CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #9

[Zelda1010]

...here are the kids in the same dang shirts years later. And something is clearly wrong wrong wrong when compared with the pic I believe to be circa 2008.


https://goo.gl/images/3ykKSr

 

[GrilledCheezy]

So Dr. Oz is saying the older ones have the mind of a first grader? How would he know? Just curious because I question if the facility they're at would release any information about them.

I had the same thought, Rocco. I haven't seen in MSM where anyone in an official capacity has made that statement.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I didn't post the voided question at all. I'm so sorry. I did forget about the zip ties and do agree neglect, and abuse too, happened since forever for these kids, minor & adult. I haven't seen anything about cages...do you have a link? I'm afraid I've been jumbled up with another poster here.

I need to re-read your post, because I just skimmed after the voided comment. I really am not trying to excuse anything, the pictures actually tell me a horrific tale of torture for these kids that cannot be excused.

Ashley is the neighbor that talks in multiple interviews about the animal cages kept in the living room. She repeated it on the Dr. Phil show and the interview is probably on line - [FONT=&quot]“It was so nasty on the inside. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They had trashed the brick house so bad that they couldn’t live in it. They had pulled carpet out of it. The living room area had newspapers, and animal cages and just filth. The carpet was ripped up. It was plywood that was covered in filth. There was trash everywhere, bedrooms set up like barracks with bunk beds.” You can google Turpins along with "animal cages" and multiple links come up.

These animal cages are in addition to the closets with locks.

[/FONT]

 

[Zelda1010]

Ashley is the neighbor that talks in multiple interviews about the animal cages kept in the living room. She repeated it on the Dr. Phil show and the interview is probably on line - [FONT=&quot]“It was so nasty on the inside. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They had trashed the brick house so bad that they couldn’t live in it. They had pulled carpet out of it. The living room area had newspapers, and animal cages and just filth. The carpet was ripped up. It was plywood that was covered in filth. There was trash everywhere, bedrooms set up like barracks with bunk beds.” You can google Turpins along with "animal cages" and multiple links come up.

These animal cages are in addition to the closets with locks.

[/FONT]

Thank you. I was visiting my mom and missed Dr Phil. After all the discussion here of the questionable credibility of those seeking the media, I admittedly didn't seek out a way to view it.

Please know I, too, was particularly offended by the idea that knowing whether or not the 82 lb 29 year old had voided prior to weighing was relevant. It isn't.

Thank you for identifying where the earlier photo is taken. I was curious about the location.

 

[rsd1200]

"Mind of a first grader," does not have to pertain to intellectual abilities. Cognitive abilities include perceptive abilities, emotional abilities, creative abilities, social abilities, decision making, motor skills, etc. I have worked with children who have incredible intellectual abilities, but the emotional and social capability of a small child. In cases of neglect and abuse, there will always the children who can do well intellectually, despite what they've experienced. Usually/Especially, when the children have solid early learning skills. (We know that the oldest child went to school until third grade.) It would not surprise me, that many of the adults (or the 17 year old, who is close in age) have functioning intellectual abilities. From statements, they seemed to have lived some of their young lives not in such isolation. I would imagine the younger children have the worse of the intellectual delays. IMO, all of them likely have profound emotional and social delays. A person can have a genius intellectual ability, and have the emotional and social function of a young child.

We have to remember that the categorization of having the mind of a first grader, does not inherently mean academic or survival abilities. Their cognitive abilities in all other areas were neglected and abused. The younger ones likely had no base of early learning skills or attachments.

IMO.

ETA: We also cannot ignore the fact, that starvation can deteriorate the abilities of previous well formed cognition.

That's pretty much what I meant by seeing the world through the eyes of a first grader. My ex had severe malnutrition before he passed. I've spoke about it on an earlier thread. His cognitive skills and memory were severely hampered. He did come out of some of the confusion after being cared for in the hospital, then a rehab to try to rebuild strength from muscle wasting, and finally assisted living, before he passed. Events in the last years of his life were very sketchy, at best.

