CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[MrsEmmaPeel]

It is weird to me that they would take such a long drive for no purpose.

Wasn't it mentioned upthread that near the accident site was a beach where the family had had a memorable trip, picking up sea glass? I had a therapist once who said nothing is random. Everything we do is a metaphor and part of the story we're trying to tell. So driving to a "happy place" to kill the family makes perfect <<crazy>> sense. Or in other words, the trip wasn't random. It was TO something in the madness of J&S.

 

[katydid23]

They managed to explain things away two times in the past. So why not this time? Devonte did not want to get split up so the kids would probably lie.

Devonte had begun asking for large amounts of food. That seems like he was planning to help them all escape. And I think things had spun more out of control ing the home. The kids were now nearing young adulthood, and were not as compliant as before.

One or more of the kids may have had new injuries or bruises that would not be easily explained. It is easy to tell a story about a toddler falling down and hitting the coffee table. It is much harder to say that about a 15 or 16 yr old.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I just listened to the CHP officer’s account of what the air bag control module report consisted of and he stated that after the car came to a stop 70 feet from the edge, it was pure acceleration until the car hit the bottom of the cliff.

That means she kept her foot on the gas even after the car went off the edge. Scratch my statement above, I still think it was intentional.


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Ok so not just braking but it DID come to an actual stop 70 feet from the edge BEFORE accelerating off the cliff.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Something I haven't seen mention of: IF the festival circuit had connections to Osho. . .have you seen WILD WILD COUNTY? The Australian woman who served jail time? She wrote a book about her deep regrets, including the fact that both her children were sexually abused in the Rahjneesh community, which she didn't know until years later. That Osho hated children and didn't want them there, although there were children there. My point is, that where you have those large throngs of people being "free" sexually and otherwise it's really easy to hurt children. IF the Hart children were abused sexually, it's just another factor in their inability to speak out. Sexual abuse, from my experience, undermines self will, health, self-confidence, one's sense of reality, and one's ability to choose safety. It creates permanent damage. So more Stockholm Syndrome, beyond any abuse by S&J. Not important, just an observation.

Do you mean at the festivals or in the home? You will need a MSM or LE link for that.

 

[Doghairrules]

I'm thinking the turn around at Fort Bragg and the sick call indicate Sarah was a victim. I suspect that getting everyone into a car gave Jen a lot of control of her captive audience. She could coach, cajole, spin and plan, all the while her family were isolated from outside contact and essentially confined in her vehicle. I propose that even if she knew her end plan for her family, she would take great pains to let them think otherwise and keep them compliant and unsuspecting.
I wonder if Hannah was dead or seriously injured/ill when CPS came to the door. I wonder if there were any sitings of her after her August escape attempt. I wonder if she was chained or shackled to keep her from running again.
If the weight estimate we saw for Hannah is accurate there has been substantial weight loss since the birthday video last year. That is a ominous and frightening to me. Am I right that the video was shot before her escape attempt?
I pray Devonte escaped before they left the house or somewhere on the journey. I am clinging to hope that he squirreled away supplies and is living in the woods somewhere afraid to come forward and completely unaware of what has happened. MOO

That just made something come together for me (I admit I’m not the fastest sleuth on this site). I have not been able to figure out why they would dump Hannah & Devonte’s bodies separately if they were all gonna die anyway. But what if those two had the most physical evidence of long term abuse? The way it currently stands, some people can believe this was just a dire situation rather than that they engaged in systematic, soul-crushing abuse.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

It is easy to tell a story about a toddler falling down and hitting the coffee table. It is much harder to say that about a 15 or 16 yr old.​

I was just thinking that @katydid23. And take it a step further, these big kids are getting more rebellious and stronger and wilier every day. (Which oddly was a good sign) So many parents can't handle that. They love babies and little ones, but they hate parenting teenagers, which requires an entirely different skill set. Not that J&S had any skills, but when you resort to control, it always backfires. You can't control someone unless you shackle them.​

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Do you mean at the festivals or in the home? You will need a MSM or LE link for that.

No, it was my MOO and conjecture, that IF the festivals were connected to Osho and his philosophies of free love, there had been active child abuse in one major Osho community. If you've seen the movie and read about that community, Osho advocated full physicality and sexuality with no shame. That anything you want to do sexually is OK, so the adults said the community was freeing. (Which the Hart family photos show to some degree) What some adults learned later was that it meant the children were preyed upon in the cult. IMHO, I am linking this idea to the way the Hart children were paraded at the festivals. I do not know if there was an Osho link, but it has been stated on this thread. No, I never meant sexually abused in the home-- but unprotected in unsafe places, which IMO is equally bad.

I write liberally with the word IF and in the subjunctive tense, meaning that something may be possible. I never make statements when I don't know the facts.

