Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #6 *Arrest*

[Brownie01]

While not in the OC, I live in a similar upper middle class area and neither of my teens nor their friends carry a knife, to my knowledge. Why not? Well, they'd be in a lot of trouble if they took a knife to school. My son owns a Swiss Army knife from his earlier Boy Scouts years, but it lives on his desk and is basically only used to cut tags off new clothes. The only family member who regularly carries a knife is my 72 year old Dad, who really only ever pulls it out when we need to cut the ribbon off a wrapped gift at family gatherings.

Maybe SW was a regular knife carrier post-high school but you can bet that BB wasn't.

 

[LaneGirl]

I’ll probably shoot myself later for stepping into this, but, this just seems like such an obvious failure to communicate. I’ve got an idea of why, but, still, I can’t help myself and feel the need to try to clear it up for everyone.

1st: No One has said ANYONE ‘deserves to die’, because we ALL understand that NO ONE “deserves” to die, and their having been killed was a Tragedy!...a heinous crime...a terrible accident...whatever, depending on the “case” and ‘circumstances’, and not just in THIS case, but others...as Everyone deserves to live a happy and long life.

2nd: No one is victim blaming. It seems like that is how you are interpreting what they said. (Just give me a second and I’ll explain it below)

3rd: What they were saying is that Killers/Murders are NOT necessarily “logical”, and it isn’t uncommon in various circumstances, that are unique to THAT individual, for them to possibly have FLIPPED THE F-** OUT! No logic, No Thought, Just “Do”, then Afterwards, realize..’Holy Cow, WTH just happened & What the H*ll do I do NOW?!’ kind of a circumstance....some people just have “irrational fears”, that are just THAT...NOT logical, NOT rational..they make NO SENSE, and can even be something totally silly and harmless, and some people may not even know they have that level fear until something happens..and until something triggers their fear..

Perfect example of an “IRRATIONAL FEAR”: I have an irrational fear of fish/critters touching me when I’m in water..so,if I stand in water where I can’t see my feet clearly, especially if it is waist high, and something touches me, I flip out!...Usually, that involves screaming like an idiot and running to shore..*shrugs*...
Further example: At the beach w/my sister & family, ocean fishing (my 1st time), they finally after a few hours coaxed me out to waist high water (pretty far from shore, but my sis was there & her BF, so I tried hard to not be too scared and just go with the flow..peer pressure, yes)...we’re having a good time, chatting, fishing, I’m still a little nervous/slightly spooked but controlling it)..we’re laughing about dolphins in the distance...totally distracted and not feeling any fear...then something touched/brushed my leg/thigh underwater...Next thing I knew I had climbed my Sister like a telephone pole to get as much of “Me” out of the water as physically possible..My Sis was none too pleased and screaming for me to get off her, I felt like a Dumba** & knew I looked ridiculous, but my fear level had ratcheted up to 1200 watts and I just could ‘t bring myself to let her go even in the littlest bit..Her BF almost burst himself laughing, and my Sis eventually saw the humor...AFTER a friend came all the way from shore, and was kind enough to carry me back to shore in his arms (Out of the Water!), and then he too almost pee’d laughing.POINT IS?⬇️

Was it funny, yeah, later, but at the time, NO! All I know is that one second I’m standing next to my Sis fishing and laughing about dolphins, and the next, my pole was gone, anything else I had was gone, and I was as close as I could be, to standing on top of my Sister’s Shoulder’s/Back with as much of me out of the water as physically possible
..did I make the decision to climb up onto my Sister? NO!, the thought never crossed my mind, I don’t know even how/when it happened, I was “just there”..THAT is what everyone who has tried, has attempted to explain, that sometimes, even regular people (Swear I’ve never killed anyone), can “REACT” to a situation without thinking...period. And, being that scared of a fish or whatever even touching me is obviously stupid, and makes no sense, not like I’ve ever gotten bitten or that much out there even has the ability/teeth to bite, but, for whatever reason, my brain switches ‘off’ and ‘fight/flight’ instinct switches on, and I don’t get to decide, I just see the aftermath..THAT is an IRRATIONAL FEAR!...btw, this is a true story, my sister still endlessly & mercilessly teases me about it to this day..it happened a good 7-10yrs ago.


Hopefully, the whole “react” and not think, just “Do”, because XYZ happened....(whatever XYZ happens to be for that one person), makes more sense to you now��[emoji846] and before someone says otherwise, I am NOT taking anyone’s “side” I was just explaining a concept for clarity sake
...If not, then I too give up, but it was worth a shot to try and explain so everyone is on the same page.

