CA - Stephon Clark, 22, unarmed, fatally shot by Sacramento police, 18 March 2018

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2Hope4 said:
Have you ever been in a high adrenaline situation? I haven't in a shooting. I did kill a copperhead snake that was coiled to strike my Mom. Instead of chopping off it's head, or striking hard enough to kill in one strike, I hit that snake so many times that it was in 1'' pieces before I stopped. I didn't mean to. Can't explain how or why I couldn't stop. But I didn't until the hoe was removed from my hands, and then I was shaking so hard I don't know how I was even holding the hoe to begin with.

I took a concealed carry class in VA. Our instructor said to unload the gun if your life is in danger. Don't shoot once, wait and risk being shot yourself. Unload your gun. I think it's probably an action that at that moment you aren't thinking how many shots, you shoot until you can't.

Everyone knows a gun shot can be fatal. When used in self defense, you hope it will be fatal, because usually if a suspect is injured, their self defense is going to kick in and they are going to shoot until they empty their gun as well. A split second difference in reaction time can determine who lives.

I know there are shootings that are murder. There's unjustified shootings. This case I think there was reason to believe the shooting was the correct action. The suspect didn't put his hands up, or lay on the ground, or whatever the command was.
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He wasn't told to put his hands up or lay on the ground. He was told to show his hands and his hands were showing.
 
Rocky1 said:
I think you misread my question. What I said was,"Although I agree the media is dishonest, how were they dishonest in this case"?
If they reported the cell phone being white, they were right. It was white.

Which part of what SC was doing justified the shooting?. Trying to flee the cops?
According to the Supreme Court (Tennessee V Garner), Cops can not shoot you for trying to flee.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/471/1.html

The cops said that SC had his arms out towards him, however if you look at this video @ timestamp .32 you can see his elbows are almost at his waistline and his hands are down by his belt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0mCV3vMQ8
The cop never once said, "put your hands up", or "stop". What he said is "show me your hands". If this guys hands were not in his pockets (which they weren't), then he was showing his hands.
I agree he shouldn't have started walking towards the cops, but obviously he wasn't trying to shoot them. What reason would he be walking towards the cops for? To stab them with his cell phone? Has it crossed your mind that maybe he was just surrendering?
The dog walking example is not a false equivalency. If in your words "Context is everything". then maybe you can explain how a 12 year old boy gets shot for carrying a fake gun in a park. Was that justifiable too?
I understand you don't think these cops should be charged, or punished and most Juries think the same way no matter the circumstances involved when it comes to cops shooting people. It appears you have made up your mind before the investigation is even completed.
I agree, It's fine to protest, however, when it resorts to damage of property is crossing the line.
I don't think you answered the question. "What have these cops and these families lost? They are on administrative leave with full pay, while this guys family is paying for his funeral for being shot while unarmed.
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Interesting because in that same video you posted, in the first 23 seconds of the video, multiple times I heard "STOP!" "STOP!" "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!" "STOP!"....
 
2Hope4 said:
???? What does that shooting have to do with this case? Oh that's right, NOTHING. Different situation altogether.
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She had a cellphone and was shot. What is the difference?
 
in my opinion stephon clark was holding up his cellphone in order to record a video of the police because he was afraid he would be shot. You can see the white back of his iphone as hes holding it up to record them just before he's shot. Way too many unarmed black kids have been shot by cowards, so wanting to record the police pointing guns at you in your own backyard is completely reasonable. More reasonable then those two little whimpy cowards believing a white iphone was gonna kill them lol.

Clark may not have been breaking any windows, police conveniently didn't include that in the footage they released. People cut through their neighbors backyards all the time. Even if he hadn't ran from the police and stopped when they first saw him they still could have shot him for holding a cellphone. People don't follow directions under pressure and to be honest if I see an idiot cop with a gun chasing me I'm running, these fools shoot way too many unarmed people following instructions like this video in the hotel hallway.

This isn't a race problem, it's a police problem. We need to take the power away from the police.
 
2Hope4 said:
Have you ever been in a high adrenaline situation? I haven't in a shooting. I did kill a copperhead snake that was coiled to strike my Mom. Instead of chopping off it's head, or striking hard enough to kill in one strike, I hit that snake so many times that it was in 1'' pieces before I stopped. I didn't mean to. Can't explain how or why I couldn't stop. But I didn't until the hoe was removed from my hands, and then I was shaking so hard I don't know how I was even holding the hoe to begin with.

I took a concealed carry class in VA. Our instructor said to unload the gun if your life is in danger. Don't shoot once, wait and risk being shot yourself. Unload your gun. I think it's probably an action that at that moment you aren't thinking how many shots, you shoot until you can't.

Everyone knows a gun shot can be fatal. When used in self defense, you hope it will be fatal, because usually if a suspect is injured, their self defense is going to kick in and they are going to shoot until they empty their gun as well. A split second difference in reaction time can determine who lives.

