CA - Stephon Clark, 22, unarmed, fatally shot by Sacramento police, 18 March 2018

[katydid23]

Does it explain an execution?

I don't see it as an execution.

I see a troubled young man, running through back yards at night, for nefarious purposes. Then he was being tracked by the helicopter and the searchlight. And instead of just stopping and following directions when the cops first appeared, he escalated the situation by running, and refusing to follow instructions.

He is the one that escalated this. And putting his hands into his pocket and pulling out something is a deadly mistake on his part. The cops have every reason to be concerned that he might have a gun, considering what was happening for the past several minutes.

Plenty of cops have been shot in scenarios just like this.

It is very sad that he lost his young life. But you take your life into your own hands if you are running around hopping neighbors fences late at night, and breaking sliding glass doors open. His poor choices led to his tragic death, in my opinion.

 

[Strangeworld]

I don't see it as an execution.

I see a troubled young man, running through back yards at night, for nefarious purposes. Then he was being tracked by the helicopter and the searchlight. And instead of just stopping and following directions when the cops first appeared, he escalated the situation by running, and refusing to follow instructions.

He is the one that escalated this. And putting his hands into his pocket and pulling out something is a deadly mistake on his part. The cops have every reason to be concerned that he might have a gun, considering what was happening for the past several minutes.

Plenty of cops have been shot in scenarios just like this.

It is very sad that he lost his young life. But you take your life into your own hands if you are running around hopping neighbors fences late at night, and breaking sliding glass doors open. His poor choices led to his tragic death, in my opinion.

I agree totally.
BBM - and this is the tragedy of this situation - reaching for a phone led to his death, but if he'd been reaching for a gun we could be talking about the death of a police officer.

 

[MaryG12]

It is very sad that he lost his young life. But you take your life into your own hands if you are running around hopping neighbors fences late at night, and breaking sliding glass doors open. His poor choices led to his tragic death, in my opinion.

RSBM

Appearances are everything, in cases like this, as well as perception.

My father, a former state policeman, used to tell me this non-stop, and why it is so important for a citizen to behave in a certain way when a policeman is around, to always comply, do not under any circumstances act guilty (like Clark did), maybe most importantly, to be very mindful of your actions around LE. Make the wrong move, risk getting shot by LE.

Quick question, where were Clark's children at the time this happened?

 

[katydid23]

Many articles just say he was in his grandparents backyard when shot.

Just like the title of this thread. I think it is slanted and somewhat dishonest to phrase it in that way. As if he was just chilling in Grama's back yard, talking on his cell, and cops come out of nowhere and shoot him.

No mention that he was chased to the back yard, as he was running from the cops, who were directed to him by the LE Helicopter overhead, WHO HAD JUST WITNESSED HIM breaking a sliding glass door open in neighbors yard.

Very different scenario from 'unarmed choir boy playing FarmVille in Grama's yard, ambushed by cops.'

 

[RANCH]

It depends on the state. In some states if he entered a home he didn't even need to put his hand in his pocket, because of stand your ground laws. Ca doesn't have such law.

California Self Defense Laws

California is not a stand your ground state, but does recognize the "castle doctrine," which applies to one's home, place of business, or other real property. Similarly, an individual using deadly force to protect his or her property has no duty to retreat. But castle doctrine rights end when an individual is no longer on his or her real property. As a general rule of thumb, any force used against an intruder must be proportionate to the harm reasonably feared.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-self-defense-laws.html

 

[RANCH]

Here is a link to the Sheriff's Department helicopter video Stephon Clark is clearly seen in the neighbors backyard before jumping the fence into his grandparents backyard. Why was he in the neighbors backyard?

This police shooting happened close to were I live. About a mile away.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-fatal-police-shooting-footage-20180322-story.html

 

[bears10]

The link gives an oops - common with many of your links.

At the moment I think you're making stuff up.

The link works for me. She isn’t making up links. [emoji17]

 

[RANCH]

California police fired 20 times at black man fatally shot while holding a cellphone

The airborne deputies said they saw the man use the "tool bar" to break a window, which police later said was the rear sliding glass door in an occupied home on the 7500 block of 29th Street.

​

Police said that after seeing Clark break Wong's window, the helicopter deputies observed him running south, where he jumped a fence into his grandparents' yard adjacent to Wong's house. He headed toward the front of the property, along the way looking into another car, police said.

We don't have video to corroborate the account given by the airborne deputies but I doubt they lied or are mistaken. We know that Clark was in the backyard adjacent to his grandparents and that the sliding glass door was broken.

As far as we know nothing was stolen that night. Why was Clark or someone else breaking windows to cars and a home?

