CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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human said:
Me too. Have been a left wing whacko for 1/2 century. Over the course of time, I have seen the fake and phony exploiting these ideas of peace, love, etc.

Rachel Dolezal is a good example. I could never understand her but she now fits into this new type of ?????? whatever it is.

There are those that do the sweat lodges for money. The appropriation of the clothing, spirituality , music and on and on for money and or fake personnas.

When I see all of this cultural appropriation it makes me cringe and wonder what the person is all about. And now since the Hart nightmare, I am even more cynical.

Using children in this way really gets me. I wonder if it is a motivation for some of the movie stars we read about.
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Human, you and I are in the same age group...

The times, music and electricity from our generation has been corporatized. What was once spontaneous is now big business.

I remember fun town celebrations with kids, but no children were present during the Vietnam or the police brutality protests in the 70's...

Bbm. Burning Man is the penultimate of all roads lead to the multicultural oneness of the perspective of the global, tribal unity, celebrity lead, SM events posted abound, tons of money. Who knows what is next.

Mind you, I think some of the burning man creations are just over the top awesome. But let's recognize it for what it is rather than some PR extravaganza... It's a drug fest in the middle of the desert.

I have one friend who went there and never came back the same... And not in a good way. What drugs? Where do they come from? Good lord, someone jumped into the fire last year.

So I ask this Q, because I admit I did LSD in the 70's, what are the drugs of choice? My experience was always with friends in small groups, experimenting. I cannot imagine doing this drug in its purest chemical form, or mushrooms at some festival?

And, don't know, maybe KZ could weigh in on psychedelics, how long they would stay in ones system? I'm curious.

I say this with judgement for parents... Drugs stop with kids. And if they don't, then what? Is MJ a problem? Sure is fifty times more powerful than when I grew up. Mushroom soup? Or windowpane?

I suspect, the silence from perhaps many communities is because so much of the PR of free love is a cover, for drugs, much like it was in my day.

Lots of drugs, great veggies to counter the side effects, earth movement, grow pot, solar, off the grid... Greatful dead!!!

So, here's my Q... What drug of choice for J&S? Is it possible they escaped? Or maybe their family needs to be notified,first?
 
K_Z said:
I think I explained it pretty well. The goal for a child adopted internationally is assimilation to the new culture, with a connection/ appreciation/ opportunities to the birth culture. Food, traditions, holidays, knowledge of relevant history and culture, etc. Every family chooses to address this differently at each developmental stage of the child, according to their means, and availability. Obsessively mandating the birth culture of the child ("immersion") at home, in dress, food, activities, school-- trying to re-create/ continue the birth culture, insisting the child continue to speak the birth language, and not focusing on english competence-- is a recipe for major problems, and a bad parenting plan. It's antithetical to effective assimilation and appropriate social development in the new country.

I strongly disagree that "immersion" in the birth culture of an adopted child should be any kind of goal. It's confusing, alienating, and sets the child up for lifelong problems. They are now an American child of ______ ethnicity/ descent. Or a hyphenated- American, if once chooses that identity. That is their new identity until they are an adult, and can choose for themselves. That is the blunt truth of international adoption. It's controversial for some to understand, I get it.

Identity is a tough thing for some kids, for others it's as easy as breathing. You have to know your kids and what they need. That's what being a parent is all about, adoptive or birth.
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Hm. As a person not born in the US but white, I think I have real life experience as to what coming into a different culture (USA) is like. And my sister adopting kids from overseas and one of my best friend’s adopting non white children , but two born in the US gives me a fairly deep understanding.

What I mean by immersion is being with people of their culture at appropriate times. Shared meals with people invited to the home and vice versa. Going to celebrations. Even visiting the birthplace. Learning about their backgrounds from people who are part of the culture. Keeping the language alive.Learning about the contributions of their culture to the world.

There is so much wonderful about all peoples on earth.
 
enelram said:
1) I've not seen anything about donating to charities, BUT I have seen several references to Devonte COLLECTING


money at the events (supposedly) for charities.

2) there is one photo I've seen of SH that appeared to have a large yellowish bruise on the right side of her face, from

her rt. eye down lower.
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This one? I thought the same if so...
da6b33c6075512f71b0f927dd4c8195a.jpg


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
ETA link: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html
 
waschbaer said:
Yep I think so. One of my daughters is like this. Perfect straight white smile, never has had a cavity. While the rest of the family runs up dentist, periodontist, and orthodontist bills, too.
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I was a Dental Assistant for over 10 years. I worked for general and many specialist. Pretty, straight teeth does not mean your gums and surrounding bone support are in healthy condition. Not brushing, flossing and reg dental care visits can cause many problems other than cavities from decay including abscesses, gum and periodontal disease. When I worked for GP and Periodontist where some patients came in with beautiful straight teeth but poor dental hygiene and never had gone to the dentist or rarely gone that had horrible very bad smelly periodontal disease some with gum recession that had lost boney support around the teeth holding them in place. They would look great pearly white, and straight but be completely loose in the sockets. Flopping in the breeze and wiggling. I had to warn them the teeth may come out in the impression material trays or during the exam. Sure enough the really loose teeth would be stuck in the Alginate material. Ugh

Also kids and adults would come into my General Dentist office first time or had been years and hard calculus chunks adhered to the teeth that had to be removed by the hygienist. You can’t usually see especially behind your anterior teeth and hiding underneath the gums. The hygienist would remove the calculus which would be removed like hard chunks of rock.

