For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[missy1974]

Here is the direct link to the challenge

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1188734373/Final+Avery+100+Questions+7-27.pdf

 

[CoolJ]

here is the direct link to the challenge

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1188734373/final+avery+100+questions+7-27.pdf

limaes?, ranch?, madeleine?

 

[RANCH]

'Making a Murderer' Lawyer Admits He Was Ineffective In Steven Avery Trial, New Attorney Says Teresa Halbach 'Was Victim of Sexual Violence'

In a signed affidavit filed to a Manitowoc County court Thursday, and obtained by Newsweek, Strang said he was ineffective because he did not consider using a blood splatter expert and a ballistics expert to disprove some of the state’s theories tying Avery to Halbach’s death.

I brought up the idea that Steven Avery should have used ineffective assistance of counsel early in his appeal. I was told by members here that it wasn't possible because of Strickland. I was also told that they did a good job with the resourses that they had.

I'm now vinticated with the words of Strang admitting that they did a poor job. Personaly I feel they missed more than what Strang admitted to. JMO


http://www.newsweek.com/making-murd...was-ineffective-steven-avery-trial-new-714579

 

[dexter75]

'Making a Murderer' Lawyer Admits He Was Ineffective In Steven Avery Trial, New Attorney Says Teresa Halbach 'Was Victim of Sexual Violence'




I brought up the idea that Steven Avery should have used ineffective assistance of counsel early in his appeal. I was told by members here that it wasn't possible because of Strickland. I was also told that they did a good job with the resourses that they had.

I'm now vinticated with the words of Strang admitting that they did a poor job. Personaly I feel they missed more than what Strang admitted to. JMO


http://www.newsweek.com/making-murd...was-ineffective-steven-avery-trial-new-714579

Congratulations on your being vindicated! I think many of us are finding that this is the case as Zellner moves forward[emoji4]
JMO of course

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[CoolJ]

'Making a Murderer' Lawyer Admits He Was Ineffective In Steven Avery Trial, New Attorney Says Teresa Halbach 'Was Victim of Sexual Violence'




I brought up the idea that Steven Avery should have used ineffective assistance of counsel early in his appeal. I was told by members here that it wasn't possible because of Strickland. I was also told that they did a good job with the resourses that they had.

I'm now vinticated with the words of Strang admitting that they did a poor job. Personaly I feel they missed more than what Strang admitted to. JMO


http://www.newsweek.com/making-murd...was-ineffective-steven-avery-trial-new-714579

When in the appeal did you bring up that idea. Before Zellner? Ineffective assistance of council has always been part of her argument.
Are you starting to lean to the other side of the fence RANCH?

 

[dexter75]

As my husband and I sit here and discuss how pathetic this entire process has been, how LONG it's taken for the obvious ( in our minds ) truth to start to unravel, we reflect back on the end of MAM..
FWIW, Buting and Strang said time and again, even stating at the end of the series how SAD it was for Steve that he had run out of resources. I can't say for sure what they meant by saying/discussing that but I will say this..
I think it's absolutely SICK that Steve Avery allocated hundreds of thousands of dollars to a defense that pretty much got him no where! At the time, most of the world thought he had it pretty darn good with Buting and Strang, ( myself included ) which looking back, and knowing what we know now.. pathetic!!
As my husband and I sit here and discuss how pathetic this entire process has been, we can't help but to think about how in America, I don't know if it's the Wisconsin Judicial System or if it's being an Avery, but in America, hundreds of thousands of dollars might not get you very far should you be convicted of a crime.
My husband and I were always under the impression " money talks " until THIS case.
Even if Zellner frees SA... And I'm confident she will, I've never been more AWARE than I am NOW, of just how flawed, of how broken & biased our system truly is.
Obviously JMO

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[RANCH]