Ok I'm not sure what you are saying or trying to convey....

I too have swatted at something and someone during times of fear, however I have never picked up a knife and stabbed someone not even once let alone 20 times.

Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying it's fear based to stab a person 20 times out of fear?

 

[Nancy2441]

I have yet to hear of one friend or neighbor of SW coming forward to tell anything good about SW. Did he not have ANY friends? Very telling. JMO

 

[curiosityscat]

(SNIP-SNIP)
Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying it's fear based to stab a person 20 times out of fear?

Well, the “panic” defense is irrelevant as it is not allowed in CA.

And Thankfully you aren’t inclined to hurt anyone..

To be VERY CLEAR, I’m not saying that is or is not what happened..I’m only explaining irrational fear and reaction...

And Yes!, I am saying it is ‘possible’, is it right? No..is it justified, No..but, Panic is Panic, it isn’t logical or controllable, and you aren’t thinking when it happens...

Need another example? The reason that 1st line defenders firefighters, police officers, etc. are constantly training how exactly to handle dangerous situations is so that they do NOT panic, but instead, they think clearly, and because they have repeated that specific action in that order so many times, it is called “muscle memory”, they don’t think, they ‘react’, BUT, they ‘react’ how they were trained to react..properly.

There are also other cases in emergency situations, and national disasters, where people PANIC, and they do not ‘think rationally’, and instead of running away from the danger, in their attempt to ‘get away’, they end up running towards the danger!..it’s one of the reasons that schools hold fire-drills, so students know where to go and what to do..because if they just PANIC they could easily, run into the danger area and fire..again, not logical, no “thought” or intention behind it.

 

[LaneGirl]

Well, the “panic” defense is irrelevant as it is not allowed in CA.

And Yes!, I am saying it is ‘possible’, is it right? No..is it justified, No..but, Panic is Panic, it isn’t logical or controllable, and you aren’t thinking when it happens...

Need another example? The reason that 1st line defenders firefighters, police officers, etc. are constantly training how exactly to handle dangerous situations is so that they do NOT panic, but instead, they think clearly, and because they have repeated that specific action in that order so many times, it is called “muscle memory”, they don’t think, they ‘react’, BUT, they ‘react’ how they were trained to react..properly.

There are also other cases in emergency situations, and national disasters, where people PANIC, and they do not ‘think rationally’, and instead of running away from the danger, in their attempt to ‘get away’, they end up running towards the danger!..it’s one of the reasons that schools hold fire-drills, so students know where to go and what to do..because if they just PANIC they could easily, run into the danger area and fire..again, not logical, no “thought” or intention behind it.

Panic from a kiss according to SW himself? Come on really? You really want to compare grave danger to a kiss?

If you want to compare that is your right. I believe you believe it and I'll give you that.

I personally can't see how someone who is taller and out weighs someone by almost 50lbs (I think it was stated) is so scared by a kiss that they have to pick up a knife and stab someone 20 times. But you know thats me.

 

[kemo]

Are we thinking this is going to go to trial? I feel like Mendoza (SW attorney) will get him a lesser sentence - CA won’t kill him but death row is way worse than regular prison. So his attorney will explain his options - you either go to maximum security and get one hour of daylight per day while being locked up with a bunch brothers and cholos (gang members). Or you plead, get to go to a minimum security and make friends with white supremacists and find a boyfriend.
IMO.

I have an idea this is the path defense will go down. There is a lot we don’t know yet but it looks to me that some sort of “ gay panic” defense is the only real chance SW has and it is banned in California. Orange County isn’t as conservative as it used to be and a conviction with a Hate Crime enhancement would mean a very long time in very unpleasant circumstances.

What I can’t see is any other explanation for why the two of them go together at that time and place unless some sexual encounter was negotiated.


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[DAnthrplgst]

Panic from a kiss according to SW himself? Come on really? You really want to compare grave danger to a kiss?

If you want to compare that is your right. I believe you believe it and I'll give you that.

I personally can't see how someone who is taller and out weighs someone by almost 50lbs (I think it was stated) is so scared by a kiss that they have to pick up a knife and stab someone 20 times. But you know thats me.

Reverse the genders. A woman is sitting in a car with a man, under the impression they are just hanging out, catching up, no romantic or sexual intentions are in her mind when suddenly this man kisses her, maybe puts his hand where it shouldn't be, the woman instinctually reacts and punches him or bites him. He misread her intentions and thought he was just giving an innocent kiss.

