Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[human]

Stats Can link is posted in the first couple of pages of this thread.

Very very interesting.

 

[human]

I have not mentioned manner of death, I have cited police sources who have stated that they are probing the deaths as a murder-suicide. This is not my opinion. I understand that some are unwilling to accept published information attributed to police sources even though that is a common source of information regarding police investigations internationally.

What surprises me is that information published about the location of the deaths, the wealth of the deceased, the health of the deceased prior to death, vacation plans of the deceased and so many other facts published in MSM are accepted as fact, yet information from police sources is rejected. I'm curious how one knows anything about these deaths when all of the information comes from the same place and police source information is deemed invalid.

I am curious why the term “possibility” is ignored?

 

[dotr]

Either this was not already posted, or i forgot about it- certainly would be interesting if there was in fact not just 1 or 2 but possibly more crime scenes in the house, and/or that tips might have lead to the car taken for examination.
Speculation, imo.rbbm.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/police-seen-searching-sewer-roof-of-sherman-mansion-1.3734344

December 23, 2017 More than a week after billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their Toronto mansion, police are still searching the sprawling property.

“Because they’ve been here for this long, what it suggests to me is that the couple were found by the swimming pool, well, I don’t think that’s the only crime scene,” CP24 crime specialist Steve Ryan said on Wednesday. “So they’re processing other scenes in other rooms in this big house, and this is why it’s taking as long as it is.”

In addition to combing through the 12,000 square foot home, police also canvassed neighbours this week for information and surveillance footage. On Thursday, the same day that a large memorial service was held for the couple, police were also seen towing a champagne-coloured Lexus SUV from the property. Neighbours told CTV Toronto that it was the vehicle that Honey would drive.

“It suggests one of two things,” Ryan told CTV Toronto on Thursday. “That they had new information that just came to light and they’ve seized the vehicle. Or, they’re just doing their due diligence and not knowing what they’re looking for, but they’re seizing the vehicle anyway and just making sure that there’s nothing there that they missed.”

Ryan, who spent nearly thirty years with the Toronto police, including more than a dozen with the force’s Homicide Unit, said he’s never seen an investigation like this take so long.

“I just think they’re being very, very careful,” Ryan added on Thursday. “They want to make sure they haven’t missed anything.”

 

[MistyWaters]

Okay. Strangulation is defined as manual or ligature neck compression. The cause of death is ligature neck compression, so we know they were strangled with a ligature. We have also heard that belts are the ligatures used to cause the strangulation, but that is known only by those who trust what is published in MSM.

Definition

"Strangulation: neck compression due to something other than the victim's body weight, such as manual compression or ligature tightened by assailant; usually homicidal"

Forensic Pathology: Asphyxia
http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/topic/forensicsasphyxia.html

Upper BBM

Just to mention I've noticed nowhere that we've heard a Medical Examiner confirm the belts were the actual ligature that caused the neck compression. We only know that "a source" told the media the two were found with belts wrapped around their neck, tied to a pool railing.

If you doubt that both had jackets (or coats) rolled down over their arms, consider that the information appears to have came from the same "source".

"......Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms...."
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

 

[MFH]

Dare i distract with a previously much maligned Frank magazine link?
An update of sorts to the first article, this one from January 2018.
Fwiw.
http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/

Is there a reason for the spelling of Barry’s name in this article being different than we’ve seen so far? Is the correct spelling actually “Barrie”? Or did they just not do what - IMO - seems like pretty basic/obvious research, before writing it?

I don’t know anything about Frank Mag, so just curious.

 

[human]

They probably have had more than two vehicles.

There were about 15 parking spots on the property and neither of the cars up top looked to have been driven for a few days when they were found.

Her Lexus was covered in snow, his car had a bit less. I think they owned other vehicles and may well have driven down into the garage.

I also think Frank Mag is spot on. Double murder, they didn't even see the murderers and it was over very quickly.

If you are a hit person, you don't want to hang around long, in and out. What if a neighbour saw them come home and came over for some reason?? Nope, get in, get out.

Now, why do I give them cred? Because the people who write for Frank are often from MSM and have details that cannot yet hit the MSM, so they write for Frank. Thats also why they do not use bylines.

Thanks dotr.

Interesting idea re cars. Why do you think they were towed? Why do you think they parked those in the driveway but had other ones in the garage?

There is something re the garage because the Sherman’s were removed via the front door rather than what would make more sense, the garage

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting idea re cars. Why do you think they were towed? Why do you think they parked those in the driveway but had other ones in the garage?