As my husband and I sit here and discuss how pathetic this entire process has been, how LONG it's taken for the obvious ( in our minds ) truth to start to unravel, we reflect back on the end of MAM..
FWIW, Buting and Strang said time and again, even stating at the end of the series how SAD it was for Steve that he had run out of resources. I can't say for sure what they meant by saying/discussing that but I will say this..
I think it's absolutely SICK that Steve Avery allocated hundreds of thousands of dollars to a defense that pretty much got him no where! At the time, most of the world thought he had it pretty darn good with Buting and Strang, ( myself included ) which looking back, and knowing what we know now.. pathetic!!
As my husband and I sit here and discuss how pathetic this entire process has been, we can't help but to think about how in America, I don't know if it's the Wisconsin Judicial System or if it's being an Avery, but in America, hundreds of thousands of dollars might not get you very far should you be convicted of a crime.
My husband and I were always under the impression " money talks " until THIS case.
Even if Zellner frees SA... And I'm confident she will, I've never been more AWARE than I am NOW, of just how flawed, of how broken & biased our system truly is.
Obviously JMO

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BBM

Your comment shows how our system of justice is not flawed or broken. When presented with solid evidence a jury of his peers found Steven Avery guilty. His appeals have so far failed. It shows us that money can't always buy a murderer freedom. JMO

 

[dexter75]

BBM

Your comment shows how our system of justice is not flawed or broken. When presented with solid evidence a jury of his peers found Steven Avery guilty. His appeals have so far failed. It shows us that money can't always buy a murderer freedom. JMO

I absolutely agree with you, RANCH, money can't buy freedom.
As far as " solid evidence " goes..
Show me solid evidence of a competent investigation, unbiased and honest policework, a confession not coerced & then some.
Joyce Brown, Raymond Towler, Thomas Thompson, Earl Washington Jr. Ryan Ferguson, Earl Truvia, Gregory Bright..
I could go on and on with folks who were wrongly convicted & MANY exonerated because of DNA evidence, prosecutors withheld evidence, coerced/false confessions and other factors.
IMO our system is flawed.
There are MANY cases where the prosecution or police, judge or even member(s) of a jury, have acted as if they were above the law.
Hell, in this VERY case, the DEFENSE, who was FOR the ACCUSED, acted as if he were above the law.
If the way LK " defended " BD from the word GO isn't evidence enough of a flawed system, Idk what is.
JMO


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Edited to add
LK defending BD is one example of how I feel we have a flawed system. I do realize this is the Steven Avery thread so if you'd like me to give a " Avery " reason, I'd be happy to do that. I apologize for blending the 2 cases together.
Incase that offended anyone

 

[RANCH]

I absolutely agree with you, RANCH, money can't buy freedom.
As far as " solid evidence " goes..
Show me solid evidence of a competent investigation, unbiased and honest policework, a confession not coerced & then some.
Joyce Brown, Raymond Towler, Thomas Thompson, Earl Washington Jr. Ryan Ferguson, Earl Truvia, Gregory Bright..
I could go on and on with folks who were wrongly convicted & MANY exonerated because of DNA evidence, prosecutors withheld evidence, coerced/false confessions and other factors.
IMO our system is flawed.
There are MANY cases where the prosecution or police, judge or even member(s) of a jury, have acted as if they were above the law.
Hell, in this VERY case, the DEFENSE, who was FOR the ACCUSED, acted as if he were above the law.
If the way LK " defended " BD from the word GO isn't evidence enough of a flawed system, Idk what is.
JMO


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Edited to add
LK defending BD is one example of how I feel we have a flawed system. I do realize this is the Steven Avery thread so if you'd like me to give a " Avery " reason, I'd be happy to do that. I apologize for blending the 2 cases together.
Incase that offended anyone

I'm not about to debate that there is never cases where people have been wrongly convicted. I'm just not sure that it happened in this case.

It's off topic to talk about the US justice system being "flawed" but personally I think it's the best system around.

The ALL CAPS yelling that you use in your post is upsetting to me. For some reason Steven Avery defenders try to intimidate other members with shouts and challenges.

I don't care for that at all.

 

[dexter75]

I'm not about to debate that there is never cases where people have been wrongly convicted. I'm just not sure that it happened in this case.

It's off topic to talk about the US justice system being "flawed" but personally I think it's the best system around.