 

[rsd1200]

What’s worrisome to me, based on all the speculation about “normal” weight on this thread, is that within the jury pool there are people who will think the same way. If there is a trial, those are the ones the defense will want on the jury...ones who will ignore the refeeding in the hospital, the chaining in feces, the isolation, the strangling, etc., and start nit-picking the weights for some reason, and speculate about the length of time this torture went on.

Personally, I hate to even discuss what defense tactics might be. Am I wrong in recalling that WS discussions inadvertently helped in Casey Anthony’s defense? Even if not, I don’t want to give the defense any ideas in this case...and we would be naive to think the defense doesn’t try to analyze and influence jury composition using available information (That’s what Dr Phil did before Oprah made him famous.) There is NO defense for what the Turpins did to their children, even if some weighed more than others and even if it was “only” for five years (which it wasn’t).
JMO

This is why I worry more about what all the press and Dr. Ozs/Phils in the world are saying about their cognitive skills and first grade mentality, etc... I know what malnutrition can do to a person. I've called my ex and my son has been right there, in his bedroom, and he'd tell me he hadn't seen him in a couple days, thought he was with me!! The defense may use what malnutrition does to one's brain to cast reasonable doubt into the jury's minds. My ex acted almost like a first grader. Our adult child, would go and hold his hand before surgery because he'd be so scared and confused.

 

[DakotaMayi]

What’s worrisome to me, based on all the speculation about “normal” weight on this thread, is that within the jury pool there are people who will think the same way. If there is a trial, those are the ones the defense will want on the jury...ones who will ignore the refeeding in the hospital, the chaining in feces, the isolation, the strangling, etc., and start nit-picking the weights for some reason, and speculate about the length of time this torture went on.

Personally, I hate to even discuss what defense tactics might be. Am I wrong in recalling that WS discussions inadvertently helped in Casey Anthony’s defense? Even if not, I don’t want to give the defense any ideas in this case...and we would be naive to think the defense doesn’t try to analyze and influence jury composition using available information (That’s what Dr Phil did before Oprah made him famous.) There is NO defense for what the Turpins did to their children, even if some weighed more than others and even if it was “only” for five years (which it wasn’t).
JMO

:takeabow: Thank you Lilibet. I couldn't find the right words, but you just did right here.

 

[human]

At least two of them are capable of higher learning though. They may see the world through the "eyes" of a first grader but they set up and planned this escape. Several of them, with the 17 y.o. actually going through with her part. Also, we know that the adult son went to some type of college, or jr. college, classes, and made good grades, and the one sib was able to drive a car (of course I know folks who drove tractors at age 7 or 8, so maybe driving a car and learning traffic laws is not that far-fetched for someone with the mind of a first grader).

My niece who is adopted and has fetal alcohol syndrome convinced her older sister who was six to escape their abusive adoptive home. This was a different home than my sister who adopted them after they escaped. My niece who has fetal alcohol syndrome was four and she planned the escape.

They are from a foreign country. They escaped to an orphanage. The niece has cognitvie skills in different types of ways. She had trouble in school starting in 8th grade.

 

[DakotaMayi]

My niece who is adopted and has fetal alcohol syndrome convinced her older sister who was six to escape their abusive adoptive home. This was a different home than my sister who adopted them after they escaped. My niece who has fetal alcohol syndrome was four and she planned the escape.

They are from a foreign country. They escaped to an orphanage. The niece has cognitvie skills in different types of ways. She had trouble in school starting in 8th grade.

What brave little girls :heartbeat:

 

[gitana1]

Thank you! I'm open to suggestions & corrections! I'm guessing that is #12 in LTs arms and that she is 2ish in the photo. I believe she is 12ish now. That makes the oldest (29-10) 19. She does look young and thin here, but worse later.

My current personal working theory is the neglect really turned to torture as LT possibly struggled to carry a baby #13 to term. I think we know the eldest was removed from public school 20 years ago. We have some anecdotal evidence from the people who came forward to the media that they were weird then, at the very least.

