CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

[ShayHay!]

I think it would be perfectly acceptable for a 16yo. A 6yo isn't going to cook up some story to get treats from a neighbor, a troubled 16yo on the other-hand would, they are capable of more complex thinking.

As for the source of the accident, until I hear something from LE I'm not going to make any assumptions. At this point there are too many variables to explain an accident. As Tricia likes to remind us from time-to-time, lets be careful with our words, family members and outsiders are likely reading here and as we saw in the Lucas Hernandez case many people have no problem stealing the content from this forum and reposting it to other places while twisting the words of the WS poster.

You must hang out with a different crowd of 16-year-olds and 6-year-olds than I do then because a 6-year-old is perfectly capable of concocting such a story.

 

[keeleydoll]

Was it a 2003 GMC extended cab pickup? Or a GMC SUV, like a Suburban? I've only seen '2003 GMC' and 'SUV'.

GMC’s Yukon XL is the same as a Chevy Suburban except that only the Denali models are 4x4 they seat 8. Two up front and then two rows of three seats that flip down and are removable. The Yukon has the same seating arrangement but a shorter backend like a Chevy Tahoe.

“On Monday, a passing motorist called 911 after finding the family’s smashed GMC Yukon SUV shortly after 3:30 p.m. Monday, down such a steep rock face it couldn’t have been seen without standing at the edge of the cliff, Allman said Wednesday.”

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8163127-181/chp-names-2-adults-in

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[tara83]

You must hang out with a different crowd of 16

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Wow. I don’t even know what to say here. It definitely appears very suspicious to me.

And I had no idea about the Willis clan... omg!!

When my brothers and I were younger (early elementary age), we used to go to the babysitter and tell her we hadn’t eaten and we were hungry. My mom says she always fed us but I remember very bare cabinets as a child so it’s possible we were still very hungry.

 

[tara83]

Considering another child in this family said going without food was used as punishment I don't see why people are saying they weren't telling the truth.It's sadly obvious abuse was going on in this family.

 

[snowleopard]

I’m quite familiar with the route I assume they took: I-5 to Grants Pass OR, 199 to the coast, 101 south to where it meets Hiway 1 near Leggett and heads west to the coast. On 101 south of Crescent City (just south of the Oregon border) there’s a stretch that curves through the redwoods high above the ocean. It would have worked well except that stretch of road is somewhat heavily traveled and it’s very slow (10-40 mph). It would be hard to build up enough speed to catapult off the edge between trees. It’s a scary highway IMO and it could have happened there, but highway 1 is a better choice...less traveled, few trees, and they could pick up speed on the the bridge right before they went off the edge. Pretty much the only lighting along these stretches of road is headlights.

So, if this was planned, it was either researched or one of the women had been there before. It is certainly not a “day trip” even for me in Southern Oregon...probably 7 hours, with long stretches on winding two lane highway. I wonder if they spent the night in Eureka.

Has anyone checked what the weather was like along this route on the Friday they left WA, especially near Westport? Bad weather could make the trip much longer than the estimated 10 hours (I’m pretty sure it takes longer than that at best).

A bit o/t but my son and I are from the east coast and took a cross country trip in '15. I remember that stretch of road well. Beautiful area, but twists and turns and some large trees right next to the painted outer line of the road. For some reason Crescent City gave me the heebees.....

 

[K_Z]

The DailyMail.com has also learned that the deceased couple were married in Connecticut on September 1, 2009, Jennifer was listed as the groom and Sarah was listed at the bride.

But according to Minnesota court records Sarah had legally changed her name from Sarah M Gengler to Sarah M Hart, approximately four year prior to their marriage July 2005.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rested-ASSAULTING-daughter.html#ixzz5BC2cBQS3
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Unknown when the first 3 kids were adopted, but articles say they already had 3 kids when Devonte and his 2 sibs were adopted in 2007.

So all of the kids were adopted BEFORE the couple was legally married, which is very confusing and intriguing. I wonder if both of the moms completed the legal adoptions, or only one of them?

