Gun Control Debate #3

[rsd1200]

Teacher's aides?!

Subs? ... Coaches?! Assistant coaches?

My imagination is spinning just thinking about my HS driver’s ed teacher aka assistant tennis coach aka Coach Feet-Desk with a firearm. If it’s concealed, he’ll have to wear something other than those maroon and white nylon track shorts.

:laughing:


#NotAllParaprofessionals
#NotAllSubs
#NotAllCoaches

Honestly, we had some substitute teachers that we feared. One who was still around, who taught my Dad, in a one-room school house, not far from where we live. In her prime, she'd throw books! Not directly at the students, maybe, but they'd go whizzing! During my Dad's time there, she threw scissors! There was one coach who would take a whiffle bat, and crack the last kid, on the legs, as they ran laps past him, to get the kid to speed it up! I can't imagine, if our teachers like them, had firearms! :hills:

 

[rsd1200]

Make sure you wear an orange reflective vest when you're out on the road with your knives!


And try to avoid startling any overreactive gun carrying drivers!

ETA I looked it up and yeah it can be like $60-120 or so to process one's hunting kill. I'm pretty sure my dad did it himself, but I only ever remember the hung upside down deer in the garage when I did NOT know it was going to be there and it scared the goodness out of me!

Dad would hang his on our swingset. I've got a pic of a sib, my dad, me, and, the deer, hanging upside down from the swingset, with dad holding it's head up so the antlers would show. We're all just cheezin'. Looking back, I just love the pic, but it's so bizarre.

Dad saved a few antlers but he never cared about having the head mounted. One year he was at a yard sale, and a dude had a mounted buck's head, for sale, for like, $5. It's been hanging in the garage for decades now.

 

[KaaBoom]

It's mostly illegal, in the United States anyway, with some exceptions, depending on the state I believe.

I love deer, elk, and antelope meat. My kids prefer it over beef, and so do I. When it's one of my daughter's birthdays or some other special occasion and we ask the kids what they want for dinner, they always say "deer steaks!"

You can buy wild game, from Cabelas.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Wild-Game-Steaks-Variety-Pack/746243.uts

I believe that only applies to wild deer meat. There are private ranches that raise deer. There is even a North American Deer Farmers Association. But I don't see a lot of it in supermarkets.

 

[human]

Stress for children. What needs to be done

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/30/opinion/treating-the-lifelong-harm-of-childhood-trauma.html

 

[rsd1200]

Membership in Gun Groups Is Spiking After the Florida Shooting

http://time.com/5176471/national-rifle-association-membership-florida-shooting/

“Gun owners themselves weren’t being demonized [after Las Vegas]” Turner explained. “But after the Florida shooting, there was a definite push to demonize honest gun owners and to demonize the NRA. And I think that’s what’s provoked their response.”

Gun rights activists said the membership increase is also fueled by a feeling that public rebukes such as corporations ending partnerships with the NRA are simply publicity stunts. “There is no one. NO ONE. Who joins the NRA for a discount on a rental car,” Cleta Mitchell, an NRA member and former Oklahoma state lawmaker who sat on the NRA’s board from 2002 to 2013, said in an email. She was referring to Hertz ending its discount program for NRA members.

While they should want to bring firearms owners to the table, I can understand their hesitance, since, like the families of Sandy Hook, they have been both receiving death threats, and being accused of being crisis actors. (1)

(1) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...death-threats-nra-facebook-quit-a8223146.html

 

[rsd1200]

I suppose that does happen, but I don't see ranch animals living a life of suffering. Especially the cows I see, don't look like they have a care in the world. They just eat and get fat. They seem to have it a lot better then dear, which are getting shot at all the time. The second point is why I'm personally against hunting. I don't think hunting is a humane way of killing an animal.

We raised beef cattle, and we took good care of them. They grazed out on the farm. Dad raised the calves up to a certain size, kept a heifer or two every now and then, to replace an elderly cow, or one who passed. When Dad worked overtime, my Mom and us would do the feeding. I usually helped with the cattle except for cutting them. Dad didn't think I should be there for that. I think he was more uncomfortable than I'd have been. I raised a bottle baby lots of years. I'd get mine from my Aunt and Uncle who were dairy farmers. After it got up a good size, I'd sell it at the yards, and put the money back. I took good care of my calf, I'd teach them to lead, and fool with them every day. It was kinda hard giving them up though, but that's life. I used to get off the bus every day and bring a cow up, to nurse her calf, b/c it was sickly. It became my pet and Dad kept it. I taught him to let me ride him with just a halter on him. We'd go count them every day, I'd ride my mare and check fences, or help round them up, fond memories.