 

[Shiressleuth]

No, it was my MOO and conjecture, that IF the festivals were connected to Osho and his philosophies of free love, there had been active child abuse in one major Osho community. If you've seen the movie and read about that community, Osho advocated full physicality and sexuality with no shame. That anything you want to do sexually is OK, so the adults said the community was freeing. (Which the Hart family photos show to some degree) What some adults learned later was that it meant the children were preyed upon in the cult. IMHO, I am linking this idea to the way the Hart children were paraded at the festivals. I do not know if there was an Osho link, but it has been stated on this thread. No, I never meant sexually abused in the home-- but unprotected in unsafe places, which IMO is equally bad.

I write liberally with the word IF and in the subjunctive tense, meaning that something may be possible. I never make statements when I don't know the facts.

Sorry I misunderstood there.

 

[human]

The 'long drive' , imo, was to leave the state to escape the clutches of CPS, as they had done before.

But this time, the kids were much older, less coachable, more rebellious, and the moms had a longer history of abuse accusations. I think they were finally accepting that they were not going to get away with the abuse anymore and they felt trapped.

I am wondering if the long drive had a purpose. Searching for a new job possibility, place to stay, something besides just driving and driving.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Longshot speculation - they got on the road to get away and plan, maybe find friends in California or run to Mexico. Then reality hit and they made the decision to end it. Proceed no further and no going back.

Or they had it in mind the whole time but it took them that long to finalize the details, pick a spot, and work up the nerve to do it. Perhaps one needed that time to get the other on board?

Thats what I think might have happened as well.

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[human]

Devonte had begun asking for large amounts of food. That seems like he was planning to help them all escape. And I think things had spun more out of control ing the home. The kids were now nearing young adulthood, and were not as compliant as before.

One or more of the kids may have had new injuries or bruises that would not be easily explained. It is easy to tell a story about a toddler falling down and hitting the coffee table. It is much harder to say that about a 15 or 16 yr old.

You are familiar with the area. Is it even possible to find a job there or to find a reasonably priced rental or home for sale? It would be an odd time to look. Weekend. But they did not have the luxury of not being there on the weekend.

Are there little free flyers of homes for sale like we have in Minnesota? They are available in gas stations for free. Or is this line of thinking not even in the realms of possibility?

For me, driving all of those miles, especially on a curvy road with eight people sounds like a nightmare. Sure, if you are breaking up the trip and enjoying it along the way.

But with their speed of arrival, it was not a pleasure cruise. So it seems like there should be a purpose. Even after a couple of hours of driving, I would think it was getting old.

Maybe they had some kind of &#8220;friend&#8221; situation there that did not pan out?

Since CPS did not get a hold of them, there is no reason that they could not have gone to a different state and that would be the end of it.If they could find a living situation.

 

[rosemadderlake]

These MP posters listing height & weight estimates were linked on WS thread #4.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Hart-12-Mendocino-County-26-Mar-2018-4/page35

 

[human]

How long was it that they were not seen? Sarah went to work. What did Jen do all day?

It is imteresting that neither was at home when CPS arrived. So they leave the kids homes alone. Even with the knowledge that Hannah escaped.

How does that work? LE did not say anything about finding shackles .

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://newsone.com/3790650/devonte-hart-siblings-adoption-texas/

This article explains that JH was paid for adopting from Texas. A monthly amount per child until they are 18.
$1,900 monthly going back more than a decade. $270,000 the article says that equates to in total.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

You are familiar with the area.

If you mean Mendocino area and Ft Bragg, I am. I lived there briefly. It is unbelievably remote, and I found it "dark" and depressing from all the redwoods and forest, even close to the coast. It also felt secretive, like lots of people went there to run from scrutiny. We had to get a new cellphone that worked in the area, because only one cell carrier did. (8 yrs ago) We also couldn't find a rental (thank goodness!). One rental we visited, the owner told us that the previous tenants had a meth lab in the garage. We said no thank you. There is an extreme housing shortage there, and no jobs. Houses are few and very expensive. Mostly summer residents from places like San Francisco, except there were some houses in Ft Bragg that were more modest. The few jobs are seasonal for tourism. Winter starts early and ends late. Lots of poverty, marijuana growing (legal and illegal), homelessness. I do remember meeting several lesbian couples, and there are at least a few lesbian-friendly inns on the coast. It's unbelievable beautiful. But everyone knows how often people fall off the cliffs or the cliffs give way. If they had visited before there are signs everywhere, regarding cliff danger. When they say nobody saw them, it didn't surprise me. If you wanted to run, Mendocino and Ft Bragg are ideal. The only ways in were 2-lane roads when I was there, and very dangerous twisty-turny ones. Hope that helps.

 

[Kajol85]

What is your drug use opinion based on? Why do you highly suspect not only the mom's were drug users but drugged their children as well???? Do you mean the Benadryl, because that is the only indication regarding drugs of any kind that we've heard so far....except the allegations against the bio mom(s)...