To up the emotions a notch: lets say our young lady was a victim of sexual assault in the past, perhaps she was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and for this reason she carries a knife, pepper spray, whatever, and this man kisses her without her consent, gropes her and in a PTSD flashback she is transported back to the time of her rape or she remembers her abuser doing this and she reacts out of fear, grabs her knife and stabs the man.

Are either reactions logical? No. Our man in either scenario was clueless, he has no intention of harming her but she reacted out of fear, surprise, whatever.

Was SW the victim of childhood sexual abuse? I dunno but based on the two organizations we know he was a part of it's a distinct possibility, since both the Boy Scouts and the church have a record of shielding molesters.

Some of us seem to be operating under a black and white notion of what transpired here and we can't do that. This is a very complicated case and it is not black and white.

 

[JaneEyre]

Ok I'm not sure what you are saying or trying to convey....

I too have swatted at something and someone during times of fear, however I have never picked up a knife and stabbed someone not even once let alone 20 times.

Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying it's fear based to stab a person 20 times out of fear?

I can't help but laugh at this point. I mean, the more we try to understand each other on this point, the more confusion it causes.

Personally, I don't know what the hell anyone means on this particular topic anymore.

Kudos to those still valiantly attempting to figure it out.

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[DAnthrplgst]

I have an idea this is the path defense will go down. There is a lot we don’t know yet but it looks to me that some sort of “ gay panic” defense is the only real chance SW has and it is banned in California. Orange County isn’t as conservative as it used to be and a conviction with a Hate Crime enhancement would mean a very long time in very unpleasant circumstances.

What I can’t see is any other explanation for why the two of them go together at that time and place unless some sexual encounter was negotiated.


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I seriously doubt there is going to be any hate crime enhancement. I don't think this was a hate crime for one and second, from my understanding, it's exceedingly difficult to prove something is a hate crime without pretty clear, unimpeachable evidence. I suspect that's why prosecutors don't seem to go after it as much anymore except in the most obvious cases but even in those they don't seem to seek that enhancement much anymore.

ETA: Just found this interesting article about hate crime prosecutions with this relevant quote: "In California, there were 837 hate crime incidents in 2015, up 10 percent from the previous year, according to a report from the California Department of Justice. California prosecuted 189 hate crime cases in 2015 (these crimes were not necessarily committed that year). When California issued its 2015 hate crime report, the state confirmed that of those 138 cases with final court rulings, less than half — 59 cases — resulted in hate crime convictions."

It's from this article by PBS News Hour: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/hate-crimes-difficult-convict

 

[JaneEyre]

Reverse the genders. A woman is sitting in a car with a man, under the impression they are just hanging out, catching up, no romantic or sexual intentions are in her mind when suddenly this man kisses her, maybe puts his hand where it shouldn't be, the woman instinctually reacts and punches him or bites him. He misread her intentions and thought he was just giving an innocent kiss.

To up the emotions a notch: lets say our young lady was a victim of sexual assault in the past, perhaps she was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and for this reason she carries a knife, pepper spray, whatever, and this man kisses her without her consent, gropes her and in a PTSD flashback she is transported back to the time of her rape or she remembers her abuser doing this and she reacts out of fear, grabs her knife and stabs the man.

Are either reactions logical? No. Our man in either scenario was clueless, he has no intention of harming her but she reacted out of fear, surprise, whatever.

Was SW the victim of childhood sexual abuse? I dunno but based on the two organizations we know he was a part of it's a distinct possibility, since both the Boy Scouts and the church have a record of shielding molesters.

Some of us seem to be operating under a black and white notion of what transpired here and we can't do that. This is a very complicated case and it is not black and white.

Unless SW was a victim of rape, that last bit with PTSD and stabbing just doesn't work out.

BTW - how many women do we hear about who have been raped who then go on to get all stabby and kill men who want to kiss them in the future?

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[LaneGirl]

Reverse the genders. A woman is sitting in a car with a man, under the impression they are just hanging out, catching up, no romantic or sexual intentions are in her mind when suddenly this man kisses her, maybe puts his hand where it shouldn't be, the woman instinctually reacts and punches him or bites him. He misread her intentions and thought he was just giving an innocent kiss.

To up the emotions a notch: lets say our young lady was a victim of sexual assault in the past, perhaps she was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and for this reason she carries a knife, pepper spray, whatever, and this man kisses her without her consent, gropes her and in a PTSD flashback she is transported back to the time of her rape or she remembers her abuser doing this and she reacts out of fear, grabs her knife and stabs the man.

