Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[JayFriend]

So I have not read all 200 pages of this case, but the one thing I am wondering (not sure if it has been answered) is how they would have put the jackets on that way themselves.

They would not have. It appears to be a way of temporarily disabling someone. Or else the jackets could have ended that way if they were dragged head first on their backs to the location.

 

[juli99]

I interpret semi sitting as feet on the floor, and the body not quite in a seated position minus the chair.

So... BS grabs the bar, raises himself up and puts his head in the noose, then lets go so he is suspended and quickly slides the jacket arms down behind his back. I guess it's possible.

 

[human]

With all of the 'minor variances' they were allowed, I imagine a LOT of developers and rich people who want a new house, will be lined up to buy the property WITH the plans. Not certain but once given, doubt those variances (and there a quite a few) can be rescinded. What a deal.....

Where I lived in MN, variances go with a property unless they are not instituted within a certain time period, usually one or two years.

Where I live in a Third World country, it is about the same. Interesting to me how property issues have similar rules in many nations.

 

[kay74]

Think! If this was suicide Barry would not have his jacket pulled behind his back. He was not crazy.

 

[JayFriend]

Searching sewer and roof tells use that the homicide team is doing a thorough investigation. That would include finding out where the couple was on the last day they were seen. That doesn't mean that police believe this is a homicide, but it does mean that they are responding to the family's claim that it must be a homicide.

Of course. In today's litigious climate LE would have to actively explore all possible avenues, even if they don't feel they're valid, The billions of dollars available to the family for independent investigation must scare TPS into stretching their budget to cover all possible bases.

 

[juli99]

Think! If this was suicide Barry would not have his jacket pulled behind his back. He was not crazy.

Why not? I am interested in the jackets because it seems unusual. This study shows that suicide victims sometimes do restrain their hands.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19237850

 

[Snoopster]

Sorry, I don't have the time to keep up on this case but I wanted to say that, wouldn't it be nice if every family of every potential/actual murder victim had the ability to hire their own private investigators if they thought things weren't going to their expectations?

I'm sure this has already been posted, but...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/retired-toronto-detective-investigate-sherman-death-1.4466413

Perry says right now a private investigator would have very little access to police information, unless they were doing parallel interviews with family and anyone else who could shed some light on what happened in the Shermans' home.

Normally, Perry told CBC Toronto, a private investigator is brought in at the end of a police investigation to review the police file and offer an opinion on whether or not detectives might have missed anything.

The rich really do have some advantages over the average Joe.

 

[matou]

Why not? I am interested in the jackets because it seems unusual. This study shows that suicide victims sometimes do restrain their hands.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19237850

I agree. Some people suffocate themselves in plastic bags and tie only one of their hands back to do this. JMO

 

[Tighthead]

I think the estate of the late Green couple (whomever died last) would have to pay the capital gains. The Shermans, once in the house would be using it as their marital home (I presume) but there is always a Capital Gains Tax for someone to pay. We love our taxes.

I hope they didn't avoid it, or if they did.....wish I knew how.

Principal residence exemption. No mystery.

 

[JayFriend]

This whole time I've been picturing them with their backs to the pool on their knees. I don't see how it would work if you were just seated and leaning forward. Actually, I'm not sure I get it at all.

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I've always pictured then hanging from the railing, facing the pool, with their legs in the water,or on that pool cover. For strangulation (or whatever the term used) one would expect the belts or ropes to bear on the front of their necks. But as we've learned, she may not have been strangled there, so it was probably a staged scene,

 

[JayFriend]

Did John Tory cross a line by talking to police about the Sherman investigation?


Under the Police Services Act, no board member is allowed to give orders or directions to any member of the police force, or direct the chief on day to day operations of the force.

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...stigation-former-police-board-chair-says.html

Do you think a family worth billions does not have control of the mayor?

 

[Twinkle]

It’s not about the fob, it’s about the key. Keyless start only became available in the last few years. Honey would have had a key which could have been taken (which was the point of the original comment).

You're kidding, right? We drive a 2010 Toyota Venza that came with a fob. I give up. This is futile.
Please continue with your keys in the sewer or on top of the house theory.