It's pretty strong words to not only accuse someone of using drugs, but to accuse them of drugging minors...so I'm very curious to hear what you base that upon...it may be an opinion, but opinions don't come out of nowhere...

1. Because I have been to many similar such festivals, and I can pretty much say that more than half are on some sort of substance, from cannabis to mushrooms, peyote MDMA, alcohol etc.
2. <modsnip>

3. Devonte hugging, crying and laying on top of men. Things like MDMA make one feel open and loving to all in a non sexual way .. maybe they were microdosing the kids to keep them happy and pliant at events? It also can make one feel overwhelmed with emotion..
4. Beloved one of the festivals they attended is tied to Osho's/Bagwhan Rajneesh cult. It's put on by former followers. They had no problem with drug use, watch Wild Wild Country on Netflix for more about Rajneeshes.

There are pictures out there if Devonte lying on top of a man while a bunch of white people sit around and look on, Don't think I can post because from SM

 

[gcharlie]

Any people with backgrounds on child development, I have some questions.

Given the isolation these kids were subjected to, for almost 7 years, how would that affect their adolescent stage?

I keep reading people posting about these kids becoming rebellious as teens, but my gut says they would not be.They have had no peer relationships, and apparent minimal interaction with peers outside of their siblings. Most of their limited interactions seem to have been with adults, and most likely they were hearing what a wonderful job their parents were doing and how loving they were towards the kids. If this is true, it would have created a very warped and conflicted sense of love within these kids.

Markis was 7 when he was adopted and 12 when he was pulled out of school. Of all the kids, he had the longest interaction and exposure to the outside world and developing relationships. Sierra, as the youngest, was still a baby when she was adopted. I'm guessing she did not attend preschool. She would have been in kindergarten when she was pulled from public school and "homeschooling began.

These kids did not have age peers to model behaviors. We have no idea if these kids watched TV or movies that might help shape their attitudes and self-images.

If the recent reports about Jen's bad year around May 2017 are true, followed by their move to Woodland where the family rarely went out, then these past two years had to be extreme isolation.

 

[waschbaer]

1. Because I have been to many similar such festivals, and I can pretty much say that more than half are on some sort of substance, from cannabis to mushrooms, peyote MDMA, alcohol etc.
2. <modsnip>
3. Devonte hugging, crying and laying on top of men. Things like MDMA make one feel open and loving to all in a non sexual way .. maybe they were microdosing the kids to keep them happy and pliant at events? It also can make one feel overwhelmed with emotion..
4. Beloved one of the festivals they attended is tied to Osho's/Bagwhan Rajneesh cult. It's put on by former followers. They had no problem with drug use, watch Wild Wild Country on Netflix for more about Rajneeshes.

There are pictures out there if Devonte lying on top of a man while a bunch of white people sit around and look on, Don't think I can post because from SM

I have seen the things you mention. I really wish we could link to the post about the massage because I think if everyone here saw it, knowing how people on WS develop a nose for predators, the verdict would be pretty unanimous.

 

[gitana1]

Shiresleuth, I really think they weren't getting ready to get out of the car, as they had "substantial" Benedryl in their systems. As far as alcohol, JH was not "drunk" in the sense of staggering drunk, at least in my opinion. She was just above the legal limit to drive. The BAC fits much better with someone who was working up courage/had lost some inhibition/however one wants to put it, vs. too drunk to find a brake in an emergency. That fits better with a BAC of 3 or something.

Remember, even at the end of 65 feet of "acceleration", there was nary a sign of even a swerve. She wasn't "falling down drunk"; she was tipsy. If she couldn't find the brake, couldn't she have at least turned the wheel?

Just my thoughts and 2 cents.

Yeah you know when you're driving 70 feet off the road.

 

[flourish]

1. Because I have been to many similar such festivals, and I can pretty much say that more than half are on some sort of substance, from cannabis to mushrooms, peyote MDMA, alcohol etc.
2. <modsnip>
3. Devonte hugging, crying and laying on top of men. Things like MDMA make one feel open and loving to all in a non sexual way .. maybe they were microdosing the kids to keep them happy and pliant at events? It also can make one feel overwhelmed with emotion..
4. Beloved one of the festivals they attended is tied to Osho's/Bagwhan Rajneesh cult. It's put on by former followers. They had no problem with drug use, watch Wild Wild Country on Netflix for more about Rajneeshes.

There are pictures out there if Devonte lying on top of a man while a bunch of white people sit around and look on, Don't think I can post because from SM

Hmm seems pretty far fetched to me...... It's presumptuous enough to think the mom's did it, but drugging the kids with MDMA? Yikes. Just not feeling it. Not saying you're wrong as I wouldn't know, but nothing has indicated that to me... I chalked to the odd affection to lack of teaching and practice with social skills, not enough social interaction, possible RAD, no appropriate models for behavior. ...

I wonder and hope they are able to do hair testing on all or at least some of the bodies.