There is something re the garage because the Sherman’s were removed via the front door rather than what would make more sense, the garage

There was also that report from a friend that Honey had purchased a Mercedes for Barry, but it didn't say how long ago that was or whether he'd discontinued driving his old car.

 

[Veeduck]

I also think Frank Mag is spot on. ...

Now, why do I give them cred? Because the people who write for Frank are often from MSM and have details that cannot yet hit the MSM, so they write for Frank. Thats also why they do not use bylines.

Thanks dotr.

Yes, thanks very much, dotr, for pointing out that the intriguing "Frank Forensics" article has been substantially revised. Now I really wish I had printed out the original, because the parts that were stricken or rewritten could be significant.

And thank you, JDG, for explaining why one might give a normally satirical source some credence here. While I don't accept all of Frank's conclusions, there's certainly nothing humorous in the forensics article. Didn't someone here also say that in many stories of a contentious nature, Frank has used satire to avoid possible law suits?

 

[MistyWaters]

Is there a reason for the spelling of Barry’s name in this article being different than we’ve seen so far? Is the correct spelling actually “Barrie”? Or did they just not do what - IMO - seems like pretty basic/obvious research, before writing it?

I don’t know anything about Frank Mag, so just curious.

His legal name was Bernard Charles Sherman. "Barry" was a nickname. I don't know for sure although in many cases of nicknames it's typically a verbal reference as opposed the legal name being written. There does happen to be a city in Ontario named Barrie as well, pronounced the same.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Sherman

The origin of the spelling "Barrie" is Irish and was taken from the Irish word for "spear", just mentioning that as an aside because of course we know he was Jewish.

 

[MistyWaters]

There was also that report from a friend that Honey had purchased a Mercedes for Barry, but it didn't say how long ago that was or whether he'd discontinued driving his old car.

This reminds me.....In one of the videos after LE had arrived what stood out was I noticed what appeared to be a pile of unshovelled snow directly in front of the front entrance of the home. And if I recall correctly neither of the photos of the two different vehicles were covered with snow. I also looked up Toronto weather reports and there was light snow off and on in the preceding days.

My recollect certainly might be wrong but I'm wondering has anyone else has thought about snow (or lack thereof) in relation to the outdoors and what it might mean? If this has already been discussed and I missed it, kindly let me know and I'll search for it.

 

[AddyFinch]

This man was just so darn brillant !!! Such a sad da*n shame.
https://www.wealthx.com/dossier/bernard-charles-sherman/

 

[dotr]

His legal name was Bernard Charles Sherman. "Barry" was a nickname. I don't know for sure although in many cases of nicknames it's typically a verbal reference as opposed the legal name being written. There does happen to be a city in Ontario named Barrie as well, pronounced the same.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Sherman

The origin of the spelling "Barrie" is Irish and was taken from the Irish word for "spear", just mentioning that as an aside because of course we know he was Jewish.

Rbbm.
BS could of course, be both Jewish and Irish!
http://www.jewishireland.org/irish-jewish-history/history/

 

[Veeduck]

Yes, thanks very much, dotr, for pointing out that the intriguing "Frank Forensics" article has been substantially revised...

WOW!!! I mistakenly thought the link dotr gave to “Frank Forensics” was simply a revision. Now I see its an entirely new article. The parts about meeting with the architect that evening, and of dying with their boots and winter coats on, has been reiterated. What's new is the assertion that Barry and Honey each drove their cars into the garage.

Frank once again discounts the murder-suicide theory and points to the possibility of 2 or more killers. But this time, much more is said about why the murder-suicide theory is - in Frank's opinion - no longer tenable.

IMO, this “Part Deux” article should be taken VERY seriously. And even more info may possibly be gleaned by a comparison with their first article about the Sherman murders.

“Frank Forensics: Who Killed Barry and Honey Sherman?”
http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happened-to-the-shermans/

“Frank Forensics: The Sherman Murders, Part Deux”
http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/

I still don’t agree with their speculation about revenge motives (other than the Winters); particularly the ludicrous notion that Big Pharma might employ professional hit men. But the only humorous aspect of this new article is their phrase ‘cone of silence;’ a reference to the hilarious old “Get Smart” TV series.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm confused about the motivations for Frankmag's "Frank Forensics" pursuit of this case. I haven't been able to find that they've ever investigated other crimes previously, or am I wrong?

 

[JDG]

Interesting idea re cars. Why do you think they were towed? Why do you think they parked those in the driveway but had other ones in the garage?

