CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

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JUST IN - Mendocino County deputies say the body of an African American girl was discovered today off the California coast, very close to the crash of the Hart family. @fox12oregon
 
Per the teachers posts: Every state has different requirements to get hired. And getting your teaching certificate in one state does NOT guarantee that you can teach in another state. 30 years of teaching experience here... But,I am more interested in trying to figure out what happened to those kids. Is there anyway for them to be able to tell from the SUV whether the kids were there? These are experts going over this crime scene..is it possible that any DNA evidence would still be on scene? I hate not knowing the fate of those 3 kids..are there any searches going on in case they are alive??
 
sillybilly said:
Just popping in with a reminder folks.
Members are allowed to speculate to some degree based on some known fact, but wild speculation (i.e. someone is delusional, spent all the money, poisoning of food) with nothing to substantiate is not allowed. Such posts get removed.

:wave:
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I think this was meant for me, and I put in several times it was all theory. Based on facts and a very knowledgeable perspective, let's say, profile, of what would drive someone to do this. And someone would not be acting in their rational mind to drive their family off a cliff, bend their daughter over a bathtub, beat her with a closed fist, and hold her head under freezing cold water as well as put her in a tub of freezing water over a penny. Then have her wife plead guilty for it. I also think Devonte's immediacy and going to neighbors daily and then increasingly, then showing at 11:30 at night requesting a stock pile of food, I would say that things had escalated severely next door. There are reports Jen was a gamer and high up as a host or something that apparently costs a lot of money, no idea. She had previous posts about almost going homeless over getting rear-ended? So, I question budgetary discretion. With someone that has these two different sides, of wanting celebratory and being very outgoing to someone closed off, it seems, from society for the last couple years. The current neighbors said they never go anywhere, not even outside, since moving in and have seen one unfamiliar car, not that there hasn't been others, but not a lot of visitors. And the tales of the KKK burning the cross, there is no evidence. She writes there's been cancer, surgery, a stalker, threats, all of these horrible things, yet shut the family off from everyone? And Oregon neighbors who actually were close to them stated they knew of nothing happening that there was concern over. Just "some sort of right wing posters" they saw put up on telling me poles around town that bothered them. I've had some experience with people who go a little too much into conspiracy theories. So, lying, paranoia, delusion? Conspiracy? Going from outgoing, going away, impulsive trips, to disengaging from everyone, changing phone numbers and having people wanting to know where the family has been for two years...I question a mood disorder? Along with her other posts and things, family estrangement Refusing help from friends. Yet being ""overwhelmed" according to Sarah. Not allowing the services the kids need in the house, or letting them go to school even? To develop skills to be functional adults. How were they preparing to eventually be productive functioning members of society without electronic devices and sitting indoors? It's again, not a rational mind at work. I did notice a couple kids have eyeglasses. So, no front teeth? But eye glasses? Or were different children treated differently.
The fact that no camping equipment, clothing, nothing, along with the children's bodies haven't been found, even a shoe, makes me wonder if the other three took off and that's why this all happened. Because that was the real loss of control. I originally posted because someone kept posting for people to stop making thread all about themselfs and help with the case. People keep having debates about homeschooling, unrelated issues, how many children someone should adopt, etc...So, I was trying to give some ideas that people could throw around. I wasn't aware that was unacceptable. I apologize. Like I said, it was all my own theory based on some facts, and I am very concerned that if the other 3 are out there they are terrified, starving, and afraid to seek help because they think they'd be brought back to them. So if the search isn't hitting all of the camp sights or rest areas in the area, it should be. Maybe a banner in the sky?
 
Starkville said:
IIRC, the term was “covered in weeds”.

Personally I was imagining those little burrs. You know the ones that are like little Velcro balls (they actually inspired the invention of Velcro). Not sure what they’re called officially, and not sure if the West Coast has them.

Edited to add: The plants are at most waist-high and usually on the periphery of woods.

JMO
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OOOOH I hate those!!!! My poor dog was always attacked by them, and they hurt!! Can't think of the name....
 
Zelda1010 said:
From the crime online article, as well.

[ "He said that authorities have not located all of the cell phones that belonged to the Hart family, but that they are still able to track the devices for any activity. There has been no cell phone activity since March 26. Investigators are continuing to examine surveillance footage taken at a grocery store in Fort Bragg, California, where Jennifer Hart was seen on March 25, to help determine if all of the family members were together at the time." ]
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The part in [ ] brackets is brought forward ... for context.

If the phones were all in the same place on March 26, then we know that three of the children did not run away before the women fled home. That is, all the children were with them on that day.
OR
Were all the phones tracked to the same location on March 26? Has there been a clear statement from investigators tracking that all phones were active and in the same place on that day? What can be learned from the cell phone data? If there is a question about whether the children were drugged (aren't toxicology results going to take some months?), wouldn't the children phone activity all stop at about the same time with adult phone activity continuing?

Does that make sense?
 
cady said:
OOOOH I hate those!!!! My poor dog was always attacked by them, and they hurt!! Can't think of the name....
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We always called those cockleburs. They are the devil to get out of our dog's hair.
 
