Gun Control Debate #6

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After Gun Control Marches, ‘It’ll Go Away’ vs. ‘We Are Not Cynical Yet’

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/01/us/politics/gun-control-marches-protests.html

“Every time something happens, everybody’s hollering,” Garland Ashby, 77, the owner of an estimated 75 guns, said of the recent protests over gun control, rubbing at his cigarette stub from a park bench in this town of 4,200. “A couple of months it’s in the news, and then it’s gone.”

More than a week has passed since some 800 student-led marches pulsed through the country and abroad — more than a week for momentum to build, or stall out, or morph into something beyond anyone’s control. And in this tossup congressional district, a short drive from the demonstration’s nexus in Washington, and in other House battlegrounds nationwide, a consensus has formed on at least this much: Both sides think they are being underestimated. Both insist their adversaries will tire eventually, punching themselves out.

“It’ll go away,” Mr. Ashby predicted, grinding the cigarette into the mud. “Like all the other times.”

Looking to history, fledgling activists are researching Vietnam-era student protests for context and inspiration. They are using words like “intersectional.” They are quoting favored lyrics from “Hamilton”: “This is not a moment, it’s the movement.”

That movement, though, will hinge on reversing years of below-average voter turnout among young Americans — translating sound and fury into the long, slow work of lasting change.

Yet even in corners of the country unaccustomed to dissent on gun issues, supporters of restrictions sense an opening. In Maine’s Second Congressional District, a region that includes both small cities and parcels of land so rural they are officially called “unorganized territory,” school walkouts and satellite March for Our Lives protests have specked the map, powered by students and Democratic activists.

Though gun owners have betrayed little immediate concern — “If they hang around, we’ll still be here, and if they don’t, we’ll still be here,” said Todd Tolhurst, the president of Gun Owners of Maine — students seem comfortable with their odds in any war of attrition.

“We’ll outlive them,” said Sean Monteith, 17, a junior at Lewiston High School, adding that he hoped his peers would be able to outvote them, too. His cellphone includes a list of action items and reminders: “connect with city council,” “draft legislation,” “do not go on assumptions.”
 
What being an ER doc taught me about sensible gun control | Guest column

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2018/04/01/gun-control-assault-weapons/472680002/

I remember him clearly, as I had never before seen a human being so completely destroyed physically.

When he arrived and was placed in trauma bay 1 on our sterile, stainless-steel trauma “bed”, 4 pairs of scissors went to work simultaneously cutting off his blood soaked clothing. As his clothing fell, I distinctly remember the tinkle of bullet fragments and jackets hitting the floor.

There were so many. All of us in the trauma bay stood in mute witness to what even the most calloused of us could never imagine. The weapon that had been used to murder him was clearly a weapon of war.

One foot was almost amputated, dangling by a bit of flesh. On the other end of his mangled body a hand was similarly hanging on by a bit of tissue.

In between, his abdomen looked as if he had been attacked by a bear or with a chainsaw, not speaking rhetorically, as I’ve seen and treated both.

I could not believe, and still now more than ever, do not believe, that these weapons of war belong in civilian hands.

bbm
 
I'm so glad he apologized and clarified his statement. He gets it. He's been through so much, and always speaks his mind, and I respect him for that. (He's also a phenomenal musician, imo.)

Eagles of Death Metal frontman ‘sorry’ for criticizing student gun protest

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/eagl...an-sorry-for-criticizing-student-gun-protest/

Eagles of Death Metal frontman Jesse Hughes has issued a video in which he apologizes for criticizing the March for Our Lives and Never Again movement, saying: “I truly am sorry.”

Hughes – who was onstage in Paris in 2015 when 89 people in the Bataclan venue were shot dead by terrorists – initially appeared to demonstrate contempt for American students’ reaction against school shootings.

In his new video, below, Hughes – surrounded by musical instruments – said:

“Recently, I made some posts on my Instagram that did not communicate how I feel about a variety of topics.

"What I’d intended to be a statement about the hijacking of any side of the aisle of the beautiful agenda of the movement of our nation’s youth, came off seeming like a mean-spirited personal attack or sleight of the youth themselves, or even a personal attack on its leadership.

“I wanna be clear – I never intended for that to happen; I was not attempting to impune the youth of America and this beautiful thing they’ve accomplished. I truly am sorry. I did not mean to hurt anyone or cause any harm.

"As someone who’s watched their friends shot in front of their eyes and seen people killed that they love, I should have handled this a lot more maturely and responsibly, and I did not do that. I messed up.

