CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #6

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I have a number of alcoholics in my family. At the end, eating was not exactly a consideration. Not even clear how well food was being tolerated. And because this was a medical family, and some years back, Valium became a drug of choice in order to make it through the day without appearing to be drinking. It's a really ugly way to die. What really jarred me about your ex was the broken femur. The femur is the strongest bone in the body, surrounded by really strong muscle. A broken one is incredibly painful, owing to the muscles contracting and pushing broken bone ends against tissue (or through skin). And yet, having seen what an alcoholic near death and steeped in denial looks like, I absolutely believe you. Everything in life gets put off until tomorrow, or after the next drink, or until they get sober again (which in the end is never). Cunning and baffling disease, as they say.

It's terrible. I've lost count of the friends I've lost to alcoholism. I'm not talking a few beers here and there or a weekend warrior, I'm talking a 12 pak a day, when we were together, through the week and at the very least a case, a day, on Fri-Sun. I could not believe he broke his femur either. After he got in a safe zone they re-broke it, and went in and made a wire cage around the bone and tried to put in a rod (iirc). It never really took and his body was still not fully recovered, so, infection formed, and all kinds of other stuff went wrong, so his body would try to shut down. It was just pitiful. He nearly died several times but always came back, then that cancer just took off (He was a chain smoker too. At least three packs a day before the bone break.). The malnutrition was at the root of the break, they said his bones had become very brittle and powder like. He broke the other leg, because he forgot they removed the other, broken, leg, and got out of bed to go to the restroom. Malnutrition wreaks havoc on the mind and body. That is why I think that they are putting the adult kids in a care facility. They've suffered from it longer, perhaps, and need a watchul eye and all of the handails, and safety features in place.
 
Respectfully what makes you say that? Videos don't show that. Videos show them enjoying themselves. Evidently said just opposite of your wondering.

Knowing what we know:

This isn't minimizing?

Or this?

Do you link that clothing were "filthy". Possible but stating as fact I want to read. Thanks. Looking at photos example all on couch, the jeans look worn and maybe stained from being hand me downs, but I haven't seen that #2 clothing at CC were filthy. Even in photos one with CARS, middle boy pants are rolled up, in another LT has her pants rolled up. Just things I noticed

Or this?

Something bugging me.
I have read that the journals and education levels were about first grade so forth. So, makes me wonder about the one shower a year comments. Did the one stating this have the concept of time? Lots of questions regarding what been released.
 
Here is a video I found about a person weighing only 75 lbs who ate a lot of cookies. She almost died. It discusses the refeeding syndrome and a lot of the different medications used.

I remember there were a lot of fears in early days for the oldest daughter. So, this maybe give some idea of what may have been happening to her body at that time. I hope she is improving by now.
A Starving Mom Suddenly Ate 40 Cookies. This Is W…: http://youtu.be/vyZWojeVhyA
 
I took it to mean animal feces, not human.

The young girl who was a neighbour and friend of the older children that lived across the road has said when they left there were 2 dogs locked inside that were feeding on nappy faeces and also a dead cat. There was no mention of waist deep filth so I'm not falling for his story either. Then again the media, in particular the daily mail who thrive on click bait tend to embellish every story they print.
 
Mental impairment from the abuse and treatment, undernourishment, etc., or mentally impaired generally (i.e., from other causes)? Or can she say yet?

My understanding is that all the children have mental impairment, and emotional and psychological impairment due
to their maltreatment, abuse, torture and undernourishment.
 
If i was only let out a few times to once a year I’d be happy too.
 
I agree with you. It was really too early for the medical/mental health professionals to diagnose specific learning deficiencies and cognitive problems.

But I would also urge caution when you say, "we KNOW that this kids _____." I don't KNOW anything, other than what the police and the prosecutor have said. I don't think they are lying to me, but I haven't seen pictures from the inside of the house. I haven't seen pictures of the children when they were placed in protective custody. Many of the other things that I have been told have been from the children telling police officers things, and then the police officers telling other police officers things, and finally the head police officer making a statement or the DA making a statement. I don't know the context of those statements. "They would only let us take a shower once per year." OR "they would eat Apple pie in front of us while we were starving." OR "if we washed our hands above our wrists we would get beaten." Do all the kids, when separated, agree with that?

It's not that I disbelieve what I'm being told, as much as I'm withholding judgment until I see the proof and hear from the other side.

I will say that the DA certainly seems to be running in front of the cameras when many other large jurisdictions would have a spokesperson do the talking. Does he have political ambitions? Maybe and maybe not.

So the bottom line is that you don't know if you believe the victims, or LE, or the DA.

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What I don't understand and maybe I missed it, was why do they have 4 vehicles? Didn't some neighbors claim they saw an older child driving? In this picture, it's clear they have 4 vehicles....one is the van (I can understand that with 13 children) and then 3 cars....Mother and father drive one. who's vehicle was the 4th one?

A neighbour has said they have seen the son and daughter driving a car... The Van was for family days out and I'd imagine a car each for DL and LT.
 
So the bottom line is that you don't know if you believe the victims, or LE, or the DA.

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How about adding the examining doctors at Riverside Medical Center and Corona Regional Medical Center.
 
So the bottom line is that you don't know if you believe the victims, or LE, or the DA.

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That's right. It's called "withholding judgment." If you ever served on jury duty, you've been admonished to withhold judgment until you consider all of the admitted evidence and have heard both sides.

When you don't withhold judgment, what you get is a lynch mob mentality, and that's what I see here.
 