Sorry, OT.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I believe that only applies to wild deer meat. There are private ranches that raise deer. There is even a North American Deer Farmers Association. But I don't see a lot of it in supermarkets.

Here deer and wild boars are raised and sold for meat, though you don't find them very often in supermarkets as well.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

That’s not how it is for most cattle. Factory farming is basically torture all around. If you are seeing dairy cows they are forced to lactate and their babies are taken away almost immediately. Most of them will die.

If people treated their pets the way farmers treat goats, chickens, pigs, etc., they would be arrested. I don’t understand the difference.

This. The animals we see in fields are the exception. Animals raised for meat (or milk or eggs) generally live in horrrendous conditions.

 

[rsd1200]

This. The animals we see in fields are the exception. Animals raised for meat (or milk or eggs) generally live in horrrendous conditions.

My grandparents raised all theirs on their land, as did my parents. The chickens roamed free, as did the turkeys, guineas, cattle, and my horses. My one side of grandparents raised hogs too. I raised one, and only one. When my uncle was little he was attacked by hogs but my grandmother got to him in time. I raised mine from a six week old piglet and when he got up good sized, he came at me. Grabbed my jacket instead of me, thankfully. Dad took him to the yards after that. Hogs can be dangerous. A fella raised them down around my grandparents home and a boar took after him and cut him to pieces. He nearly died. My uncle raised them too. We were never to go into the lot w/o an adult and even then not always. I remember when the men would ride up on their horses, next to the pigs, at slaughter time, and fire a well-aimed shot, and it was done. No suffering. Just dropped. Now suffering is when a bear gets hold of a steer.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

So can we agree that guns for hunting food (not sport) are OK? (As in necessary for survival and protected under Second Amendment protections?)

 

[Bernina]

That’s kinda funny, tbh.

He'll be 30 by the time it gets through the court system, lol!

 

[Bernina]

As a meat eater, I don't understand the appeal of eating wild animals either. I ate a fair amount of venison when I was young and I don't remember it tasting partially good. If it is a good meat to eat, then I have to wonder why ranchers aren't raising it, and selling it in supermarkets.

That said I would prefer that all of our food be raised heather, without chemicals.

Basically, most meat and poultry, dairy products come from genetically modified animals.........they're bred and raised to get more bang out of the buck. Rapid growth rate, and maturity..............all I can say is "YUCK".

But that's an entirely different can of worms.......I like my raw milk, fresh eggs, and raise my own meat. :truce:

 

[flourish]

So can we agree that guns for hunting food (not sport) are OK? (As in necessary for survival and protected under Second Amendment protections?)

Yes. I was kinda thinking maybe a thread in the parking lot about hunting would be appropriate so that discussion could continue if desired but we could get back on topic here?

I'm not telling anyone what to post or not post--I've been part of the hunting conversation so I'm not criticizing anyone, either, just throwing my thought out there. [emoji4][emoji111][emoji192]

 

[Jennifer17]

The countries that have strict gun control all allow hunters and sporting shooters to own guns as long as they are a licensed gun owner and the gun is registered.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM

I don't think that those things directly cause someone to do those things.

However, I do think that repeated exposure, day after day, for hours on end, can have an impact, on mood, and desensitization. If a kid is predisposed to be drawn to this type of media, 24/7, then, it seems it would amp up, something already there. Kind of like any other person, like a person drawn to gambling, shouldn't go to a casino. Kids who show certain traits, probably should be geared toward the NFL or NBA video games, or maybe Subnautica (it even has a VR option), maybe steer away from Horrorcore music too. It can't hurt.

10 Most Violent Video Games of 2017 and Age Appropriate Options

The impact of violent media on kids is still being studied -- especially as game violence jumps from the screen to virtual reality. But research shows that heavy exposure to violent media is associated with aggressive behavior, desensitization, and violent thoughts.

