children would have any idea what my coming home actions would be. I see my children often, but I am usually home when they come. I don't normally enter my home after they do.

 

[Cdndm]

I doubt the children have been near the house. Its an active crime scene. It had been stripped down and staged for sale.
Just some thoughts. IMO

And now I am thinking the timing of listing the house coincides with their planned trip to FLA. What better time to list the house than when you are going to be out of it for a few weeks and your life won't be interupted by real estate showings?

Last Monday, Ms. Sherman had e-mailed friends to book social dates on the couple's upcoming Florida trip.

"Looking forward to getting together in Florida. I am coming south Monday, December 18 - Friday, January 12," she wrote in the email.

"Barry is coming south for Monday December 25 & going home with me Jan. 12. Please let me know your dates south asap so i can place in my calendar... Looking forward to hearing back asap. Xoxo Honey"
[from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-and-wife-as-murder-suicide/article37357096/]

 

[JDG]

IF they were drugged/garrotted as soon as they came through the door, they'd likely drop their keys and her purse in a reflexive motion and grab at their throats. IF that were true, the keys were on the floor not far from where it happened. Maybe thats why they think/thought Honey was killed elsewhere, her purse/keys may be away from his. Mind you, from memory of the Toronto Life article, they seemed to have polished stone floors so things slide across. That could indicate that Honey got further into the house and Barry was closer to the entrance. Not a biological find, as suggested but her purse on the floor. just some thoughts. IMO

 

[DarkSkink]

But wouldn't they only look for a "weapon" if they knew 1 had been used in committing a crime? Or could it be something is missing from the home (the children of BS and HS might have said such and such is missing) JMO

Look at the lack of resources devoted to this search, the lack of concern about tampering or contamination, how close the reporters and photograhers could get to the worker and officer, the informal chit chat with reporters and the fact LE admit that they were acting out of an "abundance of caution".

This has no appearance of being a serious search. It seems more to create an appearance of having made a search.

 

[Researchnut]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nnector-with-best-rolodex-in-the-country.html

 

[JDG]

Darkskink,

just curious as to why you think theres a lack of resources being used? I would think the opposite, in a double murder or murder/suicide of people who didn't seem to have any reason for a murder/suicide. IMO

 

[DarkSkink]

Darkskink,

just curious as to why you think theres a lack of resources being used? I would think the opposite, in a double murder or murder/suicide of people who didn't seem to have any reason for a murder/suicide. IMO

The lack of resources devoted to the sewer search if they truly suspected something of value was down there.

They didn't close off the streets, or keep reporters back. A pump truck, and an officer. If there was a knife, glove, or gun down there, they'd do more to protect the integrity of the area, and maybe send cameras down before accidentally destroying evidence by sucking it up into the big vat of mess.

Rather than expecting to find evidence, this smacks of them expecting they will be questioned on the thoroughness of their investigation later.