Wow. Someone mentioned before that if you're heading north on Hwy 1 there, this Juan Creek Bridge area is the last place where you are driving right on top of the coast like that.

My gut says Jen couldn't face turning inland toward home on this particular trip. A trip they've likely made before. Maybe various times. I know I break long trips up into legs of the trip, even if only in my mind. "Oh, I've passed that land mark that makes me feel like vacation is over."

I'm very sad. There was too much wrong in that house for too long. I'm angry at Jen. I'm conflicted about Sarah.

I'm sad for the really and truly special children who would have had such gifts for society if they had just been allowed to live and leave the abuse behind.

And now...I see a body pulled from the surf....

I hope they never saw it coming. I hope it was a lovely trip. They probably dreaded that turn inland toward home too. So sad.
 
LindsayAnne said:
Wow, that’s a bit scary IMO. No psychological evaluations to adopt a HUMAN. But if you want to donate an organ to help a stranger or loved one, you go through a weeks worth of psych evals. *speaking from experience (and working in the medical field I understand why it’s done). I’m just having a hard time understanding why it’s not done to people who are adopting.



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I think there were psychological evaluations. The questionnaires were all about what one would do, in given stressful situations. I am sure some answers would be red flagged. They were very detailed, and they wanted concrete responses.

The home studies were also psychological evaluations. They visited our home, and looked through kitchen cabinets, closets, bathroom cabinets, and even went into the garage. I think you can tell a lot about someone by their home. And they pretty much interrogated us. 'Why do we want to adopt, what did we expect from it, what were our hopes, what were our fears...how did we come to the decision, which one of us was most eager, how did our family feel, is anyone not supportive, are we really prepared, what if we change our minds, what if the child has some major illnesses down the road, etc etc'...... they were evaluating our responses, and testing our emotional/mental stability.

They spoke to our neighbors and to our employers and to some family members. They looked at police records, to make sure there were not any. Checked employment history, educational backgrounds and even looked at close family members. If there were any psychological problems, I think they would show up in those places.

So I think it is incorrect to say there were no psych evaluations. They were evaluating our psychological stability through out the process.

In fact, some of those initial questionnaires, might have been psychological exams, like the ones given by police departments etc. The ones where they give you a long list of detailed questions, then repeat them in slightly different wording, to try and trip you up.

Also, the process went on for 18 months. That is how long it took to adopt our newborn baby. It is not a quick interview and it is over and done.

They also looked closely at the first 18 months of pediatric appointments. Doctor knew this was an adoption and he would have reported anything amiss.
 
OT Just heard that there is a fire at Trump Tower....one fatality
 
human said:
As a retired teacher, I can tell you if someone is inappropriate during a practicum, they are reported. Things have changed since I retired as I looked up getting a special ed degree at my university . They have a whole new degree I never heard.

Anywah, I had all kinds of students from the University doing different assignments. The one where the student is on their own is student teaching. Sarah would have to do several practicums. And if it is like I where I lived, she would have to student teach in two,levels of elementary— upper and lower grades as well as student teaching in special ed.

Being a teacher is different than the student experience because much more goes into teaching than a student teacher gers. One is the relarionship with parents.

And kids love a student teacher. Usually as a teacher we have set the stage for discipline so that is covered. A student teacher does not start at the beginning of school so that will be different in the real world.

But, I think her salary in retail was at least $20,000 more than a beginning teacher. So silly to go for a big paycut as well as having to do do evenings and weekends with schoolwork.
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Typically, where I am, practicum assignments are divided between elementary, and junior/senior secondary. Secondary teachers have three practicums: junior, senior, and sometimes government programs. Elementary practicums are only grades 1-6.

Beyond parent teacher interviews and parent-teacher relationships, there's classroom management, teaching and learning. The management piece occassionally reduces practicum teachers to tears and other inappropriate responses.

A quick search of teacher and Kohl salaries was $53k for Kohls managers, and $51k for teachers in Colorado. If the money is the same, and teacher job includes three months of vacation, why be a store manager?
 
Emi said:
http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...ean-near-hart-family-crash-site/283-536263681

WESTPORT, Calif. – A body was recovered Saturday near the site of the Hart family crash, the Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office said.

Shortly before 2 p.m. Saturday, a couple vacationing along the coast reported a possible body floating in the surf near Juan Creek, the sheriff’s office said.
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BBM

You've got to hand it to those vacationers. . . it was reported that a German tourist was the first to notice the SUV on the rocks, and now it's another person on vacation who reported the news we were waiting (but, IMO, not exactly "hoping") for.
 
beatrixpotter said:
I have a large family and homeschool my children. I was actually also homeschooled as a child myself. I have to admit I find the prejudice I find in threads like this very offensive. I have had to delete what I type up so many times. It's grossly offensive to me to refer to me as a child hoarder because of my family size. Quite frankly it's just disgusting. Just as disgusting as if someone made some bigoted remark on here regarding someone else's religion or sexuality.