I believe that there is evidence for the actual charges that have been brought. And, I fear, there may be more charges forthcoming. These are extremely, extremely bad.

But, yes, I do hope that now and then things weren't as extreme as that. That does not negate the badness of those things. And that does mean I am taking the part of the criminals. I hope this because these normal moments may help the survivors in the long run.

There is no replacing some of the learning that takes place in early childhood. I just hope they each got some of that, somehow.

Now, giving them this was the duty of the parents. So, doing it doesn't make the parents virtuous. In light of the abuse and neglect, it doesn't even make them adequate.
 
Is there a live stream for the restraining order hearing (suppose to start at 4:30 est)?
 
That's right. It's called "withholding judgment." If you ever served on jury duty, you've been admonished to withhold judgment until you consider all of the admitted evidence and have heard both sides.

When you don't withhold judgment, what you get is a lynch mob mentality, and that's what I see here.
I'm using something called critical thinking.

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Respectfully what makes you say that? Videos don't show that. Videos show them enjoying themselves. Evidently said just opposite of your wondering.


I don't see that. I see all those kids responding to what they are told to do by Elvis. There is no spontaneity where they impulsively jump up to do a few quick dance steps to Jailhouse Rock, no real interaction between them and Elvis that is not called on by him for them to do, no impulsive hugs for each other or mom and dad.

In my family, the kids would have jumped up and danced in the aisles at an occasion like that. Some of the adults too. They might have been quiet during the "vows" part of it, but when the music started their legs would have been jumping in time with the beat of the music. Given the circumstances where they have been starved I can see they may not have felt like running around, but on the other hand, there is no real pleasure in the faces of those kids.

In my view for what was supposed to be a joyful occasion, it had almost a funeral air. If the T's meant to show how happy their kids was, it was a huge flop in my opinion.
 
[
QUOTE=enelram;13888168]
There is zero doubt in my mind that these survivors were horrifically abused for years. None at all. But I do want to address the points made by those who are questioning some of the details.

AFAIK, the comments about the children's mental states came from LE, not from experts in education and childhood psychology/trauma. And they came very quickly after the kids were rescued, and at a point in which immediate medical needs were likely taking priority over cognitive assessment. So it is quite possible to me that LE's impressions of the children's educational and knowledge level were not 100% accurate. If the 17 year old has the educational level of a third grader, for instance, it wouldn't be shocking for someone who doesn't typically work with children to confuse that with first-grade level knowledge.

Similarly, I believe completely that one or more of the children said something to give LE the impression that he or she didn't know what a police officer or medication was. That doesn't necessarily mean that impression was accurate. Maybe the kid didn't recognize the word "cop" or "detective," but actually did have a general sense of what the police did. Maybe a kid who looked confused was asked directly "Do you know what pills are?" and said "no" because she was so scared of giving the wrong answer. In a case like this, it has to be really, really hard to figure out what the kids know and don't know given the layers of trauma they must be dealing with. An untrained officer isn't going to be able to make that kind of assessment.As others have said, it also might well be that some children, based on age or some other characteristic, wound up more thoroughly isolated than the others. But I'm sure all of them are developmentally well behind where they should be.

I will find the article I read today from the MD at the hospital where the adult children are. Her title included Chief of
Trauma and Abuse. She was very clear, all 7 are " mentally Impaired."


Was 2 days after, and adults were in different hospitals . Jmho I didn't see that from link about mentally impaired?
Tuesday, January 16, 2018
PERRIS, California -- The mother of 13 malnourished adult and juvenile children, some of whom were chained to furniture in a filthy Perris home, was confused by the arrival of Riverside County sheriff's deputies after a 17-year-old escaped and called 911, officials said Tuesday.

"The mother was perplexed as to why we were at that residence," said Greg Fellows, Riverside County Sheriff's Department Perris Station commander.

....
The adult children are listed in stable condition and are being fed in a safe, secure environment, said Corona Regional Medical Center CEO Mark Uffer. "They're very friendly, they're very cooperative," Uffer said.

...
Meanwhile, the minor children were being treated at another medical facility.

The Medical Director of the Child Abuse and Neglect Unit at Riverside University Health System, Dr. Sophia Grant, said the children will require stabilization and slow feeding due to their extreme malnourishment.

"The long-term needs of these kids are going to be psychological and emotional," said Grant. Grant said the children would likely experience post-traumatic stress from their experiences. The recovery of the children will be "ongoing and long-term," she said.
 
Respectfully what makes you say that? Videos don't show that. Videos show them enjoying themselves. Evidently said just opposite of your wondering.

That's right. It's called "withholding judgment." If you ever served on jury duty, you've been admonished to withhold judgment until you consider all of the admitted evidence and have heard both sides.

When you don't withhold judgment, what you get is a lynch mob mentality, and that's what I see here.

Or minimization of victims abuse, pain, and narratives. Reducing those narratives to a DA's "political motivations" Minimization, blame shifting, and denial.

Absolutely not victim centered.
 
That's right. It's called "withholding judgment." If you ever served on jury duty, you've been admonished to withhold judgment until you consider all of the admitted evidence and have heard both sides.

When you don't withhold judgment, what you get is a lynch mob mentality, and that's what I see here.
By the way, there is very little lynch mob mentality going on here. If you really look at the posts, 90% of them are discussing the well-being of these kids, the conditions they came from, their current condition, and concern for their future.

Far from being a lynch mob, most of us have posted with great concern and heaps of compassion for these kids, saying very little about what we hope happens to the parents.

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