The circumstances of the adoptions raise all kind of red flags, IMO. As well as the multiple moves (becoming more isolated with each move), conflict with authorities, isolation, estrangement from the women's families, kids escaping from the homes to ask for help, adjudicated abuse, and the contrast with the eloquent (but improbable, IMO) stories of idyllic family life told online by Jen, and her friends.

Layer over all that adopted kids with previous deep trauma and ongoing special needs, and the women's intense passion for political and social justice causes (with a lot of long distance travel), and this looks very much like the kind of religious child abuse cases we read about-- just with a progressive/ liberal non-traditional family, instead of a conservative, fundamentalist religious family. The abuse pattern is identical, IMO.

I don't think this crash was an accident.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

The Turpins reportedly were angling for a reality tv show.

The Willis Clan, the Duggars, the 5 Browns, the Jackson 5, countless child stars- many families that are hiding extreme abuse are out and about in the public eye.

No one is saying these cases are identical or that this case is "identical" to the Turpins. But I find it quite sad that anyone would be quick to assume the kids in this case were exaggerating their claims of abuse as they pled for help. Especially under the circumstances of this family. Why? What is it about these parents that would cause anyone to believe they didn't do what was alleged and that the poor kids might be lying? Did the kid say, "yeah I'm being starved but please. I only want candy"?

This right here is why many abuse victims suffer in silence.

Regardless, parading your props in public doesn't impress me or make me think they had nothing to hide. Narcissists often do such things. Perhaps those children helped them present a certain picture and/or get accolades and attention at the various events they went to. Here is this progressive LGBTQ family with all these diverse foster kids. They'd be considered downright heroic
champions of certain causes, frankly.

The reality was undoutedly different. Domestic abuse. Losing control spanking an adopted child. Isolation. Calls to CPS.

If I lived near them we would probably run in the same social circles. But that doesn't cloud my ability to see that there was more than likely something terrible going on in that house that led to a horrific end and to not doubt the word of young people begging for help.

Well said. Especially about the narcissism. Narcissists certainly like to impress people but deep inside they are self loathing. When there's no one around to impress, a narcissists true colors come out and they can actually be very mean.

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[SouthernCutie]

How horrible
Prayers for the family.
Why on earth after being found guilty of abuse of the kids were they allowed to pull them out of school and homeschool them? That should make automatic CPS checks monthly or something IMO we are failing to protect children. We have to find a way to do something again red flags were flying for awhile before this happened

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[KaylaraOwl]

Sea Current information.

 

[LL44]

Just putting this out there... the evidence seems stacked against the Harts, however I foster "hard to place kids". I am currently on a break, because it is HARD, heart breaking & unbelievably stressful. But many MANY children with trauma backgrounds have food issues. Our 15 y.o. foster, despite having LOTS of food available anytime he wanted, would binge, steal & hoard. He would pretend to leave for school, then wait til we left for work, then break back into the house to eat leftover bday cake, holiday treats, lunch snacks... all while healthy sandwiches, snacks etc were moulding away in his backpack, locker, under his bed, in his dresser. He had been gone for almost a year & we moved houses... I found half eaten crap hidden in the most bizarre of locations, treat wrappers stuffed in couch cushions, behind picture frames. Trauma manifests in awful ways for kids.

 

[KaaBoom]

Looking at this and Google maps the road does appear to curve ever so slightly to the left (as if you were driving on it). Drawing a straight line from the road off the bridge would put you exactly at the end of the first turnout if you missed the slight curve of the road in, say, the dark. That could be a possibility, since that is where they went off.

The images that have been posted show the car was in the ocean, not in the creek. That would mean that the car went over the edge of the cliff, not off the bridge. The only way I could see this being an accident would be if the driver mistook the gas for the brake. That type of thing usually only happens to senior drivers, not to someone this age.

 

[PetDetective]

The images that have been posted show the car was in the ocean, not in the creek. That would mean that the car went over the edge of the cliff, not off the bridge. The only way I could see this being an accident would be if the driver mistook the gas for the brake. That type of thing usually only happens to senior drivers, not to someone this age.

