CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #8

[rosemadderlake]

I'm not sure if that house was left behind when they moved to California or if they moved to another house in TX first?

When they moved to Cali it was about 2010, and at that point the eldest would have been about 21. A younger, shorter, person could reach the top of the doorframe if they stood on a stool.

The eyes and mouth look too sad to be something the parent drew of one of the children, and it would be very odd for an adult to do? I wouldn't expect a depiction of one of the parents to look this sad.

Considering the state of the house in other ways, the drawing kind of pales in comparison, though I don't suppose LT/DT would agree. But there could have been punishment for it. Or it could have been done as they were getting ready to leave and so not visible for very long but instead sort of left to posterity.

It is a shame that we can't see the bottom of the picture, I think it would help a lot to see the whole thing, otherwise it's not that much different to looking at clouds or ink splodges where everyone can see something slightly different and it's impossible to say who's right and who's wrong.

The head reminds me of the cartoon character Tintin?

Bbm: Yes, very plausible. IMO. Wondering about drawings in journals? It's such a subliminal way of communicating that the parents might have perceived as jibberish?

Wondering if these kids, and I wouldn't be surprised, had their own code of communication. I suspect it was more than one child who planned the escape. And they successfully kept it a secret...

 

[A2FMNST]

When I first saw that drawing, I thought of this old book...
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly

 

[Shelby2]

Don't know if this has been posted but there is an article with more pictures of the Texas home. Quite horrifying. But there is a picture of this drawing that was posted a few threads back that shows it was drawn on a wall. It is quite large and up high by the upper right next to a door. And, the other thing I notice is the circles are almost perfect. That's not easy to do at that scale, especially.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5318481/House-Horrors-pair-fled-Texas-child-sought-help.html

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I may have missed it but it looks like they drew blood coming out of the target?

 

[cady]

I can’t help but to wonder if the initial starvation of the kids was retaliation for the smearing of feces on the wall.

The insane rationale was , “If I don’t feed them, then they can’t put poop on the walls.”.

I just don't think that they had an aversion to poop. They seemed to embrace it in their perversion about eating. Poop is ubiquitous in their homelife. If they "hated" it, they also LOVED to hate it. Someday, someone will study this weirdness and write about it. They apparently made no effort to actually MANAGE disposal of at least 15 bowel movements daily (plus the animal waste) so the only conclusion I can draw, is that they liked it or were at least comfortable with it that way. It probably became routine after the firstborn. YECCH JMO

 

[JulieNMM]

Hi everyone, I have been fascinated with this case for some reason. I do live about 10 miles away (Murrieta!), so it is a local issue. I am so glad I found this thread because you guys have been so busy getting info that I couldn't find. Not sure why it took me so long to look here -- I've been a member for a few years. Anyway, I have had a bunch of questions about this case and haven't seen most or any of them addressed so thought I would ask here...

1. Only one count of a lewd act? Is that because that's all they can prove at the moment -- ie, the 2 year old is proof of the lewd act? The 2 year old was conceived 3 years ago (all times are approx.) when the 17 yo was about 14 yo. I'm thinking she was raped, had the baby, and saw the cycle of abuse about to start again and that's why SHE was the one who escaped. Sure she was skinny and malnourished, but as someone earlier said, malnourished people have babies in Africa and other poor places, so it is possible. Plus, LT is 49 so was 47 when the baby was born, and she had not had a baby since she was 37 (child #12 is 12, right?). Fishy that she is all of a sudden having kids at her late age...

2. My son actually attends the same community college and he had to show ID only once. I know this because he lost his wallet and has no ID and was worried about that, but it wasn't a problem. You are required to take the reading and math pre-tests but you can enroll without actually doing that. My son did... They just told him to do it "later". Also, the college isn't expensive. My son is taking a full load and it cost $691 a semester, books were another $635! An earlier poster asked how they could afford it and about pell grants and college kids being $30K in debt, but that is not the case for this particular community college. But why was the son allowed to go to college? I think that maybe the parents thought he was the best chance out of all the kids to get a little educated and then get a job and be able to support the family once DT retired, or stopped working for whatever reason. Also, the oldest son has glasses but the second son doesn't and looks to have crossed eyes. The oldest son got to go to college. In the photos I've seen, he is wearing sneakers and not flip flops. I wonder if DT and LT treated him a little better than the other kids, maybe because he's male?