These kids are about a year apart in age near the end so I think the child being held is about 4 maybe?

It seems clear that the kids were subject to severe neglect as in hygiene issues, extreme hoarding and filth in their homes over time, as well as severe emotional abuse, such as isolation, control and punishment through food, as well as some physical abuse (probably whipping them) throughout their childhoods. This overall neglect and abuse was interspersed with episodes of cleaner environments, when they abandoned one house and moved to a new place, and bizarre, surreal trips to Disney or Vegas, during which they were suddenly cleaned up and given new clothes to project a veneer of normalcy.

It also appears that the parents made occasional, self-serving efforts at normalcy with the kids in other ways such as allowing a few to get driver's licenses in order to help transport their group, and allowing the oldest boy to go to community college in a strictly monitored manner.

As LE states, the abuse escalated over time. Indeed it seems that it escalated since the youngest was born. Not sure why or if that was the catalyst or just a coincidence. But clearly, the crazy got more intense. Now, kids who had been isolated and punished at times physically, or with tying, or withholding/limiting foods and neglected when it came to hygiene and education, were now suddenly being chained and for ever-longer periods, strangled, beaten more, forced to lie in their own waste, not given any opportunity to clean themselves, and downright starved.

I never really made the connection, (I can be dense at times!) but the birth of the child coincides exactly with the report that the kids had been planning an escape for two years. Why did her birth cause things to get even worse? Post-partum psychosis? (Ugh, will she try to go for that defense?) The birth causing an increase in psych issues? Suddenly getting a new baby to fawn over after years of not having any, leading to an increase in hatred of the older kids because they more clearly saw the older age of the kids in relation to a new baby? (I get the sense that after the kids are too old to hold, they become objects of disgust and hatred for some reason). As you said, her struggle to carry the child? Why did that lead to an increase in maltreatment?

Your theory is an interesting one. It's so hard to figure this out.

 

[LietKynes]

Seriously ??? Give all of those children to a Duggar ?
Fgs, haven't the Turpin children (adults and minors) suffered enough ??
Thankfully, I don't believe this would ever happen.
They're not puppies or kittens, or the "mission outreach of the month" garbage idea.
:moo:

 

[gitana1]

I’m sure Amy means well and may be wanting to “re-write” her own abusive childhood by showing love to the Turpin survivors. But the Turpins are not puppies or kittens or abused older animals needing a loving home. They are complex human beings with a myriad of physical, emotional and developmental problems. Yes, they need love and stability, but much, much more. No one family is equipped to provide what they need IMO. But I do hope that they can live together at some point if that is what they want and if it is in their best interests.

Yeah. She's silly. But I think her comment was a bit out of context. She said IF she had the room and resources. Still silly. They need very mature, stable adults helping them and a ton of professional help.

Also, I think people out are not realizing that these "kids" are almost all teens and adults, not smaller kids as some of the older photos show.

 

[gitana1]

Wow. That's incredible. You can tell by the hair that it's years. So their growth was stunted prior to 2015 for sure.

 

[human]

Remember they were choked as well.

I imagine trying to take care of 13 kids, one of which is a baby, is too overwhelming. The older children could not help because they would try to escape and they were probably too weak to be of much use. Easier to chain and feed once a day, Just like many people do to dogs.

It is strange they had enough energy to walk at Disney or dance at the weddings. I mean I am surprised that they could. I guess youth helps.

I am sure they had the sadistic ideas all along and as life got more overwhelming, the more controlling they had to get. Add to that the financial issues and moving. Lots of stress.

I do not think the death of her mother had anything to do with it. She had abandoned her family years ago.

A gruesome twosome like that West family in England

 

[kimlynn]

We do have all the information needed. We don't need to know whether the oldest girl "voided" or not. What we know is that, according to medical staff
and LE, the 12 kids were severely malnutritioned such that they needed IVs and have cognitive delays due to chronic malnutrition.