I have my children because I LOVE them. Not because I collect them. I and my husband work very hard to provide everything I can for my children. I think it's very offensive to imply (as I've seen many times) that just because I have this many children it's some deep seated psychological issue. Just because you read of a handful of abusive large families or google some articles online does not make "you" an expert on large families or homeschooling for that matter.

To suggest that my family requires an extra level of "monitoring" because of two families recently in the news is just beyond the pale. I'm tired of this being a factor zeroed in on while other major common denominators in other crimes are ignored simply because they are more common. How many families with a small number of children abuse or kill them? Probably more. Why not suggest extra monitoring there? How many children who are in public schools are abused? Most children who are abused are actually in public schools. It doesn't prevent it. Since it doesn't prevent it and so very many still fall through the cracks why not suggest more monitoring for children in the environment?

Child hoarders? That's just disgusting and hateful and clearly a term deliberately intended to be offensive.
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Thank you for saying everything I’ve been thinking!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
 
Emi said:
http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...ean-near-hart-family-crash-site/283-536263681

WESTPORT, Calif. – A body was recovered Saturday near the site of the Hart family crash, the Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office said.

Shortly before 2 p.m. Saturday, a couple vacationing along the coast reported a possible body floating in the surf near Juan Creek, the sheriff’s office said.
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Female body found

http://www.koin.com/news/washington/body-found-in-ocean-near-hart-family-crash-site/1106540364
[FONT=&quot]The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office said the body appears to be an African American female, but the age can not be confirmed until an autopsy is done. DNA testing could take several weeks. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The body was pulled from the water Saturday near Juan Creek in Westport, California.



[/FONT]
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/07/us/hart-family-search-body-found/index.html
The body was found floating in the surf near Juan Creek by a couple that was vacationing along the coast, the sheriff's office said.
Sheriff's officials said the body appears to be that of an African-American female but the age, identity, and cause of death are not known.
An autopsy is planned for Tuesday.


https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...Crash-Site-in-Mendocino-County-479064233.html
 
human said:
They chose to go to MN for some reason. Alexandria is beautiful. I think her beginning teacher’s salary would be around $30,000 . With the retail in the $50000 amount, it’s a no brainer.

Are there places people can live on a teacher’s begiining salary?
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But, if looking for a teaching job that paid well and had great benefits and vacation time, then why not Colorado. They were a mobile family, so if teaching was an option with a good salary, why not do it?
 
beatrixpotter said:
I have a large family and homeschool my children. I was actually also homeschooled as a child myself. I have to admit I find the prejudice I find in threads like this very offensive. I have had to delete what I type up so many times. It's grossly offensive to me to refer to me as a child hoarder because of my family size. Quite frankly it's just disgusting. Just as disgusting as if someone made some bigoted remark on here regarding someone else's religion or sexuality.

I have my children because I LOVE them. Not because I collect them. I and my husband work very hard to provide everything I can for my children. I think it's very offensive to imply (as I've seen many times) that just because I have this many children it's some deep seated psychological issue. Just because you read of a handful of abusive large families or google some articles online does not make "you" an expert on large families or homeschooling for that matter.

To suggest that my family requires an extra level of "monitoring" because of two families recently in the news is just beyond the pale. I'm tired of this being a factor zeroed in on while other major common denominators in other crimes are ignored simply because they are more common. How many families with a small number of children abuse or kill them? Probably more. Why not suggest extra monitoring there? How many children who are in public schools are abused? Most children who are abused are actually in public schools. It doesn't prevent it. Since it doesn't prevent it and so very many still fall through the cracks why not suggest more monitoring for children in the environment?

Child hoarders? That's just disgusting and hateful and clearly a term deliberately intended to be offensive.
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Thank you for writing this. :happydance: I feel the same way, which is why I posted what I did about my experience as a social worker. In my professional experience, "big" families were at no bigger risk for abuse/neglect than "small" families. We tend to hear about these cases of abuse in the media because they seem to make good stories when, in reality, there are hundreds of cases of abuse and neglect reported every single day across the country in families that have only one or two children. Besides, that number is so subjective anyway. What is "big", what is not? My "big" may not be your "big" and, even if they're the same, insinuating that there is something nefarious going on just because one family has more kids than another is (IMO) ignorant and unfounded.

In addition, it's only been fairly recent in history that families became smaller in size. My maternal grandmother had 13 children. That was not uncommon.

I, for one, am glad that we do not live in a country that dictates family size.
 
Starkville said:
IIRC, the term was “covered in weeds”.

Personally I was imagining those little burrs. You know the ones that are like little Velcro balls (they actually inspired the invention of Velcro). Not sure what they’re called officially, and not sure if the West Coast has them.

Edited to add: The plants are at most waist-high and usually on the periphery of woods.

JMO
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They had said blackberry brambles and the wild ones are vicious. I’m yanking them out of my garden now and even with jeans and thick leather gloves the vines are tearing me up. She had to have been absolutely terrified to run through that and keep going.

Also, the DeKalbs said those were between their home and the other neighbor’s who she tried to go to first if that helps.


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