3. Someone asked if he had a social security number to enroll in college. Wouldn't all of the kids have social security numbers? You need them to be considered a dependent on tax forms. Which leads me to my next question. DT made $140K a year. Totally possible as a 56yo with a lot of experience in a technical field. In fact, my hubby makes that much and is about the same age and also in a technical field. BUT, my DH has a lot of responsibility at work and is valuable to his company. He has annual reviews and gets raises and praise from his bosses, and has been given increasing amounts of responsibility. Was DT a good worker with lots of responsibilities? It doesn't seem, from what I've seen, as if he would do well in that kind of role. Technology is constantly evolving -- was DT able to keep up with the changes? In a technical field like his, that is very important and usually requires additional training or seminars or reading, etc. Also, WHEN did DT work? If the kids slept all day and were awake all night, did he work at night? Did he work during the day and then come home and slept while the kids were forced to stay awake?

4. Where did all of their money go? $140K a year and 14 dependents means he probably wasn't paying a lot of taxes. This would give him about $10K a month take home. A mortgage on a $350K house, including taxes, insurance, etc is no more than $2500. They obviously weren't spending much money on the kids...I know for me, my kids cost a ton! LOL. Between cell phones, food, clothes, extracurricular activities, and so on. They had 4 cars but none of them are expensive or new. So $7500 a month for cell phones for 2 people, a normal amount of food for 2 and a little food for 13, electricity/gas, Internet? cable TV? gas for the cars, car insurance, car payments, what else? No medical bills apparently and not much spent on clothes.

Well those are my main questions. Thanks for reading and looking forward to everyone's responses!

ETA. Thought of one more. About Disney. Annual passes start at $340 a year per person. If they even had annual passes. I think they probably only went once every few years. One-day entrance fees are about $100 per person. That is $1500 for one trip but if only take once every few years is not too bad. Plus, when I go to Disneyland, all my money goes for the overpriced food and souvenirs, which they probably didn't partake of. And those matching outfits? Puulllease. They look like $3 shirts from Walmart and not expensive Disney clothes. Most had on $1 flip flops. And they do take your fingerprints at Disney World in Florida, but not at Disneyland in California. Now they just take your picture to make sure your face matches if you try to use the ticket again.

 

[Jondy09]

I'm a little afraid to post this because of judgment, but the restraints conversation is weighing on my mind.

I work with kids and adults (up to 21) who the public schools cannot handle because of their level of violence or self-injurious behavior. I'm talking about a 6 year old who detached a retina in one eye through head banging, a boy who broke his own leg kicking through a wall, a 19 year old who knocked a teacher out, and another who threw a pair of scissors at someone's head with enough force that they stuck into the wall. In other words, they are truly a danger to themselves or others.

We use quiet rooms. If a kid is at risk of hurt themselves in the quiet room (ex. choking themselves with something), we go in and hold them until they are no longer trying to hurt themselves or others. We are only allowed to hold a kid for 10 minutes and then we have to try to release them because of worries about nerve damage. If they are still unsafe, we have to try a new hold to decrease the likelihood of nerve damage. In training, we heard stories about accidents where kids were hurt because adults utilized restraints incorrectly. I'm scared to imagine the level of nerve damage these kids might endure. We have video cameras everywhere and we must document every instance of restraint, even if it is 5 seconds long.

Also, regardless of whether a kid is in the middle of banging their head against the wall, if they say they need to use the bathroom, we have to let them use the bathroom.

A co-worker used to work in a psychiatric hospital and they had similar rules about chemical and mechanical restraints.

There is no feasible reason to restrain someone for long lengths of time, ever! Many of my students have intellectual disabilities; that also is not a reason to restrain for long periods of time! Plus, they aren't learning coping skills in restraint. It is our last resort when we can't keep them safe any other way. If we just kept them in a locked closet all day, they'd never learn to deal with disappointment safely. We would never see progress. Kids are violent because they don't know how to handle their emotions or get what they need in another way.

It is impossible these restraints were "legitimate". In fact, we had one little boy who came to us after CPS found him in a similar condition (naked, chained to a bed in his own waste). The government oversees and approves our use of restraint, but his parents were put in jail despite claiming they had no other way to keep him safe. Restraint should never be used as punishment or as a way to make things easier on parents or staff. It is only allowed in acute crisis situations.

I've been following this case for days and it makes me sick. It makes me more ill to think people even entertain the idea that this treatment could be acceptable if the kids were disabled.

I'm sorry if I'm dredging up an argument and all the posts about possible reasons for restraints were attempts to figure out an argument the defense could make... I worried some posts went beyond an attempt to decipher a possible defense and argued that it was okay. It is hard to tell tone and meaning with text.