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[foxe]

Going back to the Order of Canada award. Mr. Sherman had already been notified of his nomination. Therefore, presumably, he would have accepted. The ceremony would just be a formal conferring of the award. Technically, he had been informed, he had accepted the nomination. Whether he was alive or not to physically receive the pin could be separate from the nomination. Or could it?

 

[Sphinx]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html
Thu., Dec. 28, 2017

What we know so far about the deaths of the Shermans

The bodies of billionaire Barry Sherman, 75, and Honey Sherman, 70, were found inside their home at 50 Old Colony Rd. on Dec. 15. Here's what we know so far:
-- A Toronto police source told the Star it was the Shermans' real estate agent, who had been helping sell the home recently listed for $6.9 million, who found the bodies, entering the home after being unable to make contact with the couple.
-- Hours after the bodies were discovered, a detective confirmed no suspect was being sought and police have not said otherwise in the days since.
-- A police source confirmed to the Star that an early working theory for investigators was that the deaths were a case of murder-suicide. Barely 24 hours after the Shermans’ bodies were found, their four children released a statement blasting that scenario as a “rumour,” something close friends of the Shermans have also said.
-- Two days after the bodies were found, the Toronto police homicide squad officially took over as lead investigator; however, neither death has been deemed a homicide. Police are still calling the deaths suspicious.
-- Toronto police says the cause of death for both Shermans had been “ligature neck compression.” The pathological term describes death from hanging or strangulation with a ligature — an object such as a belt or rope.
-- A police source told the Star that the couple was found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position.
-- Former homicide cops told the Star that investigators will be exploring all possibilities in the deaths, including murder-suicide, double suicide or double homicide.
-- Still yet to come back are toxicology results, which may help provide new information, including whether any drugs had been ingested.

One thing caught my eye. This police source said they were " found together, by their indoor pool, hanging off a nearby structure in a semi-sitting position."

Is there any possibility that the " structure " was something else, and not the railing we saw in the pictures ? IMO

 

[Sphinx]

You're kidding, right? We drive a 2010 Toyota Venza that came with a fob. I give up. This is futile.
Please continue with your keys in the sewer or on top of the house theory.


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I tried to explain up-thread a bit that it does not matter if it was a set of keys, or a fob -- it is something she could have dropped during an attack, and it could have been put in a pocket by a killer, who forgot, and removed them from the crime scene when he left. The point is, that the keys could be missing, and that could mean the presence of someone besides Honey and Barry, and that could mean murder, not suicide. It is something about the crime scene that just does not add up if they are missing. IMO

 

[kay74]

I agree. Some people suffocate themselves in plastic bags and tie only one of their hands back to do this. JMO

HUH? I don't buy the fact he did this with those jackets to himself or his wife or killed her and himself. It's too cruel. Besides that, like I said before, he was not crazy.

 

[Wondergirl]

There is so much that remains unknown. But what is known is that Barry and Honey died of “ligature neck compression.”


The Shermans were found hanging with men’s belts around their necks in the pool area of their mansion. They were in a sitting position with their legs out straight. Sources describe them has having jackets pulled down over their arms and pulled behind their backs.


Its a head scratcher.

http://torontosun.com/entertainment...inger-about-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

"Could the couple have been victims of a ransom play?"

That right there is a damn good question.

Maybe that theory has already been explored - I'm still not caught up on these threads.

Could a perp have tried to extort a ransom out of Barry for the return of Honey unharmed - and Barry played hardball and called what he thought was a bluff, to both of their demise? Is that far fetched?

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

I interpret semi sitting as feet on the floor, and the body not quite in a seated position minus the chair.

The article a few posts above state legs out straight not hanging over the edge. Makes me think backs are to the pool. IMO

 

[Jasper52]

"Could the couple have been victims of a ransom play?"

That right there is a damn good question.

Maybe that theory has already been explored - I'm still not caught up on these threads.

Could a perp have tried to extort a ransom out of Barry for the return of Honey unharmed - and Barry played hardball and called what he thought was a bluff, to both of their demise? Is that far fetched?

I thought the same and floated that theory early on.

 

[Snoop Sister]

The article a few posts above state legs out straight not hanging over the edge. Makes me think backs are to the pool. IMO

We have over this so many times.