Many parents whose kids ask for these games (or set up a line of credit on game sites such as Steam) may know that the games are violent, but not the specific kinds of violence they contain. Here's where you can find out. Below, we've gathered 10 of the most extreme titles to come out this year. A lot of them are well-designed gameplay experiences, but they're definitely not for kids. The thing is, instead of saying no all the time, we think you'll be more successful if you say, "Wait," and offer kids alternatives in the same genre that are a little less violent and more age-appropriate. Note that we offer two alternatives for each game, one for younger players and one for older players.

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/blog/10-most-violent-video-games-of-2017-and-what-to-play-instead#

BBM: to expand on your thoughts...

The Advertising Industry


Death Sells
Following from this are some dark implications about our norms and motivations as a society but what may be worse is that brands are pushing off these images as fashion, as "edgy" fantasy scenarios, in order to sell stuff.

http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/why-ads-editorials-depicting-violence-keep-happening


Violence
This exhibit focuses on the prevalence of violence in gender advertising. The Ads: It would be difficult to pick the worst ad from the following...all of them are quite disturbing. In some cases the violence is generalized and may include men as victims (#s 11, 59, 81), but in most, women are the target of bane, torture, and killing.

http://www.genderads.com/styled-13/photos-56/


Television, Commercials, and Your Child
Mental health professionals also need to warn parents about the potentially harmful effects that inappropriate content, whether through programs or commercials, can have on younger children. Despite a tendency in many parents to use television as a “babysitter,” unsupervised television watching can be more damaging to young children than they realize.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201307/television-commercials-and-your-child

DRUGS
Why TV Drug Ads Work Despite Disclosing Terrifying Side Effects
The U.S. is one of only two countries that allows direct-to-consumer advertising for prescription drugs.

https://www.alternet.org/drugs/why-tv-drug-ads-work-despite-disclosing-terrifying-side-effects

---

Violence, gratuitous violence, and the number of times per day we hear the side effect of suicide mentioned is staggering - IMO. Growing up, I never heard suicide mentioned in advertising.

Advertising is an especially potent medium. The successful Ad, image, commercial transmits a message in the flash of an image, or in a ten second sound bite, or in the especially powerful visual of ten seconds.

To think the average child watches over 40,000 commercials a year. Does it have influence? Consider how glamorous smoking was in my generation; the Marlboro Man, You've Come a Long Way Baby. Consider Heroin Chic in fashion. Consider ED and the magic blue pill. Consider the overwhelming glut of big pharma drugs and their devastating side effects; suicidal tendencies blasted 24/7.

A young child doesn't have critical thinking skills developed to sort it all out. What is the effect of a culture that uses death, violence, and side effects to sell a product?

One can say fairy tales might have terrifying consequences, too. Without parental censorship, yes they can. Consider Slender Man and the horrific stabbing case in Wisconsin.

The visual medium is by far the most powerful.

So, it's not that we have just a gun violence crisis, we have a violence in culture crisis. What happens to the developing mind when Isis becomes the fantasy idol? And the gun becomes a means to an end.

So while video games alone might not be the cause, we, as a culture, are surrounded by gratuitous violence.

For children, bring back music and the arts to our schools slashed almost into nonexistence. Bring back Physical Ed. IMO.

And coordinate mental health professionals with our law enforcement.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM: to expand on your thoughts...

The Advertising Industry


Death Sells
Following from this are some dark implications about our norms and motivations as a society but what may be worse is that brands are pushing off these images as fashion, as "edgy" fantasy scenarios, in order to sell stuff.

http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/why-ads-editorials-depicting-violence-keep-happening


Violence
This exhibit focuses on the prevalence of violence in gender advertising. The Ads: It would be difficult to pick the worst ad from the following...all of them are quite disturbing. In some cases the violence is generalized and may include men as victims (#s 11, 59, 81), but in most, women are the target of bane, torture, and killing.

http://www.genderads.com/styled-13/photos-56/


Television, Commercials, and Your Child
Mental health professionals also need to warn parents about the potentially harmful effects that inappropriate content, whether through programs or commercials, can have on younger children. Despite a tendency in many parents to use television as a “babysitter,” unsupervised television watching can be more damaging to young children than they realize.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201307/television-commercials-and-your-child

DRUGS
Why TV Drug Ads Work Despite Disclosing Terrifying Side Effects
The U.S. is one of only two countries that allows direct-to-consumer advertising for prescription drugs.

https://www.alternet.org/drugs/why-tv-drug-ads-work-despite-disclosing-terrifying-side-effects

---

Violence, gratuitous violence, and the number of times per day we hear the side effect of suicide mentioned is staggering - IMO. Growing up, I never heard suicide mentioned in advertising.