People need to see a dentist regularly for cleanings and X-rays white or non white and straight or not straight. Everyone with teeth

The Hart’s could have taken Hannah to the Dentist and make her a cheap acrylic partial or what we called a flipper a removal appliance with matching two front teeth attached made with impressions. You can wear it when you want slips on and off almost like a retainer. More expensive would have been a metal removable partial denture, more expensive yet a ceramic fused to metal bridge. Most expensive would be two central incisor implants into the bone with posts.
 
MomGN2BMD said:
This one? I thought the same if so...
da6b33c6075512f71b0f927dd4c8195a.jpg


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
ETA link: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html
Click to expand...

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html

(ETA I see you edited to link, too, so my comment is really extra unnecessary)

I think Jen could be quite a bit heavier than the picture she uses as her FB profile. There was some surprise expressed at how heavy she appeared in the surveillance picture, is why I mention it. I don't think Jen ever approved of unflattering pictures of herself or her "tribe". Shocking, sure, but unflattering, no.
 
gitana1 said:
Excellent post. Your thoughts resonate with me. I don't have a problem with the Free Hugs movement. As long as ADULTS are the ones offering to hug strangers. Children should not be made or asked to hug a bunch of strangers, nor engage in the highly charged, emotionally intense moments with adults that Devonte engaged in on a couple occasions.

This is especially so when the kids in question come form troubled or abusive backgrounds.

Early on in this case I got a sense of narcissism from the couple and exploitation of the children using them as props to fulfill the narrative of the parents as super progressive and oppressed people with the specific, personal need to fight hard against the establishment.

A bunch of little black children helped fulfill that narrative.

Someone mentioned Rachel Dolezal, who was addicted to being seen as an oppressed black woman who was justified in raging against the machine. I had the same thought.

And listen, I'm a raging progressive liberal. And I live with the knowledge that various populations experience very real and systemic oppression in our nation.

But that doesn't mean a couple of narcissists can't latch on to a cause and exploit it and their children for attention and accolades.

I;m sadly certain that happened here and led to what you so profoundly described in your last paragraph.
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One of the things I've noticed with this sad case is that both liberals and conservatives are largely in complete agreement with the serious mistakes that these women made in adopting and parenting these kids. That gives me real hope for the ideological divisions in the country currently. I definitely lean conservative, while being socially moderate/ progressive. I see no problems in taking kids to a music festival-- even a "hippie" festival, as long as they continue to be appropriately parented in that setting. That means no drugs or exposure to others using drugs, no participation in public sex, etc. Maintenance of a safe place to retreat to for the kids, tent site, camper, etc-- with hopefully a "family zone." We've taken our own kids to such music festivals, quite successfully, even though I know for a fact that there were areas where lots of drugs were being used, public sex, etc. We supervised our kids at all times, went to the bigger stage performances during daylight hours, and participated in family activities back at the family zone in the evenings (campfires, music, marshmallows, etc.)

I have some serious problems with involving school aged kids (and especially kids adopted at an older age from traumatic backgrounds) in controversial and emotion charged protests/ demonstrations.

I totally agree that the "free hugs" campaign by the child, Devonte, was beyond inappropriate and dysfunctional, and perpetuated very confusing boundaries. Adults-- do whatever they want, but not recognizing this as a toxic and inappropriate situation for Devonte is tremendously disturbing-- as was the media's enthusiasm to exploit it.

I do think that most liberal and conservative parents, who are safe and effective parents, do a lot of the same things and have the same goals in mind. Most healthy people recognize exploitation when we see it. Most healthy people also recognize abuse and oppressive parenting when we see it. Most healthy people recognize dysfunctional parenting ideas and practices.

I think it's a very hopeful thing when people with ideologically opposite viewpoints (liberal and conservative) can find areas of certain agreement. That is the real hope for our American society, IMO. :loveyou:
 
SarahW said:
Occupy camps are no place for kids. Seriously.
Click to expand...

I know in MN they would be rousted by the police so not a good idea. I did not see kids at ones in MN. And because people were known to be friendly and caring, opportunists came as well.
 
gitana1 said:
Excellent post. Your thoughts resonate with me. I don't have a problem with the Free Hugs movement. As long as ADULTS are the ones offering to hug strangers. Children should not be made or asked to hug a bunch of strangers, nor engage in the highly charged, emotionally intense moments with adults that Devonte engaged in on a couple occasions.

This is especially so when the kids in question come form troubled or abusive backgrounds.

Early on in this case I got a sense of narcissism from the couple and exploitation of the children using them as props to fulfill the narrative of the parents as super progressive and oppressed people with the specific, personal need to fight hard against the establishment.