If Clark was just trying to knock on the backyard window so someone would open the garage door why did he head towards the front yard after jumping the backyard fence?

Why did he then run when confronted by the police? Consciousness of guilt?

Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/nation-world/national/article206190244.html#storylink=cpy
​

 

[CoolJ]

The deputies in the sheriff helicopter tracked him from the other homes nearby and saw him jumping over his grandmothers backyard fence.

So he didn't innocently walk outside from the home after hearing the helicopter.

He was running around in neighbors back yards , hopping fences, and he was standing in driveways, late at night.

Why would he be doing so?

When I was a kid we used to hop fences in backyards when we were up to no good. We were afraid of the cops. But the idea of being shot by a cop wasn’t even on our radar.
So, my thing is, it doesn’t matter what he was doing in the backyard. If he was trespassing, you give him a citation for trespassing, if he was breaking into homes, you arrest him. It ain’t rocket science folks. American cops need a lesson in compassion and the sanctity of life. Enough of this trigger happy crap.

 

[K_Z]

For informational purposes, there are a number of small pistols and derringers that closely resemble cell phones-- particularly in the dark when held in a hand.

Police are quite aware of these smaller pistols. Even "standard shape" pistols are becoming quite small; many .380 ACP's can hold 5-7 rounds, and be completely concealed in an average sized palm. Police have to be alert to anything reached for, or held in a hand and waved around, when they are engaging with criminal suspects.

The Taurus Curve is one, and the Ideal Conceal Cellphone Pistol is another (though the IC is not in wide distribution yet-- some on the pre order list have received the product.) Another is the Trailblazer Lifecard. Here's a few links and videos. There are a number of others, but you get the idea.

https://www.taurususa.com/whats-new-the-curve.cfm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEoM_55iCf0

https://www.idealconceal.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWCdLaIlJ94

http://www.guns.com/2017/08/02/trai...olding-lifecard-22-single-shot-pistol-photos/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4JcZc6PsI

It's too bad this young man made all of the very bad choices and very bad decisions he did. The continuing dangerous choices he made left police no choice but to assume he was about to use a gun.

That was a REASONABLE assumption by LEOs, given the circumstances, IMO.

His own behavior directly led to his death at the hands of police, IMO. He continuously chose to escalate the situation, and cause them to reasonably fear that he had a weapon he was about to use.

Had he cooperated at all, he'd still be alive and taken into custody.

I don't think police should face any charges at all in this case.

 

[katydid23]

When I was a kid we used to hop fences in backyards when we were up to no good. We were afraid of the cops. But the idea of being shot by a cop wasn’t even on our radar.
So, my thing is, it doesn’t matter what he was doing in the backyard. If he was trespassing, you give him a citation for trespassing, if he was breaking into homes, you arrest him. It ain’t rocket science folks. American cops need a lesson in compassion and the sanctity of life. Enough of this trigger happy crap.

When you were hopping fences, you had no idea that a cop was going to shoot you.

And the cops had no idea that YOU were going to shoot them either.

But that is where we are at now. Young people are shooting cops and cops are responding in kind.

And that is where this whole thing breaks down. The cops would have loved to have given him a citation for trespassing. That would have been the best outcome.

But this young man ran from them, made it impossible for them to give him a citation or to search him for weapons, for everyone's safety.

You say it ain't rocket science, but it is pretty complicated. As long as there are gang members routinely pulling weapons out of their waistbands and shooting cops during traffic stops, there are going to be shootings like this happening.

You say the cops need lessons in compassion---Urban youth need lessons in compassion and sanctity of life as well. As long as they are as trigger happy and cold blooded as the murder rates indicate, cops are going to be quick to respond with lethal force.

 

[RANCH]

When you were hopping fences, you had no idea that a cop was going to shoot you.

And the cops had no idea that YOU were going to shoot them either.

But that is where we are at now. Young people are shooting cops and cops are responding in kind.

And that is where this whole thing breaks down. The cops would have loved to have given him a citation for trespassing. That would have been the best outcome.

But this young man ran from them, made it impossible for them to give him a citation or to search him for weapons, for everyone's safety.

You say it ain't rocket science, but it is pretty complicated. As long as there are gang members routinely pulling weapons out of their waistbands and shooting cops during traffic stops, there are going to be shootings like this happening.

You say the cops need lessons in compassion---Urban youth need lessons in compassion and sanctity of life as well. As long as they are as trigger happy and cold blooded as the murder rates indicate, cops are going to be quick to respond with lethal force.