Are either reactions logical? No. Our man in either scenario was clueless, he has no intention of harming her but she reacted out of fear, surprise, whatever.

Was SW the victim of childhood sexual abuse? I dunno but based on the two organizations we know he was a part of it's a distinct possibility, since both the Boy Scouts and the church have a record of shielding molesters.

Some of us seem to be operating under a black and white notion of what transpired here and we can't do that. This is a very complicated case and it is not black and white.

I think the #metoo movement is a testament to look at in your seniaro. Many women have come forward with accusations of sexual harassment and so far none of them have picked up a knife and stabbed someone 20 times from a kiss or even worse.

Have there been women in a physically abusive relationship with a partner that panicked and stabbed/shot or killed their abusive partner yes. In my opinion these are different situations.

But I will agree with you that this is a complicated case as we have very little facts and nothing is ever black and white, there are always gray areas.

 

[DAnthrplgst]

I think the #metoo movement is a testament to look at in your seniaro. Many women have come forward with accusations of sexual harassment and so far none of them have picked up a knife and stabbed someone 20 times from a kiss or even worse.

Have there been women in a physically abusive relationship with a partner that panicked and stabbed/shot or killed their abusive partner yes. In my opinion these are different situations.

But I will agree with you that this is a complicated case as we have very little facts and nothing is ever black and white, there are always gray areas.

I understanding the point of your entire comment but the bolded portion, I just want to make clear, I'm not referring to sexual harassment in the SW/BB case, I'm referring to sexual assault in my respective scenarios.

There is another dimension to this that I think may be getting lost (not directing this to you LaneGirl but in general) and that is we are talking about a male. A gay man kissing a straight man, especially if the straight man is insecure in their sexual identity, has a lot more implications for our straight man then it does for the woman in my previous scenarios. A gay man kissing a straight man what doesn't wish to have that sort of interaction can be viewed as an attack on his masculinity. It wasn't that long ago where a gay man kissing a straight man would have gotten that gay man a beating or even worse.

I think a major problem here is that we simply don't know enough about SW, his upbringing, beliefs and most importantly, what type of family culture he comes from. I do know he is from Tennessee but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything. If he was from a mountain family I could certainly understand his violent reaction, good ol boys tend to react violent to unwanted sexual advances from other men but with his mother being a family therapist I have my doubt that he was a good ol boy in the classic sense of the term.

 

[Busylady]

I am not saying this is what happened at all so please please no don't accuse me of victim blaming. What if SW and BB meet up before hand BB has assured him that he won't say anything, after the act is over BB makes a comment about just come out people already know anyway. SW freaks out because he has a tremendous fear of being outed, how will his parents, friends etc react. It may not be a rational fear to us, but to him it could be very rational and he felt like if people knew his life would be over and he reacts in that moment. If this were the scenario it doesn't justify or make it ok to murder BB in anyway but I can see fear taking over in this situation.

 

[LaneGirl]

I understanding the point of your entire comment but the bolded portion, I just want to make clear, I'm not referring to sexual harassment in the SW/BB case, I'm referring to sexual assault in my respective scenarios.

There is another dimension to this that I think may be getting lost (not directing this to you LaneGirl but in general) and that is we are talking about a male. A gay man kissing a straight man, especially if the straight man is insecure in their sexual identity, has a lot more implications for our straight man then it does for the woman in my previous scenarios. A gay man kissing a straight man what doesn't wish to have that sort of interaction can be viewed as an attack on his masculinity. It wasn't that long ago where a gay man kissing a straight man would have gotten that gay man a beating or even worse.

I think a major problem here is that we simply don't know enough about SW, his upbringing, beliefs and most importantly, what type of family culture he comes from. I do know he is from Tennessee but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything. If he was from a mountain family I could certainly understand his violent reaction, good ol boys tend to react violent to unwanted sexual advances from other men but with his mother being a family therapist I have my doubt that he was a good ol boy in the classic sense of the term.

Agree. I think we know he comes from a practicing catholic family, has maybe "hit on" BB according to the affidavit, made videos for a group that is against homosexuality per internet archives, has possibly sent sexts or pics to another guy (not BB) per internet sm.

So possibly not a straight man, but lets say he was in every since of the word straight and not even questioning his sexuality...beating up a guy that makes a pass yes I can see that, stabbing 20 times, no that says passion/hate or something way more than just hey dude get off me.