Advertising is an especially potent medium. The successful Ad, image, commercial transmits a message in the flash of an image, or in a ten second sound bite, or in the especially powerful visual of ten seconds.

To think the average child watches over 40,000 commercials a year. Does it have influence? Consider how glamorous smoking was in my generation; the Marlboro Man, You've Come a Long Way Baby. Consider Heroin Chic in fashion. Consider ED and the magic blue pill. Consider the overwhelming glut of big pharma drugs and their devastating side effects; suicidal tendencies blasted 24/7.

A young child doesn't have critical thinking skills developed to sort it all out. What is the effect of a culture that uses death, violence, and side effects to sell a product?

One can say fairy tales might have terrifying consequences, too. Without parental censorship, yes they can. Consider Slender Man and the horrific stabbing case in Wisconsin.

The visual medium is by far the most powerful.

So, it's not that we have just a gun violence crisis, we have a violence in culture crisis. What happens to the developing mind when Isis becomes the fantasy idol? And the gun becomes a means to an end.

So while video games alone might not be the cause, we, as a culture, are surrounded by gratuitous violence.

For children, bring back music and the arts to our schools slashed almost into nonexistence. Bring back Physical Ed. IMO.

And coordinate mental health professionals with our law enforcement.

Speaking to ads: I found this an interesting way to advertise your firearm.

Navegar, was sued for deaths, in1993, after a California mortgage broker used two Tec-DC9s, one of them modified with a Hell-Fire switch (enabling it to shoot 300 rounds a minute), to kill eight people and wound six in a San Francisco law office, on two grounds: that the guns were marketed to criminals (with ads like "as tough as your toughest customers" and "excellent resistance to fingerprints" in Soldier of Fortune and Guns & Ammo), and that the guns were illegally "ultra-hazardous," like explosives, because their sole purpose is to kill a large number of people as quickly as possible. When the families lost the suit, Robert Ricker of the American Shooting Sports Council said, "This is a big, big win for the firearms industry." The judge in the case however, complained in his opinion that the California assault-weapons ban was "functionally flawed," because it outlawed the Tec-9 but not its copycat substitute, the Tec-DC9.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/how-they-got-the-guns-19990610

 

[Gardenista]

Parkland Shooting Survivor Wonders Why The Media’s Ignoring Him

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03...nd-shooting-survivor-wonders-medias-ignoring/

 

[Gardenista]

I love this man. He knows exactly what's going on and isn't afraid to say it

Ryan Petty Lost His Daughter in the Parkland Shooting. In That Loss, He Gained a Mission.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ryan-...d-shooting-in-that-loss-he-gained-a-mission-4

 

[Blef]

The majority of gun owners..yes IMO, don't own them for the purpose of harming others. To me, when someone murders or does bodily harm through use of a gun, they are either under the influence, mentally ill or just plain evil. Someone with intent will use any means available to cause harm...not just a gun. I think there is a larger and much broader issue.

I have to disagree. Even if you are defending yourself then your purpose for having a gun is to harm another, to defend your life. Guns are designed and built for that very purpose. I once heard someone (and I can't remember who as it was so long ago) who said "if you own a gun you HAVE to be prepared to use that gun and kill someone if necessary).

I take GREAT exception at you saying it's usually mentally ill people (lumped in with EVIL people, and intoxicated) as statistics from all over the world (some examples below) show that the mentally ill are more at risk of being victims of violence than being perpetrators. Maybe the easy availability of guns is the bigger problem.

http://ontario.cmha.ca/documents/violence-and-mental-health-unpacking-a-complex-issue/

https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/02/wms-desmarais-violence2014/

https://www.sane.org/mental-health-and-illness/facts-and-guides/fvm-mental-illness-and-violence

http://jech.bmj.com/content/70/3/223

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Remember, if you go off topic you will get an automatic time out.

A new thread will be started in just a bit. This thread will be closing.

Tricia