There is zero reason for the medical officials to lie.

Your sister wasn't chained to a bed, made to wallow in her own waste and starved. So her weight and frame is irrelevant.



Ive downloaded the ones with the kids but I see someone else found a version!

The voided comment stood out to me as well. Does anyone really think that this young woman was getting enough food that voiding would really make any kind of difference in her weight?
Really grasping...IMO

 

[blue22]

I have read so many posts here and so many articles...forgive me if this has been discussed and I don't remember!!

Do we know a ballpark of when the last time the children and adult children were captured in photos or seen by other people? How many years it's been? Was it the last vow renewal and the older son being in college until 2016?

 

[rsd1200]

Ashley is the neighbor that talks in multiple interviews about the animal cages kept in the living room. She repeated it on the Dr. Phil show and the interview is probably on line - [FONT=&amp]“It was so nasty on the inside. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]They had trashed the brick house so bad that they couldn’t live in it. They had pulled carpet out of it. The living room area had newspapers, and animal cages and just filth. The carpet was ripped up. It was plywood that was covered in filth. There was trash everywhere, bedrooms set up like barracks with bunk beds.” You can google Turpins along with "animal cages" and multiple links come up.

These animal cages are in addition to the closets with locks.

[/FONT]

They had dogs. I've a feeling the dogs were caged and possibly allowed to die. One fella who snooped around in there spoke of finding dead dogs, and two live ones that were loose and feeding on diaper contents. Had the others been free, they could have foraged on diaper contents too. Just my take. I've seen cases of animals left in cages to die, or they've died from an ailment and the owner just leaves them in the cage,out back, doesn't bother to bury them. Again, the Ts even saw their pets as mere "things", imo.

 

[Zelda1010]

In between the other two pictures we have several sets of group pictures at Disney.

They appeared to pose with 3 different characters this day. I'm sad to say I believe this could be around the lewd act charge time frame, but maybe a couple years prior. The older kids are way too thin. Goodness knows if any marks are visible. There are four girls with pigtails and one with bangs.




There are two group shots with similar clothes, but they are from two more separate "photo ops", I believe. The hairband changes and hair length in general, plus obv. parents clothes. In one there is pretty serious bruising on one of the youngest that isn't visible unless you find an unblurred version. No one is well, imo.




I think the other red shirt photo I posted would come after this, perhaps recreating the grandparent photo. No one is well in that one, imo, and it was taken years ago already too.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

They had dogs. I've a feeling the dogs were caged and possibly allowed to die. One fella who snooped around in there spoke of finding dead dogs, and two live ones that were loose and feeding on diaper contents. Had the others been free, they could have foraged on diaper contents too. Just my take. I've seen cases of animals left in cages to die, or they've died from an ailment and the owner just leaves them in the cage,out back, doesn't bother to bury them. Again, the Ts even saw their pets as mere "things", imo.

In one of the locations in Texas, yes two dogs ran out of the house when someone opened the door after the Turpins had abandoned it. No one mentioned finding dead animals in cages (I think they were elsewhere in the house and dead), but it would not surprise me if the older kids were kept in closets and the smaller kids were kept in cages. There are not many closets in most houses after all (usually one in each bedroom and perhaps one other main closet). In the newer house in Perris, most of the closet doors seem to be sliding double doors. If they were kept in cages, it will probably come out in later court proceedings.

 

[Satch]

They had dogs. I've a feeling the dogs were caged and possibly allowed to die. One fella who snooped around in there spoke of finding dead dogs, and two live ones that were loose and feeding on diaper contents. Had the others been free, they could have foraged on diaper contents too. Just my take. I've seen cases of animals left in cages to die, or they've died from an ailment and the owner just leaves them in the cage,out back, doesn't bother to bury them. Again, the Ts even saw their pets as mere "things", imo.

That's why it is even more shocking that the dogs in the Turpin's California house were well-fed and cared for.

Satch