“And I hope that you’re able to forgive me, but please know that I did not mean to do what it seems like it was I was doing.”

bbm
 
Youth-organized activists take to Oakland streets to protest gun violence

http://triblive.com/local/allegheny...s-march-in-pittsburgh-for-black-lives-matters

"If we are young enough to experience our peers getting shot in their schools," said Siegert-Wilkinson, 14, a 10th-grader at Pittsburgh Creative and Performing Arts School, "we're young enough to protest that."

The high schooler took to the streets of Pittsburgh on Saturday afternoon marching alongside fellow youths and adults who say they're concerned about gun violence and demand urgent solutions from policymakers.

bbm
 
The gun control conversation isn't going away

http://www.thecourierexpress.com/ne...cle_3fef519c-65cd-5262-97c6-242fca5a4d5f.html

The trend for major issues in the media is to get 15 minutes of spotlight and fade into the background of newsrooms nationwide.

But internationally known pollster John Zogby said the gun control conversation is here to stay.

"These kids were harnessed by murder," said Zogby.

"It's not going away," said Zogby. "This is a life-changing event for not only the Parkland young people, but for part of an age-cohort that don't know anything but school violence."

As major stories make their way from the front to the back of newspapers and broadcasts, Zogby noted that even as you go from spring break to summer vacation, there won't likely be a trend of rest from facing the issues.

"I think political leaders are misreading this sentiment if they think it's going to go away during summer vacation," said Zogby.

bbm
 
You've been busy EuTuCroquet? - thank-you for all the articles you have posted, today and other days. I see the movement is sweeping across America - good news imo.

Just want to saying a little something to the Parkland and other students -

You don't really need to spend much time, if any, on addressing your detractors - you have far more people behind you than can be counted at the moment. The new laws already enacted speak to your success. Go with that and focus on your mission going forward - you're doing more than anyone thought could happen in such a short period of time and far more than any adult in recent decades.

The Ted's, Laura's etc of this world have nothing to offer America at the moment - they are trying to ridd on your success looking for attention. It's not working out for them, but much success is coming your way for the good of all Americans.

In my experience, one of the hardest things to understand and know in life is - am I being heard? Were people listening? Did I have an impact?
The answer to all of the above is yes.

Don't look back and don't be distracted - you will leave the detractors in your dust (that's an old saying, but I think you will understand the meaning).

Regards, W
 
In my experience, one of the hardest things to understand and know in life is - am I being heard? Were people listening? Did I have an impact?
The answer to all of the above is yes.

Well said, Woodland.
 
Thank YOU, Woodland. :heartbeat:
 
You've been busy EuTuCroquet? - thank-you for all the articles you have posted, today and other days. I see the movement is sweeping across America - good news imo.

Just want to saying a little something to the Parkland and other students -

You don't really need to spend much time, if any, on addressing your detractors - you have far more people behind you than can be counted at the moment. The new laws already enacted speak to your success. Go with that and focus on your mission going forward - you're doing more than anyone thought could happen in such a short period of time and far more than any adult in recent decades.

The Ted's, Laura's etc of this world have nothing to offer America at the moment - they are trying to ridd on your success looking for attention. It's not working out for them, but much success is coming your way for the good of all Americans.

In my experience, one of the hardest things to understand and know in life is - am I being heard? Were people listening? Did I have an impact?
The answer to all of the above is yes.

Don't look back and don't be distracted - you will leave the detractors in your dust (that's an old saying, but I think you will understand the meaning).

Regards, W

This post is everything. Well said, Woodland!
 
Gun violence puts spotlight on underfunded mental health organizations

https://mibiz.com/news/nonprofit-bu...ht-on-underfunded-mental-health-organizations

Leaders of area nonprofit mental health organizations say they are cautiously optimistic about increased funding coming their way after facing persistent cuts to their budgets.

“I’m hopeful that these tragic events will shine a light on a system that’s underfunded,” said Scott Gilman, executive director of Network 180, the community mental health authority for Kent County. “This issue, along with opioid crisis, uses the same bucket of money. We’re flooded with people who need treatment for opioids and people who are suicidal. While it’s tragic, it’s great if it can bring attention to a national problem.”

Network 180 has a total budget of $140 million that will be reduced by $10 million because of cuts to its sole source of funding: Medicaid. These reductions will affect prevention programs such as outreach to the Hispanic and Native American communities.

“We are actually having to look at borrowing money to finish out the year,” Gilman said.
 