Edited to add: No one I work with (or have heard of) enjoys restraining. It is a risk for both us and the children we're trying to help transition to a less restrictive environment. I've gone home and cried about my kids. I celebrate days where no one needs restraint to stop injuries. I'm disgusted that anyone would enjoy restraining another human being, especially their own children.

Thank you for all the work you do for victims! I only stumbled upon WS while researching this case. I'm in awe of the ways you all have helped LE over the years.

 

[ShHolmz]

Looks like either a target, or a hurting, hungry stomach. Not sure which.

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When I first saw that drawing, I thought of this old book...
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly

Maybe one of the older children trying to explain pregnancy to the younger ones? One thing that keeps me from thinking the father drew it, is the arms, those are helpless arms. IMO only. But the scary eyes and the pig nose do resemble the mother

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe one of the older children trying to explain pregnancy to the younger ones? One thing that keeps me from thinking the father drew it, is the arms, those are helpless arms. IMO only. But the scary eyes and the pig nose do resemble the mother

Interesting theory! Maybe the one who was attending 3rd grade drew the picture? Could be it was read to them at story time in school, and she came home and related it to her sibs. I get the feeling most of these kids are curious and smart, and somehow entertained themselves.

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[kaen]

I'm a little afraid to post this because of judgment, but the restraints conversation is weighing on my mind.

I work with kids and adults (up to 21) who the public schools cannot handle because of their level of violence or self-injurious behavior. I'm talking about a 6 year old who detached a retina in one eye through head banging, a boy who broke his own leg kicking through a wall, a 19 year old who knocked a teacher out, and another who threw a pair of scissors at someone's head with enough force that they stuck into the wall. In other words, they are truly a danger to themselves or others.

We use quiet rooms. If a kid is at risk of hurt themselves in the quiet room (ex. choking themselves with something), we go in and hold them until they are no longer trying to hurt themselves or others. We are only allowed to hold a kid for 10 minutes and then we have to try to release them because of worries about nerve damage. If they are still unsafe, we have to try a new hold to decrease the likelihood of nerve damage. In training, we heard stories about accidents where kids were hurt because adults utilized restraints incorrectly. I'm scared to imagine the level of nerve damage these kids might endure. We have video cameras everywhere and we must document every instance of restraint, even if it is 5 seconds long.

Thank you for the perspective. I work with students with disabilities. On some earlier thread, I posted a link to the legal perimeters of restraints. I agree that the idea that chains and locks would be seen as acceptable in any environment besides the middle ages and asylums 70 years ago is just not correct.

Thank you for the work you do with those who have disabilities where self-injury and injury to others is prevalent. We are also beset by cameras and always have another person with us when we work with our students-- for the safety of the student and the adult support staff.

 

[flourish]

When I first saw that drawing, I thought of this old book...
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly

Lol

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13881993

I agree about the book and clearly forgot my link in my post hee hee. Great minds and all anyway I could see it being related to that book and can see why these particular kids might specifically enjoy it.
ETA there is a song which goes along with the story book which makes it extra fun imo

 

[JaneEyre]

Quoting myself: difficult to get sharper close up on iPad editor, but I think this is a ink smudge as the color is consistent in the photo, and the drawing is loose cartoon drawn by a visually skilled person.

I don't think it is a kids drawing because of the height, scale, and in Texas, how many kids were there and what were their ages... They were very young at this time? Just some thoughts.

I assumed it was drawn from a top bunk bed.

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[Spellbound]

I am terrible at reading pictures ... but it looks to me like a well-drawn handgun in the center, with a large wound in the stomach. It seems too high on the wall to have been drawn by a kid..? Was it meant to be a threat?

 

[JulieNMM]

KB Homes has model homes all out here in California (formerly called Kaufman and Broad). While the homes are models, the model homes have no screens on the windows. I don't know whether this is because the screens get dirty very easily in California and are hard to clean or what, but if you go to a new development in California and walk through the model homes, the windows are locked and there are no screens (and no interior doors).

Also I recall that I read somewhere that the kids were out in the front yard installing sod to reinstall some sod after some incident with some sort of complaint about yard upkeep. This could have been the HOA or someone else, but cutting sod requires a knife and perhaps the kids kept the knife.

Also, the last thing they do before the developers turn over the models to be sold is install the screens and the interior doors. This model would have been the last to sell because they had to tear out the sales office that used to be in the garage and return the space to a real garage.

I am not sure what type of screens were installed, but in my own struggle with screens and cleaning them every year, some are really hard to pop out without some sort of screwdriver. The window frames are made with some sort of non-wood material so nailing would be hard to do, but they could have been secured close with some other type of contraption. I doubt the monster parents allowed the windows to be opened because the stench would have noticeable to those passing by, particularly the front window that the 17 year old escaped from.

