Photos of the Couple - *WARNING: Graphic Images*

[Roselvr]

He has DNA in NamUs.

There are no rule outs on the male

 

[ssnva1]

I posted this on the main thread but thought I’d update here too.

Hi- I emailed his sister back in October and I could have swore I posted her response. I have been caring for my dad who just passed away from cancer so a lot of thingsfrom last year are a blur to me. Anyway the email is below. And FWIW, I still think it’s very good chance it’s him.

I sent-
Hello Diane,

I came across your missing brothers info on a website that I use to read and research missing people/ cold cases.

There’s strong similarities to your brother and the Sumter County Jock Doe that was found murdered in 1976 along with a young female.

Have you looked at this possibility?

Here’s a link to their page.

She replied-
Thank you for your concern. We have seen it and the different pics are confusing, however, no one in the family has olive skin and he did not have thick eyebrows. He was a college student when he went missing so would not have afforded that kind of dental work. Also he was under 6 ft tall. Again thank you though, sincerely Diane

 

[DEB-Z]

No probs, Letsthink...I really hope someone, someday recognises them--it's really bugging me to bits!

Also, I was thinking about that isotope test...would be great, were it possible.

And yeah...wish they'd hurry up with that DNA test...I'm sure I read on here that it was sent in 2007 to a lab in Texas that is backlogged with requests...frustrating!

I was wondering about DNA also...
This case has bothered me for many years...
So sad...

 

[Stella]

I posted this on the main thread but thought I’d update here too.

Hi- I emailed his sister back in October and I could have swore I posted her response. I have been caring for my dad who just passed away from cancer so a lot of thingsfrom last year are a blur to me. Anyway the email is below. And FWIW, I still think it’s very good chance it’s him.

I sent-
Hello Diane,

I came across your missing brothers info on a website that I use to read and research missing people/ cold cases.

There’s strong similarities to your brother and the Sumter County Jock Doe that was found murdered in 1976 along with a young female.

Have you looked at this possibility?

Here’s a link to their page.

She replied-
Thank you for your concern. We have seen it and the different pics are confusing, however, no one in the family has olive skin and he did not have thick eyebrows. He was a college student when he went missing so would not have afforded that kind of dental work. Also he was under 6 ft tall. Again thank you though, sincerely Diane

Thank you. I wish I'd read this first. I just posed a question about the eyebrows on another string; now I have the answer.

 

[Lisa Dee]

Yes they definitely look as though they may be related and I would not doubt that they are siblings. What caught me was that they both share a smiliar if not the same natural arch of the eyebrow, their size and shape of their lips as well as the general shape of the philtrum are also virtualy identical.

DNA confirmed that although they looked similar, they were not related.

 

[Lisa Dee]

I don't see any moles.

 

[Angleterre]

I believe (based on looking at the photographs) that this was a Canadian couple. Her underarms and legs were not shaven. Neither was wearing underwear (sounds wierd but is fairly common in Canada/Europe). Also, there was no personal effects found with them so it seems to me this was a robbery. Also, the gun was found. Even though the serial number had been filed off, I wonder if they can do etch work (or have done) to reveal it. If the guy from the KOA campground was for real, I wonder why he took so long to come forward? Also, if it is true, and the young man's name was Jacques, and he was from Canada, it would imply Quebec or at least eastern Canada. If they did, in fact, come across country through Nebraska and across to SC, they would have passed through a lot of Indian territory which would explain her jewelry and the matchbooks in his pocket. I think it's pretty clear they were hitchhiking.

This case has always bothered me. Even if his parents had disowned him, my God, wouldn't you want to at the very least identify your dead son??