A bunch of little black children helped fulfill that narrative.

Someone mentioned Rachel Dolezal, who was addicted to being seen as an oppressed black woman who was justified in raging against the machine. I had the same thought.

And listen, I'm a raging progressive liberal. And I live with the knowledge that various populations experience very real and systemic oppression in our nation.

But that doesn't mean a couple of narcissists can't latch on to a cause and exploit it and their children for attention and accolades.

I;m sadly certain that happened here and led to what you so profoundly described in your last paragraph.
Click to expand...

Gitana1... thank you!
 
K_Z said:
One of the things I've noticed with this sad case is that both liberals and conservatives are largely in complete agreement with the serious mistakes that these women made in adopting and parenting these kids. That gives me real hope for the ideological divisions in the country currently. I definitely lean conservative, while being socially moderate/ progressive. I see no problems in taking kids to a music festival-- even a "hippie" festival, as long as they continue to be appropriately parented in that setting. That means no drugs or exposure to others using drugs, no participation in public sex, etc. Maintenance of a safe place to retreat to for the kids, tent site, camper, etc-- with hopefully a "family zone." We've taken our own kids to such music festivals, quite successfully, even though I know for a fact that there were areas where lots of drugs were being used, public sex, etc. We supervised our kids at all times, went to the bigger stage performances during daylight hours, and participated in family activities back at the family zone in the evenings (campfires, music, marshmallows, etc.)

I have some serious problems with involving school aged kids (and especially kids adopted at an older age from traumatic backgrounds) in controversial and emotion charged protests/ demonstrations.

I totally agree that the "free hugs" campaign by the child, Devonte, was beyond inappropriate and dysfunctional, and perpetuated very confusing boundaries. Adults-- do whatever they want, but not recognizing this as a toxic and inappropriate situation for Devonte is tremendously disturbing-- as was the media's enthusiasm to exploit it.

I do think that most liberal and conservative parents, who are safe and effective parents, do a lot of the same things and have the same goals in mind. Most healthy people recognize exploitation when we see it. Most healthy people also recognize abuse and oppressive parenting when we see it. Most healthy people recognize dysfunctional parenting ideas and practices.

I think it's a very hopeful thing when people with ideologically opposite viewpoints (liberal and conservative) can find areas of certain agreement. That is the real hope for our American society, IMO. :loveyou:
Click to expand...

Why not just take them to a family friendly camping area somewhere instead of a festival with those things kids should not be around? I just don’t get it whatever. I just raised my kids differently.
 
I read a how-to by a pro photographer in a magazine once for making your face appear slimmer in photos. Jen is following every one of those instructions each time we see her, and it's comically noticeable if you had read the same photographer's advice.
 
Zelda1010 said:
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html

(ETA I see you edited to link, too, so my comment is really extra unnecessary)

I think Jen could be quite a bit heavier than the picture she uses as her FB profile. There was some surprise expressed at how heavy she appeared in the surveillance picture, is why I mention it. I don't think Jen ever approved of unflattering pictures of herself or her "tribe". Shocking, sure, but unflattering, no.
Click to expand...

I wonder if she was too intoxicated to realize her unfiltered surveillance photo would reign supreme? Final, final...
 
Koshka said:
Gotta say, as I kid I'd have picked "hippie festival crap" any day over those two choices. And I'd still do so as a 60-something adult who doesn't even drink much less use drugs.
Click to expand...

Me too! I was a hippie parent of 2 and still managed to wind up with a fundamentalist baptist Preacher for a son!
 
waschbaer said:
Has anyone picked up any clues as to whether Jen was left-handed or right-handed?
Click to expand...
I see where you are going with this question, and would be interesting to determine, for other *maybe* questionable photos as well. However, I'll play devil's advocate early here and relay some anecdotal experience. My first ex-gf was an abusive alcoholic. I got struck plenty of times from both of her fists, despite her being RH-dominant. Sometimes she would use her stronger arm to hold me down or against the wall and her non-dominant to throw punches. Other times if it was an isolated blow it came directly from the dominant hand. But I agree, would still be interesting to establish.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Pics without links get removed. Members can't just snag a pic from someone else without giving credit to the source.

Unfortunately all the nice folks who took time to respond and discuss those same pics get their posts removed.

 
It is approaching darkness here in California. I had hoped someone would have found another of the children. Tomorrow may bring better results. I am sure with the full LE staff back to work something will happen.:loveyou:
 
kizzykat said:
In the surveillance photo she wears her purse over her shoulder where it's easily accessible for her left hand. ETA: in a position that it's awkward for her right hand to reach into the purse.
http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxne...e.img.png/612/344/1522858438211.png?ve=1&tl=1
Click to expand...

That picture shows, imo, 5 bananas, 6 bananas tops. Maybe it means nothing. Maybe it means they had a banana or two leftover, floating around in the vehicle. But no way is that 8 bananas in that bunch, in my humble banana-buying opinion.
 
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