Or if the driver had a medical emergency. Could have been a heart attack, seizure, stroke, etc.


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[K_Z]

[video=youtube;DbDF5zkjKVI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=107&v=DbDF5zkjKVI[/video]

The DeKalb neighbors. The wife is really broken up. I think they really tried their best to help and encourage the kids, and liked the kids a lot, and the family, but were confused about what was going on next door. This was not a "knee jerk" reaction to call CPS, IMO.

Really heartbreaking to see them talk abut the kids..

 

[KaaBoom]

Or if the driver had a medical emergency. Could have been a heart attack, seizure, stroke, etc.

I don't think so. Not unless it happened at the exact time they were pulling into the viewpoint. Which I think would be highly unlikely. I think that would be right up there with mistaking the gas for the brake. Not typically something that would happen to somebody that age. IMHO.

 

[K_Z]

More detail from the MN abuse situation--it wasn't a "cold bath"-- this says Abigail's HEAD was held under cold water in the bathtub! And the spanking was more like punches with a closed fist. Good grief! And this is from a police report. WHY was this woman allowed to plead to a lesser charge???

In an interview, according to the police report, Abigail told a detective and a social worker her mother Jennifer had grown angry with her the day before because a penny had fallen out of her pocket and onto the floor.

The girl said Jennifer then dragged her into the bathroom and submerged her head under cold water in the bathtub.

Afterward, Abigail said she was "spanked" repeatedly, imitating her mother's hand with a clenched fist.

She was later grounded, a punishment that would sometimes include missed meals, she said.

"When asked what happens when she gets grounded, she stated that she has to stay in her bed and has no lunch," the report reads. "[She] also stated that she had missed lunch this past Saturday."

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/devonte_harts_little_sister_to.html

And again-- it was SARAH that pleaded to the abuse charges. NOT Jennifer.

She said her other mother, Sarah, later saw the bruises and placed an ointment on them.

Abigail added that "mom Jen spanks the most and acts tough when she is upset with the children," according to the police report.

 

[Lilibet]

A bit o/t but my son and I are from the east coast and took a cross country trip in '15. I remember that stretch of road well. Beautiful area, but twists and turns and some large trees right next to the painted outer line of the road. For some reason Crescent City gave me the heebees.....

BBM

OT—I agree about CC. It doesn’t help that maximum security Pelican Bay prison is there either.

 

[Beth11311]

More detail from the MN abuse situation--it wasn't a "cold bath"-- this says Abigail's HEAD was held under cold water in the bathtub! And the spanking was more like punches with a closed fist. Good grief! And this is from a police report. WHY was this woman allowed to plead to a lesser charge???



http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/03/devonte_harts_little_sister_to.html

And again-- it was SARAH that pleaded to the abuse charges. NOT Jennifer.

This is just beyond heartbreaking to read. That poor baby, and those poor sweet kids.

Being from the area I know the road they were on well, and no way IMO was this accidental. I think this was the last ditch effort to exert control over their children’s lives, and what’s more controlling than taking away their right to live? I so hope that the other three are found but I am not hopeful about a positive outcome. I can only hope those kids in the car were sleeping and never knew what was coming. Heartbroken and sick.


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[georgiajean]

There are three ways to get into California. All three ways have agriculture stations, where you have to declare any fresh fruits/veggies/plants. Those Ag stations have cameras and people staffing them. I hope LE have checked those to try and determine time frames.

I know well the routes from Woodland to that bridge. If they traveled on 101, that is not a fast route, with lots of curves. So longer than 10 hours. If they took 299 from Redding to Eureka, also a slower route, due to the road.

Why were they going down Hwy 1? Was it coincidental that they left right after CPS visit? Maybe they didn't answer the door because they were getting ready for trip?

Having worked with many children and teens impacted by trauma, I will wait until more comes out before weighing in more. I lived in Vancouver area (just south of Woodland) up until September last year, and remember seeing this family at rallies. Heartbreaking loss of the future.

 

[georgiajean]

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Woo...1061f9da7!2m2!1d-123.7741144!2d39.7070501!3e0