I know there are shootings that are murder. There's unjustified shootings. This case I think there was reason to believe the shooting was the correct action. The suspect didn't put his hands up, or lay on the ground, or whatever the command was.
Click to expand...
I understand your point about being jacked up on adrenaline.Cops are trained to kill, not wound, that way they can be sure there is no longer a threat. They are not going to take the time to shoot someone in the leg and take a chance that they won't be injured/killed themselves.
I understand what you are saying, but would you agree that 15 rounds being put into this guy, after he was down and not moving was a little excessive?
Those cops were out of control IMO at that moment. Why? Maybe because of all the cop shootings lately? Maybe because that is a high crime neighborhood? Who knows, but as I said in my first post, If a cop is that paranoid where they are going to just shoot people because they won't take the time to access the situation, (and clearly in this case they didn't. They didn't even take the time to look to see what was behind them before they started shooting) then they should find another profession.

Imo I already know the excuse they will use for shooting so many rounds. it will go something like this. "I feared my life was in danger, and I shot enough rounds until in my mind, I no longer felt threatened". That's the "go to" excuse every time, word for word, and this time will be no different. Then the PIO will make his statement how "they will provide more training to make sure this type of thing never happens again".
Once again, unless we are looking at two different videos, he followed every command that he was given. he was never told to "put his hands up, or to lay on the ground".
There are some that think this cop did nothing wrong, and cops don't need to be trained differently. I beg to differ. There are way too many of these unarmed/unjustifiable shootings taking place imo. It's amazes me why some have a hard time trying to figure out why there is such a disconnect between cops and citizens.
Here's a breakdown of how cops are trained, and how most of their training is on the use of their weapon.
https://splinternews.com/everything-thats-wrong-with-police-training-in-one-char-1793850106
 
katydid23 said:
The deputies in the sheriff helicopter tracked him from the other homes nearby and saw him jumping over his grandmothers backyard fence.

So he didn't innocently walk outside from the home after hearing the helicopter.

He was running around in neighbors back yards , hopping fences, and he was standing in driveways, late at night.

Why would he be doing so?
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Why is a good question. But we will probably never know because yet again police decided to kill first and ask questions later.
 
People saying these cops did nothing wrong makes me just as sick as watching all those "officers" cower for 10 minutes behind the wall from the unarmed dead person they just killed.
 
2Hope4 said:
Interesting because in that same video you posted, in the first 23 seconds of the video, multiple times I heard "STOP!" "STOP!" "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!" "STOP!"....
Click to expand...
Yes, and out of those 23 seconds, the first 3 (timestamp.55-58) the cop is telling him to stop and let me see your hands. The next command is at 1.10 where the cop is out of control repeating the same commands this guy has already followed. Stop and let me see your hands.
It's not like he continues yelling the entire 23 seconds, and this guy is sill running. He has stopped running by the .59 timestamp. In your opinion, is 4 seconds too long to bring yourself from a running position to a stop?
 
Orville Butch said:
in my opinion stephon clark was holding up his cellphone in order to record a video of the police because he was afraid he would be shot. You can see the white back of his iphone as hes holding it up to record them just before he's shot. Way too many unarmed black kids have been shot by cowards, so wanting to record the police pointing guns at you in your own backyard is completely reasonable. More reasonable then those two little whimpy cowards believing a white iphone was gonna kill them lol.

Clark may not have been breaking any windows, police conveniently didn't include that in the footage they released. People cut through their neighbors backyards all the time. Even if he hadn't ran from the police and stopped when they first saw him they still could have shot him for holding a cellphone. People don't follow directions under pressure and to be honest if I see an idiot cop with a gun chasing me I'm running, these fools shoot way too many unarmed people following instructions like this video in the hotel hallway.

This isn't a race problem, it's a police problem. We need to take the power away from the police.
Click to expand...
Good point about the cell phone.
I can't say if this guy was breaking windows or not, but if you look at the video @ timestamp .21, to me, at the speed this guy is scaling the fence and walking, it doesn't look like a man that is running from the cops. The helicopter overhead and the 911 calls tell me he is up to no good. The video clearly shows this was not a man that heard a helicopter overhead and came outside of his Grandmothers house.
Either way. I don't think the punishment fits the crime.
What's next? Someone robbing a bank, the cops shoot everyone inside because "they fear for their lives" and that shooting is justified because the cops weren't really sure who's cell phone was really a gun, or couldn't figure out who the robbers were in under two seconds?
 
I guess jumping fences is now a gd capital crime, too. Anything to justify the murder of a black man by untouchable officers.
 
Tawny said:
I guess jumping fences is now a gd capital crime, too. Anything to justify the murder of a black man by untouchable officers.
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God forbid the police kill a "black" man. Is everyone else fair game? Where is the outrage when a white man or woman is killed? Are blacks "special"?
 
Trident said:
God forbid the police kill a "black" man. Is everyone else fair game? Where is the outrage when a white man or woman is killed? Are blacks "special"?
Click to expand...
Perhaps a history refresher would be helpful.
 
Trident said:
God forbid the police kill a "black" man. Is everyone else fair game? Where is the outrage when a white man or woman is killed? Are blacks "special"?
Click to expand...

Wasn't it reported that one of the LEO's involved was black?
 
Today someone called police because a man was trying to break into cars. Police showed up to track down the culprit, arrest him, and take him to trial. Instead, the suspect shot one of the police officers. Police then killed the suspect.

That is how it works when police are not expecting that the suspect has a gun.
 
bluesneakers said:
Did you see the numbers I posted about officer deaths in Sacramento? It seems like a very safe place to be a police officer.
Click to expand...

Nowhere is safe for a police officer these days. The lunatics are running the asylum, IMO, and have been for several years.
 
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