Gun Control Debate #3

[kittythehare]

this could change in 5 minutes and I didn't know whether I should post it or not..
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-goes-gun-grabber-prompting-white-house-clean-up?ref=scroll

“Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court,” Trump said, breaking with his own vice president on live TV. “Because that's another system. Because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures.”

The president continued, sounding like the gun-grabbing Democrats he’d once warned against: “I like taking the guns early. Like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida… To go to court would have taken a long time. So you could do exactly what you're saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.”

He endorsed legislation first pushed by the Obama White House to expand federal background checks for private gun sales, shot down GOP efforts to expand the rights of concealed carry permit-holders, and even suggested reviving a Democratic measure to ban “assault weapons.”

 

[Spellbound]

Please put members on ignore if they are irritating you rather than engage and then start alerting.

Ignore and Scroll.

Different opinions are welcome as long as they are within our Terms of Service.

Tricia

Opinions and ideas are definitely welcome. But rudeness for the sake of irritating should not be.
JMO

 

[Doghairrules]

The conspiracy theorists anger me so much. Families after Sandy Hook got/still get so much abuse, claiming such ridiculous things like "your child never existed" that it is just staggering. Why can't these people accept that gun control doesn't work. Agencies aren't staging or making up mass shootings to get guns off people, otherwise the guns would be long gone by now.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-...-victims-parents-harassed-by-truthers/7546536

They were saying Dalton was staged within 10 minutes of the news that it was a teacher. I think social media platforms should remove those posts. I can’t imagine how hurtful they are to traumatized people. [emoji22]

 

[Doghairrules]

So we've never enacted laws regarding access to materials used to make bombs in response to/after a bombing?
I remember after the Oklahoma City bombing there were some changes at least proposed...

Hmm

"In 2007, lawmakers worried about criminal or terrorist use of the chemical passed legislation instructing the Department of Homeland Security to set up a program to regulate the purchase ammonium nitrate. Four years later the department created the Ammonium Nitrate Security Program."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-pushes-rules-explosive-fertilizer/31075955/

Didn’t they also start putting the barriers up in front of federal buildings after Oklahoma?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Proposal To See Convicted Animal Abusers Lose Gun Rights

Under federal and state law, anyone convicted of domestic violence loses their right to legally own a gun, but there’s a push to also see that penalty extended to anyone convicted of animal abuse.

The Illinois State Crime Commission is behind the proposal. They say it would be an irrevocable, lifetime penalty for all offenders who would lose their ability to receive a Firearm Owner Identification card, eliminating their ability to purchase or own a gun in Illinois.

Jerry Elsner, executive director for the commission, is urging lawmakers to go along. He says people who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance. “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile. There really is not cure for it. It just gets worse. They pose a risk to our society.”

Some studies suggest that cruelty to animals is a precursor to other violent crime, specifically involving people. Elsner cited the Sutherland Springs, Texas shooter who claimed to buy animals online to use as "target practice" before his shooting rampage that killed 26 churchgoers.

“They almost go hand in hand. They torture animals and then they move up. They move up to the ranks of serial killers.”

Although gun rights and regulation are hot-button issues throughout the country currently, Elsner says this is not a gun issue. He calls it "a public safety issue."

https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/proposal-to-see-convicted-animal-abusers-lose-gun-rights


---
Imo- The Illinois proposal could be a federal blueprint on red flag identifiers. The "heinous, torturous behavior" identified, way before weaving through complex mental health diagnosis, definitions, and privacy laws... Future Felonies, etc...

It could empower the public to see something, video something, say something, too. Cruz was violent to the neighborhood children, but he tortured and killed the neighborhood dogs, chickens, cats, squirrels, birds and frogs, and god knows what else.

That Cruz's neighbor, who spoke out, was considering moving out of fear shows how little recourse anyone felt they had. And yet she and others knew he would go on to kill.

Animal cruelty has long been thought the "practice round" for the most dangerous among us.

Jmo

 

[flourish]

Didn’t they also start putting the barriers up in front of federal buildings after Oklahoma?

Yes. My father worked in the federal building in our town at the time and they removed the ability to park right in front of it after that.

 

[Poppyflower]

Proposal To See Convicted Animal Abusers Lose Gun Rights

Under federal and state law, anyone convicted of domestic violence loses their right to legally own a gun, but there’s a push to also see that penalty extended to anyone convicted of animal abuse.

The Illinois State Crime Commission is behind the proposal. They say it would be an irrevocable, lifetime penalty for all offenders who would lose their ability to receive a Firearm Owner Identification card, eliminating their ability to purchase or own a gun in Illinois.

Jerry Elsner, executive director for the commission, is urging lawmakers to go along. He says people who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance. “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile. There really is not cure for it. It just gets worse. They pose a risk to our society.”

Some studies suggest that cruelty to animals is a precursor to other violent crime, specifically involving people. Elsner cited the Sutherland Springs, Texas shooter who claimed to buy animals online to use as "target practice" before his shooting rampage that killed 26 churchgoers.