The Meadowview area of South Sacramento has serious gang problems. This is the neighborhood that this police shooting took place.

Sacramento gang crackdown brings 29 arrests, 211 seized guns

The sweep was organized by city, county and federal law enforcement agencies after a deadly shooting at Meadowview Park in August. One person was killed and four people were injured when shots were fired as group of people recorded a music video.
The south Sacramento shooting was part of a two-year feud between rival gangs that brought other shootings, attempted murders and slayings.

http://www.kcra.com/article/sacrame...t-stems-from-deadly-shooting-at-park/14475142

 

[Rocky1]

For those who say that this shooting was justified, because "in this day and age cops should be able to always go home to their families", maybe Firemen shouldn't respond to house fires because they may not make it home either? Or maybe cops should shoot everyone that they pull over for a traffic infraction because that way, they will be sure to make it home at night? If Cops are running that scared, maybe they should find another profession. There is way too much of this nonsense going on, I don't care what color you are.

Time stamp @11.30. "He came out, hands out and approached us, and then fell down". Ask yourself something. If you were running from the Cops, would you take the time to reach in your pocket to pull out your phone? What was he going to do, make a phone call? Why would anyone hold their cell phone out, as if it was a gun and point it towards a Cop?
This Cop was trying to justify this shooting before he even checked the guy for a pulse, imo.

Time stamp @13.30. The cover up begins At this point. It is clear that someone is, or about to say that this guy didn't have a gun. You can clearly hear this Cop say "Shhh Shh".

Time stamp @14.42. You can see the cops hand reaching up and shutting off the audio on his Body Cam. Why would he be doing this, if this shooting is so justifiable?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/...shooting-video

 

[katydid23]

For those who say that this shooting was justified, because "in this day and age cops should be able to always go home to their families", maybe Firemen shouldn't respond to house fires because they may not make it home either? Or maybe cops should shoot everyone that they pull over for a traffic infraction because that way, they will be sure to make it home at night? If Cops are running that scared, maybe they should find another profession. There is way too much of this nonsense going on, I don't care what color you are.

Time stamp @11.30. "He came out, hands out and approached us, and then fell down". Ask yourself something. If you were running from the Cops, would you take the time to reach in your pocket to pull out your phone? What was he going to do, make a phone call? Why would anyone hold their cell phone out, as if it was a gun and point it towards a Cop?
This Cop was trying to justify this shooting before he even checked the guy for a pulse, imo.

Time stamp @13.30. The cover up begins At this point. It is clear that someone is, or about to say that this guy didn't have a gun. You can clearly hear this Cop say "Shhh Shh".

Time stamp @14.42. You can see the cops hand reaching up and shutting off the audio on his Body Cam. Why would he be doing this, if this shooting is so justifiable?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/...shooting-video

If a fire is deemed too dangerous, fire captains will call the team away from the fire and let it burn out. They will just concentrate on the neighboring properties to prevent it from catching fire too.

Cops don't always have that luxury. If someone seems too dangerous they cannot just turn and walk away,once they have already engaged in the confrontation.

I don't think the cops are running scared. I think they are being trained in highly detailed defensive tactics. And it is tragic when these maneuvers leave an unarmed subject wounded or killed. The situation is usually escalated by the suspect though. They run or engage in a physical fight instead of just being detained and searched and questioned.

He was not running from the cops when he reached for his phone. He had already begun to confront them face to face at that time.

You said that no one would ever point their cell phone at a cop pointing his weapon at them. But I know of a couple of instances where that is what happened. One recent example happened in El cajon, Cali---and it was a suicide by cop situation. guy pointed an e-cig tube at the cops, like it was a gun...http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ht-protests-el-cajon-20160930-snap-story.html

yes, I agree that they shouldn't have turned off their audio. obviously they were worried once they saw there was no gun. but that doesn't mean it was not a justified shooting. it means it was a major tragedy.

 

[Rocky1]

If a fire is deemed too dangerous, fire captains will call the team away from the fire and let it burn out. They will just concentrate on the neighboring properties to prevent it from catching fire too.

Cops don't always have that luxury. If someone seems too dangerous they cannot just turn and walk away,once they have already engaged in the confrontation.

I don't think the cops are running scared. I think they are being trained in highly detailed defensive tactics. And it is tragic when these maneuvers leave an unarmed subject wounded or killed. The situation is usually escalated by the suspect though. They run or engage in a physical fight instead of just being detained and searched and questioned.

He was not running from the cops when he reached for his phone. He had already begun to confront them face to face at that time.