There is something re the garage because the Sherman’s were removed via the front door rather than what would make more sense, the garage

Well, when you put your house up for sale/showings, you have to try to keep it immaculate. Im sure they had a professional cleaning before any showings. Then, the weather changes, it had been snowing. Many wealthy people have more than one car per person. Why get into the snowy, cold car for a meeting if there is an alternative in the garage?? or, if you want to impress (and have power) over the architect you've hired? IMO

When you come back from the meeting, you're going to put the flashier/newer vehicles back into the garage....where maybe someone is waiting for you. IMO

I suspect the Lexus SUV was her 'daily ride' and they both had newer/flashier cars in the garage. IMO

Heck, think of all the people who have sports cars, convertibles or classic cars for the summer and drive an older, 'lesser' car in the winter??
And, they come from all walks of life but can afford a few vehicles. You don't have to be wealthy to have cars as a hobby. IMO

Honey was all about presentation, looking good and impressing people. A lot of people in Toronto drive fancy SUVs, they are 'everyday' cars.
And as someone said, didn't she recently buy a fancier car for Barry?? Those would be in the garage, everyday cars out front. IMO

Maybe the Lexus was towed because it appeared to be blocking the driveway.....who knows?? IMO

IF Frank is correct about the crime, the bodies may have had to come out the front door IF the garage was a second crime scene.
Maybe DNA or something from one of the Shermans was found in the garage, something that wouldn't normally be there but could be dropped as they were dragged into the pool area. Maybe I watch too much tv but people sometimes try to 'leave a trail' while being abducted or if lost.
IMO

I remember years ago, my father taught me to mark trees on my way into a wooded area, so that I could retrace my steps and get out.

I don't think this is the case though, as I think the Shermans were incapacitated very quickly and placed. IMO

Just a thought. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

When that latest video was posted a few days back I think I saw a light on in the garage behind the reporter.

 

[JDG]

I'm confused about the motivations for Frankmag's "Frank Forensics" pursuit of this case. I haven't been able to find that they've ever investigated other crimes previously, or am I wrong?

We've read it for years and off hand I cannot name a murder like this....can you? ....or if they've covered it or not but everything is fair game for Frank. Due to the worldwide interest, the wealth of the Shermans and the vast number of suspects, I see why they would cover it.

As I've posted before, most of their articles come from MSM people who cannot print 'sources' at their day jobs, so they write for Frank where there is no byline.

Im trying to remember if they covered Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka....if anyone knows how to find out??? That was a huge, brutal, disgusting multiple murder and it may have hit Frank.

They certainly have covered 'crimes' that were not murders. All the time. The bigger/more powerful the person, the better.

They do it to sell papers, like MSM and tabloid news.

 

[dotr]

I'm confused about the motivations for Frankmag's "Frank Forensics" pursuit of this case. I haven't been able to find that they've ever investigated other crimes previously, or am I wrong?

They have on occasion written about other murder cases, one case in particular regarding information about a murdered female LE, they were taken to court for that article and won the case.
The reasons given for writing that article, below.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada/2016/11/04/writer-charged-with-breaching-publication-ban-in-homicide-case-due-in-court.html
Nov. 2016

[h=1]Nova Scotia judge drops publication ban charge against Frank Magazine writer[/h]

rbbm.

Christopher Calvin Garnier is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Campbell, who served as a Truro police constable for six years before her death.

Her death drew national headlines, and police officers and firefighters lined the streets as her casket was brought to the church for her funeral in her hometown of Stellarton, N.S.

Outside of court, Douglas said he considers Campbell's death a tragedy, but nonetheless feels he was justified in providing the public with information about her that other media chose not to publish.


"I think prior to Frank Magazine the public as a whole was missing quite a large piece of the puzzle ... I think this piece of context you're going to keep seeing throughout this prosecution," he said.

 

[Tortoise]

We've read it for years and off hand I cannot name a murder like this....can you? ....or if they've covered it or not but everything is fair game for Frank. Due to the worldwide interest, the wealth of the Shermans and the vast number of suspects, I see why they would cover it.

As I've posted before, most of their articles come from MSM people who cannot print 'sources' at their day jobs, so they write for Frank where there is no byline.

Im trying to remember if they covered Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka....if anyone knows how to find out??? That was a huge, brutal, disgusting multiple murder and it may have hit Frank.

They certainly have covered 'crimes' that were not murders. All the time. The bigger/more powerful the person, the better.

They do it to sell papers, like MSM and tabloid news.

Ah ok, I did a search for Frank Forensics and it only brought up the Shermans.

And it's not so much the reporting of it, but the investigatory slant that caught my eye.

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting, thanks dotr. I'm going to satisfy my curiosity and look into that one you've linked.