The lack of underwear and non shaved underarms and legs is indicative of some German people imoo

 

[DEB-Z]

The lack of underwear and non shaved underarms and legs is indicative of some German people imoo

Unless they were being held someplace prior to the murder and dumping...
Allows time for hair to grow out and lack of underwear...
Human trafficking, sex slaves, and ritual sex abuse was not widely known about during that time period...
Perhaps trying to escape from someone, or a group of people, that tracked them down...
Will check back again

 

[Triss]

Unless they were being held someplace prior to the murder and dumping...
Allows time for hair to grow out and lack of underwear...
Human trafficking, sex slaves, and ritual sex abuse was not widely known about during that time period...
Perhaps trying to escape from someone, or a group of people, that tracked them down...
Will check back again

I find it unlikely that they were hostages prior to their murder. They were seen buying food at a fruit stand not long before their death. I believe the witness' testimony because the autopsy revealed fruit in their stomachs.

 

[Onaliv]

I find it unlikely that they were hostages prior to their murder. They were seen buying food at a fruit stand not long before their death. I believe the witness' testimony because the autopsy revealed fruit in their stomachs.

My gut feeling (Opinion, nothing to prove it) remains they possibly encountered their killer(s) at the fruit stand and were killed as part of a robbery and probable carjacking. If we are to believe that the Sumter County local (who was found in possession of the murder weapon during a traffic stop) was in any way involved in these killings it would be logical that they had something he wanted. Don’t think there was any sexual attack, so unless it was just a thrill killing the murderer(s) probably got something of value as a result.

 

[Sweetluv]

Autopsy said they were well groomed...
Her outfit and wedged heels don't fit with being hostages.
Plus ice cream or fruit found in their stomach contents.

 

[faerieskye]

I think their ethnicity is Italian. They have a really strong Italian - ancestry face. I don't think they're French or anything else. They could be Argentinian of Italian descent though, but they're certainly Mediterranean Italians.

 

[fridaybaker]

I think their ethnicity is Italian. They have a really strong Italian - ancestry face. I don't think they're French or anything else. They could be Argentinian of Italian descent though, but they're certainly Mediterranean Italians.

I am new to this case, and have read in several posts about photos of the couple. However, any links or threads which indicate photos are blank. Can someone here direct me to any photos related to this case?

 

[fridaybaker]

I do not believe these are Argentineans at all. Having family in Argentina, I can assure you that all women there shave, and that jewelry was not common for that time period. They also do not match the proposed photos. I believe they are French Canadians or Europeans. No one has said that they might be German, and they could very well be as many Germans do have those features as well. They might even have been involved in drug trafficking, which could explain the execution type murders. However, the likely scenario is tourist and hitching around the area. I cant believe no one from those tourist areas have recognized them. I think Canada may hold the key to resolving this case. They could also be American, as some hippies of the time didnt shave their legs either.

Looking at this very old case and very old post, I'm just posting some thoughts, although I think the identities here will likely never be known.

I think a good starting point is the KOA man, who said that he knew the man as "Jock" (Jacques). The victim did have a ring with that first initial. His story about being the son of a "prominent"? doctor who'd had an argument with his father about not wanting to follow in the father's footsteps, is also consistent with LE's assessment of the victim as being affluent. So, we have two significant points given by the KOA man which are consistent with the evidence.

Some things I would have liked to ask LE at the time: Since the KOA man reported that the victim told him he was from Canada, did they explore the KOA man's impressions as to an accent? Would the KOA man recognize a Canadian accent? Did they give him some recordings of regional Canadian speech, for example? Somehow I think not, but I'd love to know. A person claiming that he had met and socialized with the victim on several occasions could have helped at least nail down a country!

Also, it was reported that the woman had unshaven legs. This is consistent with the "olive" skin, for probably quite a few parts of the world, but certainly for southern Germany in the 70's. Now, I'm not sure about the "olive" exactly, but many southern Germans, as well as Eastern Europeans, have what many of us would call olive skin. That may not be the correct term, but it is skin that is darker and tans more easily than the "peaches and cream", "rosy", etc. skin of those with northern European-type descent. Most women throughout Germany in the 70's didn't shave their legs.