Bayer 16th Co. to Drop Ingraham As Gun Control Issue Looms in Midterms

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/0...m-as-gun-control-issue-looms-in-midterms.html

Political strategists and pollsters say there is now more apparent public support for gun reform than there has ever been, so for Democrats to focus on this hot-button issue is a smart move. The mass murder of 17 people in Parkland, Florida on Valentine’s day was a catalyst that seems to have changed public opinion as well as sparking massive anti-gun protests throughout the country on March 24th.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/381137-bayer-ag-pulls-ads-from-the-ingraham-angle

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Stoneman Douglas students return to school with stepped-up security, clear backpacks

https://wsvn.com/news/local/stoneman-douglas-students-return-to-school-with-stepped-up-security/

Classes have resumed following spring break and students walked in to a few changes, including free, clear backpacks provided by the district.

The security changes also included:

  • Additional security personnel on campus:
  • Mandatory clear backpacks — which will be provided
  • I.D. badges must be worn by students and staff at all times
  • Use of metal-detecting wands and installed metal detectors

Students took to social media to express their angst over the new clear backpack policy, including one student saying they do not help make her feel safer.
 
Whaaaaaaa ... ??? Not sure what he could possibly be thinking when he said it, but I'm glad he apologized. (Apologies if this was already posted upthread and I missed it.)


Actor Frank Stallone, Sylvester's brother, apologizes for calling David Hogg a 'rich little b---h'

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...d-shooting-frank-stallone-20180402-story.html

Actor Frank Stallone has apologized after unleashing a vile rant on "coward" Parkland shooting survivor David Hogg.

Stallone, 67, said he was "deeply ashamed" after branding the teen a "rich little b---h" in a Saturday tweet that has since been deleted.

"To everyone and to David Hogg, especially. I want to deeply apologize for my irresponsible words. I would never in a million years wish or promote violence to anyone anywhere on this planet," he wrote on Twitter Sunday. "After what these kids went through, I'm deeply ashamed. Please accept my apology."

bbm
 
In Florida, Cities Challenge State On Gun Regulation Laws

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/02/598042099/in-florida-cities-challenge-state-on-gun-regulation-laws

In Florida, only the state is allowed to regulate firearms. Local government officials who ignore that law — posting signs prohibiting guns in city parks, for example — face stiff penalties. They include removal from office, a $5,000 fine officials must pay from their personal funds and lawsuits from any person or group affected.

That's effectively stopped local governments from taking any action on guns, until Parkland. Following the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, like the students, local government officials are speaking up.

Two weeks after the Parkland shooting, Raul Valdes-Fauli, the mayor of Miami suburb Coral Gables, proposed a law that would ban the sale of high velocity semiautomatic rifles. Valdes-Fauli said he was prepared for the state-mandated penalties.

"Our legislature is cowardly," Valdes-Fauli said. "They are sold to the NRA. And it takes cities, or individuals or communities such as ours to do something."

bbm
 
Stoneman Douglas students return to school with stepped-up security, clear backpacks

https://wsvn.com/news/local/stoneman-douglas-students-return-to-school-with-stepped-up-security/

Classes have resumed following spring break and students walked in to a few changes, including free, clear backpacks provided by the district.

The security changes also included:

  • Additional security personnel on campus:
  • Mandatory clear backpacks — which will be provided
  • I.D. badges must be worn by students and staff at all times
  • Use of metal-detecting wands and installed metal detectors

Students took to social media to express their angst over the new clear backpack policy, including one student saying they do not help make her feel safer.

So there is a gun violence problem, and instead of addressing guns they make students wear clear backpacks? Well that will solve everything! I can see why someone might think that clear backpacks might help stop students bringing something into school that they shouldn't, but to me this epitomises everything that is wrong with the way some in the US look at gun crime. Instead of sensible gun control measures, they ban backpacks! Absolutely ridiculous!
 
I was going to read through these threads, but realized I would likely want to answer each post and that would be just foolish. However, I would like to add my two cents.

1) We already have a ban on automatic weapons for private citizens, save a few extreme cases. A semi-automatic weapon is a whole different kind of handgun or rifle and still requires a trigger pull for each bullet fired. So, please stop using the term "automatic weapons" in your discussions, it just proves that you do not know what you are talking about.

2) There is no such thing as an assault weapon. Any object can be used in an assault, but the AR-15 rifle that everyone is screaming about is nothing more than a rifle with a plastic stock rather than a wooden one. AR means Armalite - a plastic - which makes the rifle lighter to carry. So, when you scream about the AR-15, you are showing that you know nothing about rifles and your demands are just that we stop having plastic stocks which seems rather ridiculous. And, yes, they are used for sport and hunting, like all rifles.