There is something more to this story I think. I keep going back to the fact that BB sent that text in June to friends saying SW made a pass at him and didn't want anyone to know, then by SW own account he went to pick up BB (who left his glasses and wallet in the house). Why would he go? BB was an openly gay guy they had some sort of relationship according to the affidavit and texts. If you don't want to be associated with him why pick him up take him somewhere?

Edit: #metoo movement includes sexual assault/rape I just used the term harassment

I don't pretend to have all the answers but something just isn't sitting well with this just being a case of "dude kissed me and I didn't like it" case.

 

[LaneGirl]

I am not saying this is what happened at all so please please no don't accuse me of victim blaming. What if SW and BB meet up before hand BB has assured him that he won't say anything, after the act is over BB makes a comment about just come out people already know anyway. SW freaks out because he has a tremendous fear of being outed, how will his parents, friends etc react. It may not be a rational fear to us, but to him it could be very rational and he felt like if people knew his life would be over and he reacts in that moment. If this were the scenario it doesn't justify or make it ok to murder BB in anyway but I can see fear taking over in this situation.

This is somewhat close to what I believe. BB had sent a text according to an affidavit in June saying SW "hit on" him and asked him not to tell anyone and supposedly BB told people. SW social media shows he was active in some group that is against homosexuality as well as having religious parents so it's not out of the relm of possibility he didn't want to be "outed" and maybe he was conflicted about his own sexuality.

Where I differ is that I can't reconcile an unwanted "kiss" with stabbing someone 20 times.

I can see someone backed into a corner because they don't have the support to come out and/or possibly fighting their own feelings because of lack of support/acceptance of being gay.

It's not victim blaming, it's not a "kiss" that set him off, it's his lack of support/acceptance and perhaps feelings of society norms that homosexuality is wrong/bad/sin that sent him in a rage? idk

 

[DAnthrplgst]

Agree. I think we know he comes from a practicing catholic family, has maybe "hit on" BB according to the affidavit, made videos for a group that is against homosexuality per internet archives, has possibly sent sexts or pics to another guy (not BB) per internet sm.

So possibly not a straight man, but lets say he was in every since of the word straight and not even questioning his sexuality...beating up a guy that makes a pass yes I can see that, stabbing 20 times, no that says passion/hate or something way more than just hey dude get off me.

There is something more to this story I think. I keep going back to the fact that BB sent that text in June to friends saying SW made a pass at him and didn't want anyone to know, then by SW own account he went to pick up BB (who left his glasses and wallet in the house). Why would he go? BB was an openly gay guy they had some sort of relationship according to the affidavit and texts. If you don't want to be associated with him why pick him up take him somewhere?

I don't pretend to have all the answers but something just isn't sitting well with this just being a case of "dude kissed me and I didn't like it" case.

Totally agree. There is A LOT more to this and I think you're right about the stabbing being about anger/passion. IIRC, I seem to recall reading more then once that stabbing is more a crime of passion since it requires being up close and personal.

 

[Busylady]

This is somewhat close to what I believe. BB had sent a text according to an affidavit in June saying SW "hit on" him and asked him not to tell anyone and supposedly BB told people. SW social media shows he was active in some group that is against homosexuality as well as having religious parents so it's not out of the relm of possibility he didn't want to be "outed" and maybe he was conflicted about his own sexuality.

Where I differ is that I can't reconcile an unwanted "kiss" with stabbing someone 20 times.

I can see someone backed into a corner because they don't have the support to come out and/or possibly fighting their own feelings because of lack of support/acceptance of being gay.

It's not victim blaming, it's not a "kiss" that set him off, it's his lack of support/acceptance and perhaps feelings of society norms that homosexuality is wrong/bad/sin that sent him in a rage? idk

Oh I agree it was much more than an unwanted kiss. I am wondering if the unwanted kiss comment was SW way of trying to keep the image up that he was not homosexual to his family and the public. I think he is a very emotionally tormented young man. JMO

 

[Seajay]

If indeed it turns out that SW is gay, it's going to be hard to prove it a hate crime. Revenge for being outed, yes, but hate crime if they were both gay, I don't see it. JMO

It would be in SW's favor to go with being gay if a hate crime is tacked in to his charges, IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

We've had to remove 30+ OT or bickering posts just in the last couple of hours.

If you want to discuss the JA case, do it in the JA threads, not here.

If you want to bicker and argue, do it somewhere else, not here.

Thanks.

 

[Tricia]

Ok, I am going to shut down Blaze's thread for the night.

Everyone take a break and come back tomorrow with your hearts full of love for your fellow poster and
with a better understanding of our rules.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Thank you,
Tricia