The ALL CAPS yelling that you use in your post is upsetting to me. For some reason Steven Avery defenders try to intimidate other members with shouts and challenges.

I don't care for that at all.

You said my comment
showed how our justice system wasn't flawed or broken, I was just trying to explain where I was coming from. Stating my opinion/POV & a bit of information as to WHY I feel the way I do is all.
I agree with you, it's the best there is.
I am not yelling when all caps show up, I'm sorry capital letters in my sentences are offensive. My phone, has certain words stored that I have put in caps to put emphasis on said words. ( Be it my everyday conversations, here, FB, etc. ) Said words are NOT at all ment to yell at anyone.
Personal attacks are against WS rules and I try extremely hard to word each post accordingly.
Enjoy your day/evening


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I am so forgetful, RANCH.
I had seen CoolJ ask a few posts back if you were leaning this way or something similar? Are you maybe rethinking your opinion of the case?
Obviously you owe me no answer, I was just curious being the title of the thread was For those who do not think Avery was framed[emoji4]
In any case, it's good to hear from you.

 

[RANCH]

You said my comment
showed how our justice system wasn't flawed or broken, I was just trying to explain where I was coming from. Stating my opinion/POV & a bit of information as to WHY I feel the way I do is all.
I agree with you, it's the best there is.
I am not yelling when all caps show up, I'm sorry capital letters in my sentences are offensive. My phone, has certain words stored that I have put in caps to put emphasis on said words. ( Be it my everyday conversations, here, FB, etc. ) Said words are NOT at all ment to yell at anyone.
Personal attacks are against WS rules and I try extremely hard to word each post accordingly.
Enjoy your day/evening


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
I am so forgetful, RANCH.
I had seen CoolJ ask a few posts back if you were leaning this way or something similar? Are you maybe rethinking your opinion of the case?
Obviously you owe me no answer, I was just curious being the title of the thread was For those who do not think Avery was framed[emoji4]
In any case, it's good to hear from you.

I'm not posting off topic.

I'm not sure how your phone works but it posted the word "for" and the word "THIS" in post #686 and in post #688 your phone posted the word "FOR" and the word "this."

Don't play games with me please.

 

[ACJL]

I think B&S did a pretty good job. MaM doesn't give the viewer a proper glimpse of how the trials actually went. It left out a lot of things. According to Griesbach's books, for example, the defense was rather "quiet" during the trial and had few witnesses. From watching MaM you don't get that impression at all.

 

[Limaes]

2 yrs after MaM and they're both still in prison and their chances of getting out are even slimmer. Perhaps when Dassey is up for parole he will finally show some remorse and tell the truth.

 

[ACJL]

2 yrs after MaM and they're both still in prison and their chances of getting out are even slimmer. Perhaps when Dassey is up for parole he will finally show some remorse and tell the truth.

I've been thinking about that as well... what if he gets out, what will he say?

 

[Limaes]

That he did it and was sorry. Not expecting a detailed account.

 

[ACJL]

That he did it and was sorry. Not expecting a detailed account.

So you think he raped her and stabbed her? I was thinking he may have done something because Steven forced him to do it, or at least, he felt forced by him. Then again, if that was the truth, he probably would've said so by now.

 

[Limaes]

Dassey told so many lies during all of his interviews. One thing that he was consistent with is that Steven Avery plunged a knife into the poor girl. He changed scenarios of when and where it happened e.g while she was clothed then he said unclothed but what didn't change was that Avery stabbed her and the location on the body. He described the weapon as a "nice knife" which, at the very least, puts him there at the time and he knows damn well what knife was used.

 

[Springrain]

I have an unpopular opinion. I think that some evidence was planted. Not all, but some. I think the whole case was terribly mishandled and that it was just a giant circus.
I am also 110% sure that Steven Avery killed Teresa, and I don't feel one bit bad for him, and I think he's where he belongs. I truly do strongly believe that he was a sex criminal well on his way to becoming a serial murderer and rapist. So I guess I'm of two minds on this.