What I'd really like to know, though, is why LE reported only on one of the areas that women typically shave! I don't know as much about regional differences in the custom of shaving underarms, but I do know that in Germany, again, it wasn't typical in the 70's. The only other group I know of for sure who don't have that custom are "hippies"; however, I'm pretty sure it wasn't typical to shave the underarms throughout much of Europe, especially Eastern Europe, and also Africa, etc. in the 70's. Wonder how prevalent it was in Canada?

 

[Roselvr]

I am new to this case, and have read in several posts about photos of the couple. However, any links or threads which indicate photos are blank. Can someone here direct me to any photos related to this case?

Go to their NamUs profiles. I had them added to NamUs. Pamela Reed reached out to their LE who was new to the case. He had boxes he had to go thru; which would have taken forever for their profiles to go online.

I ended up giving Pamela Reed all of the photos I had saved of them, she uploaded them all. Their profiles were built using information I provided.

I was on a mission to have them added because there was a couple that were entered in NamUs to be compared to the mystery couple. It was shocking that their case wasn't one of the 1st cases added to NamUs; especially since their case is one of the cases known around the world

 

[fridaybaker]

Go to their NamUs profiles. I had them added to NamUs. Pamela Reed reached out to their LE who was new to the case. He had boxes he had to go thru; which would have taken forever for their profiles to go online.

I ended up giving Pamela Reed all of the photos I had saved of them, she uploaded them all. Their profiles were built using information I provided.

I was on a mission to have them added because there was a couple that were entered in NamUs to be compared to the mystery couple. It was shocking that their case wasn't one of the 1st cases added to NamUs; especially since their case is one of the cases known around the world

Thank you Roselvr. I'll check the NamUs profiles.

It looks like you've done quite a bit of work on this. Kudos!

 

[T rex]

My gut feeling (Opinion, nothing to prove it) remains they possibly encountered their killer(s) at the fruit stand and were killed as part of a robbery and probable carjacking. If we are to believe that the Sumter County local (who was found in possession of the murder weapon during a traffic stop) was in any way involved in these killings it would be logical that they had something he wanted. Don’t think there was any sexual attack, so unless it was just a thrill killing the murderer(s) probably got something of value as a result.

I do believe they were traveling by car, so something had to happen to it . I've never given much thought to them being hitchhikers but I have considered a motorcycle or possibly even a boat but a while back something occurred to me. Any one of these three ways of traveling would have required excessive amounts of time in the sun but there is no mention of sun tans or tan lines in any of their descriptions. Maybe they were car jacked or perhaps killed for another reason and the killers just felt like the car needed to be disposed of but I'm convinced that's how they were traveling.

 

[Ozoner]

I do believe they were traveling by car, so something had to happen to it . I've never given much thought to them being hitchhikers but I have considered a motorcycle or possibly even a boat but a while back something occurred to me. Any one of these three ways of traveling would have required excessive amounts of time in the sun but there is no mention of sun tans or tan lines in any of their descriptions. Maybe they were car jacked or perhaps killed for another reason and the killers just felt like the car needed to be disposed of but I'm convinced that's how they were traveling.

My number one theory is that they had a pretty nice car and parked it in an out of the way place to sleep for the night. They could have parked on a dirt road or even pulled onto an access lane in a farmer's field or orchard. People used to do that sort of thing fairly often. (I know I did.) I think that some hillbilly car thieves (possibly including Lonnie Henry) came across Jock and Jane and saw an opportunity.

 

[fridaybaker]

My number one theory is that they had a pretty nice car and parked it in an out of the way place to sleep for the night. They could have parked on a dirt road or even pulled onto an access lane in a farmer's field or orchard. People used to do that sort of thing fairly often. (I know I did.) I think that some hillbilly car thieves (possibly including Lonnie Henry) came across Jock and Jane and saw an opportunity.

That would go a way toward explaining the lack of theft of the jewelry/watch. Those things weren't the objective, the vehicle was. A car jacker might, indeed, take those things if he had time, but not being the focus of the robbery, might have easily left them, especially if pressed for time.

 

[Sweetluv]

What is the opinion of the gunshot wounds? Three each seems overkill.
Almost execution