I just bought a new house after looking at a model of it. There were no screens on any of the windows and I asked the seller why and she said because it looks better/nicer when potential buyers look out the windows, to not see the screens. The new houses do come with screens, and presumably they add them on to the model house when it gets sold eventually. Same with internal doors. There were no doors in the model but there are obviously doors in the real houses. Also, when I would visit Europe (and I used to live there) very few windows had screens. Which was annoying because very few houses had AC, so you had to open the windows to get air but then you got bugs!

 

[December]

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-288.html

Link reveals information about lewd conduct charge. It says this is punishable by up to 10 years in prison under some circumstances. Those circumstances seem to be similar to some of the ones known in this case (IMO, I am not a lawyer).

However, it is important to note, California has a law that says RAPE right in the name. I believe if the girl who told investigators about whatever led to this charge had mentioned having a baby, then DT would be up on rape charges. It would be a potentially harsher punishment.

Please, let us remember there is a real girl who endured yet another horrible type of treatment from her father. The lewd act is not the same thing as rape. Such as, it is usually not described as the type of thing that can cause pregnancy. Those acts are RAPE and there is a specific law for that.

JMO.

 

[Ct92404]

I have no idea what to make of the drawing. But I think it was definitely made by one of the kids, most likely one of the older kids. I just can't figure out what they were trying to depict. What really concerns me though is the sad expression on the face. The face is frowning as if they are scared or sad. Any time a kid draws a face that looks sad, to me that is a BAD sign. Every time I've seen a kid try to draw a person, they've always drawn the face smiling...including the drawings I remember making when I was a kid, or drawings my friends did when they were little. The faces were always smiling or at least kind of neutral. I think because it's hard to draw people (I still can't do it even now!) and so kids will just draw whatever expression seems the most common or natural. A normal, healthy kid will usually draw smiling faces. But that drawing on the wall definitely looks sad or scared. I'm not a psychologist, but this is my gut reaction. It makes me think some truly nightmarish things were going on as far back as when the family was living in Texas.

Everything about this case is heartbreaking.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I've been spinning my brain on a couple of unusual elements of the drawing.

The eyes, they are the reverse of a Charlie Brown illustration style.

 

[Rosegold68]

On one of the wedding photos.... last one as the baby was present, I noticed the oldest girl has a bra strap slipping down her arm

Was surprised to see that. Though on reflection it might have been a cami top under the pink dress. Someone bought her appropriate underwear at least

 

[ApricotElle]

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[rosemadderlake]

I have no idea what to make of the drawing. But I think it was definitely made by one of the kids, most likely one of the older kids. I just can't figure out what they were trying to depict. What really concerns me though is the sad expression on the face. The face is frowning as if they are scared or sad. Any time a kid draws a face that looks sad, to me that is a BAD sign. Every time I've seen a kid try to draw a person, they've always drawn the face smiling...including the drawings I remember making when I was a kid, or drawings my friends did when they were little. The faces were always smiling or at least kind of neutral. I think because it's hard to draw people (I still can't do it even now!) and so kids will just draw whatever expression seems the most common or natural. A normal, healthy kid will usually draw smiling faces. But that drawing on the wall definitely looks sad or scared. I'm not a psychologist, but this is my gut reaction. It makes me think some truly nightmarish things were going on as far back as when the family was living in Texas.

Everything about this case is heartbreaking.

Yes, I agree, kids tend to depict happiness, although art therapy can be very revealing in abused children.

Thinking it could be an older child's despair for a younger child's pain? Maybe the writing, Jevi, or Jovi is the name or nickname of one of the siblings, younger sib?

 

[laikawolf]

Did anyone see this article? https://www.whittierdailynews.com/2...ost-400000-donated-so-far-to-turpin-children/ Apparently $400,000 has been added to the fund for the Turpin children, including $100,000 from an anonymous donor. iPads are also being collected for them. However, there was one donation that I thought to be particularly odd: 10 dolls from a Christian doll-making company...

[FONT=&quot]On Friday, Sara McCord and Shane Hodges, who recently started a small Christian doll-making business in North Carolina, shipped 18-inch [/FONT]“Girls of Faith” dolls[FONT=&quot] to the Corona Chamber for the 10 Turpin girls.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The women quickly raised funds to send the 10 vinyl-and-cloth “Audrey” and “Hannah” dolls, which retail for $99 each. McCord, who has been a foster parent, said she was somewhat “consumed” by what happened to the Turpin siblings.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“It’s really affected me, as it’s affected thousands of people across the country,” McCord said.[/FONT]