You said that no one would ever point their cell phone at a cop pointing his weapon at them. But I know of a couple of instances where that is what happened. One recent example happened in El cajon, Cali---and it was a suicide by cop situation. guy pointed an e-cig tube at the cops, like it was a gun...http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ht-protests-el-cajon-20160930-snap-story.html

yes, I agree that they shouldn't have turned off their audio. obviously they were worried once they saw there was no gun. but that doesn't mean it was not a justified shooting. it means it was a major tragedy.

Snipped:
yes, I agree that they shouldn't have turned off their audio. obviously they were worried once they saw there was no gun. but that doesn't mean it was not a justified shooting. it means it was a major tragedy

Yes, a major tragedy along with a clear attempt to cover it up, along with his fellow Cop telling him to "shut off your light" @timestamp 13:45 after showing this dead man laying on the ground unarmed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this Cop meant to shoot this unarmed guy, however he did, and but for his actions, this guy would still be alive today. Maybe an "E cig" could be mistaken for a gun, but how would someone mistake a flat cell phone for a gun? I think he saw the reflection of his phone due to the light, and open up on him before making the assessment.
What's done is done, but, what do you (or anyone else) think should happen to this Cop? The usuall.. paid leave and "more training"?
I'd love to hear some thoughts!

 

[K_Z]

Police cannot "assume" something in an uncooperative, criminal suspect's hand that is flat and rectangular, is a cell phone.

 

[K_Z]

 

[katydid23]

Snipped:
yes, I agree that they shouldn't have turned off their audio. obviously they were worried once they saw there was no gun. but that doesn't mean it was not a justified shooting. it means it was a major tragedy

Yes, a major tragedy along with a clear attempt to cover it up, along with his fellow Cop telling him to "shut off your light" @timestamp 13:45 after showing this dead man laying on the ground unarmed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this Cop meant to shoot this unarmed guy, however he did, and but for his actions, this guy would still be alive today. Maybe an "E cig" could be mistaken for a gun, but how would someone mistake a flat cell phone for a gun? I think he saw the reflection of his phone due to the light, and open up on him before making the assessment.
What's done is done, but, what do you (or anyone else) think should happen to this Cop? The usuall.. paid leave and "more training"?
I'd love to hear some thoughts!

"Don't get me wrong, I don't think this Cop meant to shoot this unarmed guy, however he did, and but for his actions, this guy would still be alive today."


Right, and but for the victim's actions, he would still be alive today. He made a lot of poor choices that night, which led to his death. Many poor choices.

He was likely up to no good that night as he ran through the neighbors yards and hopped fences. He also had a few chances to surrender to the cops, and avoid the confrontation at gunpoint. So he made several very poor choices, as he ran through the streets, in the hours before this tragedy.

The cop, on the other hand, was out on the streets for a much different purpose. He was dispatched to that street because neighbors called to report some crimes. And so the cop was trying to help others that night.

In the dangerous process, of providing that help, he was forced into a confrontation by a suspect, who refused to comply to demands, and who tried to flee. And then that suspect approached the officers as he reached into his pocket.

So who is at fault here?

The cop was there for the right reasons, as far as I can see. He was called to the scene by neighbors and was directed by the helicopter. He had a purpose and a job to do.

The suspect was not there , hopping fences that night, for any 'noble' reason, as far as I can see. I think he was committing some petty crimes and trying to flee from arrest.

So if we are looking at who is to' blame' , at this point, I say the young man, because he made the poor choices creating this confrontation. The cop was reacting to the situation created by this young man.


You ask what should happen to the officer. I think that he was doing his job, and WAS FORCED by this suspect, to make a quick, split second decision. It could have gone either way.

The officer had no idea if this guy had a gun or not. But he was walking towards the officers, and when he put his hand in his pocket, in that split second, the officer pulled the trigger.

He had to decide, and to GUESS REALLY, if he was about to get shot by this suspect. It is a gamble for the officer to make that decision. Don't shoot, and he might take a bullet to the head. Shoot, and he might save himself as the perp pulls out his gun. OR, shoot, and find out he was unarmed, and then face the emotional burdens and legal consequences soon to follow.

It is a very hard choice that officer WAS FORCED TO MAKE. The suspect forced the issue. He didn't need to. He could have just surrendered at many points earlier in the night.

I am not sure what 'more training' would do, in a situation where the suspect approaches cops who are pointing their weapons at him.

 

[MaryG12]

Thank you for posting those images, K_Z, I learned something new.

 

[K_Z]

Thank you for posting those images, K_Z, I learned something new.

The dishonest media also keeps emphasizing that the cell phone Clark had is white, as if to imply there are no "white" guns.









One can easily search "white pistols" for more images.