“They almost go hand in hand. They torture animals and then they move up. They move up to the ranks of serial killers.”

Although gun rights and regulation are hot-button issues throughout the country currently, Elsner says this is not a gun issue. He calls it "a public safety issue."

https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/proposal-to-see-convicted-animal-abusers-lose-gun-rights


---
Imo- The Illinois proposal could be a federal blueprint on red flag identifiers. The "heinous, torturous behavior" identified, way before weaving through complex mental health diagnosis, definitions, and privacy laws... Future Felonies, etc...

It could empower the public to see something, video something, say something, too. Cruz was violent to the neighborhood children, but he tortured and killed the neighborhood dogs, chickens, cats, squirrels, birds and frogs, and god knows what else.

That Cruz's neighbor, who spoke out, was considering moving out of fear shows how little recourse anyone felt they had. And yet she and others knew he would go on to kill.

Animal cruelty has long been thought the "practice round" for the most dangerous among us.

Jmo

This would make me SO happy! I hope a national database will hold all the info so it can be referenced in all 50 states. Time for the research and technology to merge to create a safer US- for animals and people <3

Thank you for posting this. Most of my hope has dwindled and this makes me think that maybe that is a twinkle of light I see down in this tunnel.

 

[kittythehare]

Proposal To See Convicted Animal Abusers Lose Gun Rights

Under federal and state law, anyone convicted of domestic violence loses their right to legally own a gun, but there’s a push to also see that penalty extended to anyone convicted of animal abuse.

The Illinois State Crime Commission is behind the proposal. They say it would be an irrevocable, lifetime penalty for all offenders who would lose their ability to receive a Firearm Owner Identification card, eliminating their ability to purchase or own a gun in Illinois.

Jerry Elsner, executive director for the commission, is urging lawmakers to go along. He says people who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance. “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile. There really is not cure for it. It just gets worse. They pose a risk to our society.”

Some studies suggest that cruelty to animals is a precursor to other violent crime, specifically involving people. Elsner cited the Sutherland Springs, Texas shooter who claimed to buy animals online to use as "target practice" before his shooting rampage that killed 26 churchgoers.

“They almost go hand in hand. They torture animals and then they move up. They move up to the ranks of serial killers.”

Although gun rights and regulation are hot-button issues throughout the country currently, Elsner says this is not a gun issue. He calls it "a public safety issue."

https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/proposal-to-see-convicted-animal-abusers-lose-gun-rights


---
Imo- The Illinois proposal could be a federal blueprint on red flag identifiers. The "heinous, torturous behavior" identified, way before weaving through complex mental health diagnosis, definitions, and privacy laws... Future Felonies, etc...

It could empower the public to see something, video something, say something, too. Cruz was violent to the neighborhood children, but he tortured and killed the neighborhood dogs, chickens, cats, squirrels, birds and frogs, and god knows what else.

That Cruz's neighbor, who spoke out, was considering moving out of fear shows how little recourse anyone felt they had. And yet she and others knew he would go on to kill.

Animal cruelty has long been thought the "practice round" for the most dangerous among us.

Jmo

Am not sure re Cruz and animal cruelty.. know about the chicken dead bird but he was described as loving and gentle towards the cats and dogs they owned..
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200754714.html
not sure it's in this article .. maybe not..

I agree, of course with the proposal.. but.. there's hunting..the ultimate cruelty, IMO (I promise I won't launch into my pet hate and bore everyone to death on this)

It's notoriously difficult in Ireland to prosecute animal cruelty and not much of a will to do it either.. (I hate it here) I think the US fares better and the animal rights activists are more pro-active in obtaining evidence etc..

Definitely a mega red flag-
Thank for posting it, gives me hope..

 

[Poppyflower]

It's notoriously difficult in Ireland to prosecute animal cruelty and not much of a will to do it either.. (I hate it here) I think the US fares better and the animal rights activists are more pro-active in obtaining evidence etc..

Definitely a mega red flag-
Thank for posting it, gives me hope..

I'm sorry to hear that about Ireland. That breaks my heart. I'm an animal lover and because of my empathy and love for them, I'm vegan. I just can't be a part of any cruelty or suffering.

 

[CoolJ]

They can't pull the trigger, if we don't let them have the gun. If we let people have nuclear weapons, no doubt somebody would pull the trigger and detonate one on a city. That's why we don't let people have nuclear weapons.

But maybe the 2nd amendment should include nuclear weapons. Personal nukes. How else would you defend yourself from a tyrannical government that is also sporting nukes?

It only makes sense.

 

[Springrain]

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...georgia-respond-to-shots-fired-at-high-school

I know this has been posted already, but wow. Just wow. Thank God no one was hit.

 

[Blef]

But maybe the 2nd amendment should include nuclear weapons. Personal nukes. How else would you defend yourself from a tyrannical government that is also sporting nukes?

It only makes sense.