3) The number of people killed by AR-15s is staggeringly low, about 175 per year. In fact, most people that are killed with guns are victims of handguns used by criminals. That being the case, the overwhelming majority of gun deaths each year are suicides - 60%. Next in line are gang related shootings which combined with suicides represents 88% of all gun deaths. Next comes accidental shootings and last but, but not least, murders. Roughly 3,000 murders by handguns each year, the vast majority of which are illegally obtained and owned. Again a staggering low number considering the 325 million people in this country and the estimated 200 million guns out there. The fact is that more people die as a result of being beat to death with an object or strangled by a loved one than are murdered with handguns. More people die of medical negligence. Should we ban hospitals and medical staff? Of course not.

4) Guns, like all inanimate objects, do nothing on their own. A gun is no more dangerous than a tulip. The person behind the gun, with their finger on the trigger is the danger. This is a fact that you can not dispute. You can treat madness, but you cannot legislate it out of society.

5) The NRA does not make political contributions to any party or candidate. Your are mistaking PACs with the NRA. If you research the contributions made by the PACs, you will see that they are minuscule; in the $2K range to a candidate. This is hardly enough to sway opinion or votes.

6) In every case of mass shootings, without exception, the shooter was mentally ill and there were red flags that were missed. Mental illness causes mass shootings, not guns. Perhaps you've read about the uptick in murders in England where handguns are banned. The criminals use knives which you can buy without a background check or an ID. You have several of these assault weapons in your kitchen.

7) We have laws that criminalize the mis-use of guns. It is illegal to: steal a gun, be a felon in possession of a gun, shoot a gun in a populated area or use a gun to commit any crime, etc., etc. Criminals do not obey laws, neither do the mentally ill. The 200 million law abiding gun owners obey the law and that is why we are all still here to discuss it.

8) You will never legislate the murder out of men's hearts. God Himself told us not to kill and it hasn't stopped anyone from committing murder. I suggest there is no higher authority for believers, but even a self-inflicted set of moral standards for non-believers doesn't stop them from murdering either. Hitler used gas, McVeigh used fertilizer, 911 was jumbo jets, Jones used spiked Kool-Aid, the Khmer Rouge used starvation.

9) Without the 2d amendment, you can forget all other rights. ALL. Criminals like their victims unarmed and governments without armed populaces can easily turn against the citizens and atrocities occur. Look no further than any dictatorship and see the millions of lives exterminated by oppressive regimes. Our forefathers knew well how oppressive governance turns out and wrote into our BOR the right to fight against it. Any argument that they intended the amendment to mean 'muskets' is silly. They intended the citizens to have a formidable defense against an oppressive regime.

10) Don't be so quick to throw away your rights. Once gone, they will never return. You have the inherent right of self-defense. If you have never been in a situation where a gun would have saved you or a loved on from harm, I am happy for you. But, if you or a loved one have been the victim of a violent crime which could have been prevented if you were armed, I bet you wish you had that gun at the time.

11) This latest shooting has generated a lot of emotion, but blaming the NRA, guns, gun manufacturers or law abiding gun owners is disingenuous. It would be like blaming all drivers who drink socially, AAA and car manufacturers for drunk driving deaths. And, that would be kinda ridiculous, wouldn't it?

12) These kids from the school did not organize this 'march'. It was orchestrated by organizations that stir tumult for the sake of stirring tumult. To believe otherwise stretches credulity to the breaking point.

13) The Parkland shooter could have been stopped. There were warnings, reports, red flags every where. This isn't a gun issue, it is a ''slip through the cracks" issue at the highest level, all the way to the FBI.

14) It is estimated that guns in the hands of private citizens prevent roughly 2 million violent encounters every year. Remember, the sociopath criminals WILL get the guns. You will be defenseless against them. You may want to take that chance, it is your choice, but those of us who choose to be prepared to defend ourselves and others do not want to risk it. It is our right.

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. You may choose the opposite, I can not force you to carry a firearm. But, you can't deny me my right to defend myself. You can't choose for me. You don't have that right.

Finally, if this really was about saving lives and the sanctity of human life, the marches would be about drug addictions and abortions. In the US alone , 50,000 die each year from illegal drug use and 1.2 million die each year by being shredded in uerto. It isn't about life, it's about control and the stealthy, incremental dissolution of Constitutional rights.

BEWARE. You know not what you surrender. Don't be a sheep.

The Constitution doesn't need to be re-written, it needs to be re-read. A lot.
 
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