Head blow vs strangulation
- Thread starter santos1014
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JMO8778 said:
I don't know where the photos of JonBenet's bathroom are located...could be she was slammed against the cabinet, the towel heater, the toilet, the bathtub...
I believe that JonBenet did get hit over the head in her bathroom which rendered her unconcious. Her death occured in the basement.
JMO8778
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she couldnt flip on a light in JB's room..it went to the ceiling fan only.so it makes sense to carry a FL into the room,at least for initial light.she may not have ever turned on a bedroom light,in order for JB to get back to sleep more easily.JusticeSeekerE said:
JusticeSeeker: there was urine on JB's sheets, but by the time the police finally thought of collecting them, the sheets were (already) dry, and since JB was a chronic bedwetter, it it impossible to say if the urine was from that night or from previous accidents.JusticeSeekerE said:
But you are right, JusticeSeeker: if JB had wet the bed on that fatal night, the Ramseys most likely would have removed the wet sheet fom the bed.
I believe JB never went to bed on that night, but still it is possible that a soiling/wetting accidenct triggered parental rage while the child had not yet gone to bed, for JB wet and soiled herself also during daytime (= when she was not asleep).
Suppose JB, excited from Christmas day, refused to got to bed, Patsy was stressed-out and pressed for time since they had to get up early in the morning for their flight, it was already close to midnight (John and Burke having gone to bed already), and when JB then also wet and soiled herself, Patsy flew off the handle, yanked her around, slamming her against the bathtub, the result being the tragic head injury.
I think the underwear in which JB was finally found was put on her after death, and that the urine which JB shed in this underwear was post-mortem release of which the Ramseys in their panicked frenzy did not even become aware of.
What Dr. Ronald Wright (one of the experts consulted on the case) said about the urine would support the toilet rage theory imo.
For Dr. Wright pointed out that normally, at post-mortem urine release, people's bladders don't empty completely , but only partly. As opposed to that, JB's bladder was completely empty, and Dr. Wright concluded that she must have evacuated her bladder not long before her death. The bladder refills constantly, and by the time JB drew her last breath, the small amount of urine which had collected again was now emptied completely.
JMO8778 said:
Right...the flashlight would have been in Patsy's hands if she did not want to drown the room in bright lights.
We know that LHP changed JonBenet's sheets on the 23d of December. After looking at the crime scene photos...LHP stated that the sheets on JonBenets bed were not the sheets she put on.
I do not believe JonBenet wet the bed on the 24th of December because Patsy told LE that JonBenet did not wet the bed that night. Her pink pajamas were not wet and I believe did not smell of urine.
I believe Patsy changed JonBenet's sheets Christmas night after discovering that she wet the bed on Christmas night..... because of the cords fibers on the sheets.
My belief is that JonBenet was dressed in the large size 12 panties post-mortem because the blood on her vagina did not match the corresponding blood on the panties.
But the sheets which the police collected from JB's bed did have urine on them. The urine was dry (by the time the police finally thought of collecting the sheets, even fresh urine would have dried - also JB was a chronic bedwetter), but if Patsy changed JB's sheets Christmas night, no urine would have been found on them. I don't believe JB ever went to bed on that night.Toltec said:
To me, JB's bed does not look as if anyone had slept in it that night.
rashomon said:
You are right...JonBenet's bed does not look like she slept in it. Perhaps the sheets were changed Christmas eve. LHP changed JonBenet's sheets on the 23d of December...JonBenet wets them that night...wakes up Christmas eve...Patsy washes her sheets and blanket and puts fresh sheets on her bed.
This is what I believed happened: Linda Hoffman Pugh changes JonBenet's sheets on the 23d of December. The crime scene photos shown to LHP verify that the sheets are not the same ones she placed on JB's bed.
Were they changed Christmas Eve or Christmas Day?
My guess is Christmas Eve because JonBenet woke up wet....
JonBenet removes her wet panties and pink Barbie nightgown....
Patsy places JonBenet's sheets, white blanket, wet panties and pink Barbie nightgown in the washer. After they are washed, she places the items in the dryer. She then places fresh sheets on JonBenet's bed....
Patsy then bathes JonBenet. They go about their business Christmas Eve....
JonBenet goes to bed wearing her pink pajama top and bottom....
JonBenet wakes up Christmas morning, goes downstairs to open her gifts. She is photographed by John that morning...
JonBenet changes into her play clothes...
JonBenet gets ready for the Whites..she dresses up in her Gap outfit....
NO BATH CHRISTMAS DAY....because she did not wet the bed Christmas Eve night.
After the murder of JonBenet, she is placed in the wine cellar wrapped in her white blanket. Patsy does not notice the pink barbie nightgown that was stuck on the blanket due to static cling.
It makes sense that the blanket was retrieved from the dryer Christmas night. The blanket and sheet and nightgown were still in the dryer from the morning before. What intruder would think to look for a blanket in the dryer?
Toltec,
Applying the kiss principle, JonBenet's bed did not look slept in precisely because she never reached it.
She was killed shortly after snacking pineapple, also information not released so far, but important, is were JonBenet's fingerprints on the spoon lying in the bowl?
Possibly because she shared someone elses bed that night, as she may have done the night she was killed?
Could you expand upon this, are you saying she was wrapped in the blankets before being taken down to the basement, or while she was actually down there?
Her pink barbie nightgown is like the pineapple its a give away, it was not clinging to the blankets it was lying on the floor close by but separate. You do not fake a crime-scene then leave a barbie gown lying about, its just as easy to remove it when leaving, just as allegedlly other items were removed.
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UK, I think you might be right about her never reaching her bed. But, do you think there was any altercation in her bathroom at all. There were hair ties all over the place, am I right??? And the rolled up turtleneck (which could have been there from earlier in the day. It does appear that there was some sort of altercation in that bathroom. What do you thing?
Solace,
There may have been, alternatively the scattering of hair-ties may simply represent an accident during the process of revising JonBenet's staging, bear in mind, most people doubt JonBenet went to the White's wearing assymetric ponytails, never mind any at all, and Patsy stated that JonBenet was placed directly to bed with only her velvet pants being changed, so her hair-ties may be like the pineapple and barbie-nightgown evidence of fabrication by the Ramsey's?
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I cannot believe that no pictures were taken at the White's that night. What do you think about that?
Solace,
Of course there were photos, and Steve Thomas has seen them and compared JonBenet as seen at the party and her postmortem status, so he knows whether she was wearing ponytails or not. I suspect not!
You would think by now someone would have something. I mean you cannot even find an interview anymore on the internet. The two interviews of Patsy and John on CourtTV cannot be accessed. You can find nothing if it portrays them in a bad light.
But why did the sheets which were collected from JB's bed have urine on them?
She wet the bed again. She is going to wet it one night and not the next, possible, not likely though. And Linda said the washer was going every morning when she arrived - sheets being washed. They just never washed the sheets the next morning because she had been killed the night before. She wet that bed.
Please do not assume that I am assuming that of course she wet the bed every night. I am not, but as of late, she had been. There was urine on the sheets. She wet the bed. That is it.
The blood on her panties...the drops do not correspond with the blood on her vaginal area meaning her underwear were changed.