Tanks to get the kids to school, just in case? :laughing:

 

[CoolJ]

Proposal To See Convicted Animal Abusers Lose Gun Rights

Under federal and state law, anyone convicted of domestic violence loses their right to legally own a gun, but there’s a push to also see that penalty extended to anyone convicted of animal abuse.

The Illinois State Crime Commission is behind the proposal. They say it would be an irrevocable, lifetime penalty for all offenders who would lose their ability to receive a Firearm Owner Identification card, eliminating their ability to purchase or own a gun in Illinois.

Jerry Elsner, executive director for the commission, is urging lawmakers to go along. He says people who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance. “An animal abuser is similar to a pedophile. There really is not cure for it. It just gets worse. They pose a risk to our society.”

Some studies suggest that cruelty to animals is a precursor to other violent crime, specifically involving people. Elsner cited the Sutherland Springs, Texas shooter who claimed to buy animals online to use as "target practice" before his shooting rampage that killed 26 churchgoers.

“They almost go hand in hand. They torture animals and then they move up. They move up to the ranks of serial killers.”

Although gun rights and regulation are hot-button issues throughout the country currently, Elsner says this is not a gun issue. He calls it "a public safety issue."

https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/proposal-to-see-convicted-animal-abusers-lose-gun-rights


---
Imo- The Illinois proposal could be a federal blueprint on red flag identifiers. The "heinous, torturous behavior" identified, way before weaving through complex mental health diagnosis, definitions, and privacy laws... Future Felonies, etc...

It could empower the public to see something, video something, say something, too. Cruz was violent to the neighborhood children, but he tortured and killed the neighborhood dogs, chickens, cats, squirrels, birds and frogs, and god knows what else.

That Cruz's neighbor, who spoke out, was considering moving out of fear shows how little recourse anyone felt they had. And yet she and others knew he would go on to kill.

Animal cruelty has long been thought the "practice round" for the most dangerous among us.

Jmo

“People who injure animals, regardless of age, don’t deserve a second chance”


Uhmmmm... I guess that doesn’t include hunters and trappers... because those animals aren’t being injured... cause we are gonna eat em I guess.... doesn’t count?

Strange logic.

 

[KaaBoom]

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...georgia-respond-to-shots-fired-at-high-school

I know this has been posted already, but wow. Just wow. Thank God no one was hit.

And yet some are arguing that the solution to school shootings is to arm the teachers. :facepalm:

 

[southernmimi]

It seemed to me that the issue wasn't supporting the second amendment but more the tantrummy, foot stomping insistence that "it's my right" seemingly should put a stop to any discussion. I think maybe people get turned off to a discussion when it becomes similar to one might have with a toddler?

Rights come with responsibilies. "Because I can" ceases to be an acceptable reason when children are dying on the regular. Imo

I believe protecting the rights of others is very important...even if they conflict with what I hold precious and my personal beliefs. I don't own a gun, although I could and have. I won't argue with the typed words of strangers, but will say I strongly believe in the second amendment. If the age requirement to purchase a gun...legally...is raised to 21 that would be a much needed improvement. More deaths are caused by abortions than guns, but that's another topic for another thread.

 

[Cherry]

Way to go Dicks.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The conspiracy theorists anger me so much. Families after Sandy Hook got/still get so much abuse, claiming such ridiculous things like "your child never existed" that it is just staggering. Why can't these people accept that gun control doesn't work. Agencies aren't staging or making up mass shootings to get guns off people, otherwise the guns would be long gone by now.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-...-victims-parents-harassed-by-truthers/7546536

Wholeheartedly agree, Blef. It’s inappropriate on so many levels. It’s bizarre.

Off-topic, but here’s a few interesting reads I found about why some people embrace conspiracy theories.

Here's Why People Believe In Conspiracy Theories
http://time.com/3997033/conspiracy-theories/

Why Do Some People Believe in Conspiracy Theories?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-some-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/

Why People Believe Conspiracy Theories
&#8234;https://n.pr/2hBi8xg&#8236;

 

[Springrain]

And yet some are arguing that the solution to school shootings is to arm the teachers. :facepalm:

Ridiculous. If anyone else had been in that classroom, who knows what would've happened? Nothing good, that's for sure.

Teachers are hired to teach, not act as armed security.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Tanks to get the kids to school, just in case? :laughing:

Build your own killdozer, just to be on the safe side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zRsmcIaB1Q

 

[flourish]

I believe protecting the rights of others is very important...even if they conflict with what I hold precious and my personal beliefs. I don't own a gun, although I could and have. I won't argue with the typed words of strangers, but will say I strongly believe in the second amendment. If the age requirement to purchase a gun...legally...is raised to 21 that would be a much needed improvement. More deaths are caused by abortions than guns, but that's another topic for another thread.

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I support gun ownership. Let me repeat--I, flourish, support the right for US citizens to own firearms. I've never said I don't.

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I don't support unfettered gun access or the current level of same. I strongly support increased firearm regulations. I don't support arming teachers, even willing ones.


I don't support this situation which makes the rights to make a choice infringe upon the rights of others to have a more reasonable level of safety.

And we certainly don't need to discuss abortion.