Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[Kajol85]

Yes! It seems Jen couldn't tolerate kids at all, not even their laughter. Im now more sure than ever she adopted for the income only.

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Income and the accolades/attention at the events she liked to attend. I also think she really wanted people to control, who better than defenseless children that no one would believe because of their backgrounds?😔


I wonder if we can find out why the agency in MN closed?

Also I wonder if there is a way to petition to get the records unsealed from TX, since a crime has been committed?

 

[Kajol85]

I wonder if JH did this for either of the teeth: (They were knocked out, as I recall, in separate incidents. Hannah was very clumsy.)

http://www.tcdmadison.com/DentistryBlog/AdultToothLoss

According to Jen. I don't belive for one second she fell and knocked her two front teeth out. My guess is Jen pulled them out as punishment. Sadistic woman she was.

 

[gcharlie]

According to Jen. I don't belive for one second she fell and knocked her two front teeth out. My guess is Jen pulled them out as punishment. Sadistic woman she was.

This is not the first time I've seen this kind of opinion.

Anyone here with dental expertise? As in, how hard would it be for a person without training to extract permanent teeth intact with the roots?

My sense is without the proper tool and training, the average person is likely to break the tooth while trying to extract it, but I'd like more knowledgeable people to weigh in.

 

[ReadyorNot]

Right? Just absolute laziness and shoddy work

Its human nature to want to assign blame in a tragedy but as sad and horrible as it is I don't think CPS failed these kids. Sometimes evil prevails.

 

[enelram]

Those poor, poor children. I'll bet it was just a matter of time til the older children rebelled and outted these wicked women. Unless they were so weak and emaciated, they would eventually speak out and act out. This was probably what Hannah and Devonte started when they moved to Wa. What a horrible life these poor kids endured.

 

[gitana1]

Quoting myself bc I can’t edit on tapatalk [emoji34]

I’m not saying I agree with the doctors actions (or lack of action), because I think she certainly should have made a bigger deal that not one, but SIX kids weren’t on the growth chart.

And they were not all related kids.

So five of six not even on growth chart.

The kids are from two sets of families.

Multiple allegations of food withholding.

How is this not flagged immediately?

I have my thoughts. They were given a pass and their kids were not.

While I can understand to a degree the initial reluctance of the Hart’s associates to believe the abuse stories and that the crash was deliberate, I hope the recently released documents will rip the blinders off. It’s hard to admit you were fooled, but what went on behind (and not so behind) the scenes was brutal. No peace, love and hugs in the lives of those poor kids. Just evil torture. Time to stop defending them.
(Not addressed to anyone on the thread)

Yes I really want to know what those people think now. Come on.

Okay, I know I am posting alot, but those crazies actually said in the Oregon CPS report one reason "LEE" didn't work out back in MN was because she used WIRE HANGERS against Jen's wishes? MOMMIE DEAREST craziness!!! Those case workers were ASLEEP at the wheel and the kids paid the price.

Exactly what I thought! Mommie Dearest. Ugh.

It is not a thing on the West Coast. Like not at all.

Give everything else about what we have learned, Hannah's assessment of her "mothers" were, sadly, accurate and on point. These children were nothing but belongings to the Hart women, I feel sick thinking of what they endured, all under a pseudo guise of peace and love.

Yeah it's very, very rare to hear sir and ma'am out here. It absolutely is another red flag for me given how it fits the whole picture and how terrified the child was.

Jen wasn't a mother. She was a militant and sadisitic prison guard.

By the way, does anyone have a link to that part? I haven't read that.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why the focus on an international registry for abuse cases? Oregon State KNEW about six abuse allegations in Minnesota, with two of them, I believe, being what they call "founded" and one having resulted in SH being arrested. This was in addition to the TWO separate complaints filed in Oregon. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW. THEY KNEW.

But Washington was the last one investigating and they did not know. The only reason Oregon found out about Minnesota is because they saw Minnesota plates and traced it.

But yes, Oregon knew and despite such a detailed investigation, it stalled. The kids were failed. The "mothers" kept getting the benefit of the doubt at the expense of their kids.

And now they're dead.

I feel this impotent anger that those monsters will never be held accountable and never know how their nasty secrets and the truth of how evil they really are has been exposed for all to see.

 

[human]

In that case I'd think "people" would be the group whose parenting skills and ability to recognize abuse you're questioning, or "American people" - not just people from one specific group that the Harts fit into, like small-town folk or South Dakotans or lesbians or ....

I'd guess a lot of these people didn't actually witness immediate examples of abuse, and the Harts were able to explain away the more nebulous signs such as physical size. They seem to have been able to control their inappropriate behavior and affect in public, as many abusers do. In a more intimate setting, with a smaller audience, such as in Alexandra's house, things got dicier. The only incident I'm aware of in public was Ciera being berated for being selfish with the food - and that friend seems to have questioned it.

I for one wish that their estranged family members, who evidently had some disagreements with them about parenting methods, had dropped a dime on them. But that assumes they saw something concrete, as opposed to merely getting a bad vibe. In the end, no one who is not a professional childcare worker is to blame for this, except the Hart women.

JMO.

Their defense was and is after the reports came out. I was talking about those specific people,

I have not read anything about others defending them.

 

[gitana1]

I agree that the caseworkers preparing that report really tried to document an alarming history, looking to prior states of residence. It reads as if MN was also very concerned about the children.


Dana DeKalb's father reported the incident of Hannah running to the neighbors to CPS, but WA did closed the investigation after learning that the incident had taken place three month's prior and there were no other known incidents. I'm not sure if WA would have handled it differently if they knew of the prior history. One would hope so, but it also points to a fundamental flaw in CPS.


That flaw is for the large part, CPS is relying on others to report abuse, which will then be investigated. When you have children isolated like these kids were, this system breaks down. No teachers to get familiar with the children on a day to day basis, being able to observe and monitor them. No friends to talk to, who might then tell their parents (this is how my mother found out a neighbor was sexually abusing his daughters). Being shut inside so that neighbors have little information.


I did find it interesting that the OR CPS report failed to mention that the children were not registered as home schooled. This should have been another red flag where the mothers were deliberately attempting to avoid any kind of monitoring. They repeated this in WA as well.


CPS needs to recognize this weakness and develop improved monitoring and follow up for cases like this. IMO, this family should have been identified as high risk and instead of closing the case, there should have been further monitoring. As we have seen, the consequences of not doing so were deadly.

I agree. Of course unless they have evidence, CPS has no right to demand an interview again or any follow up and the parents could simply ignore them with no repercussions. I'm not sure how that could be remedied.

The lapse in time between the initial contact from cps and the doctor visits and cps home visits also allowed them to feed the kids and have them appear healthier. I'm surprised they let them delay the home visits for such a long period. Maybe that's not unusual?

I don't know if it's a matter of "letting". They didn't really have a choice. What can they do except continue to try to reach out? If the kids were in school they'd interview them there. But CPS was reliant on the parents to be available for interviews. Remember, they just took the kids and took off and weren't around.

 

[human]

In that case I'd think "people" would be the group whose parenting skills and ability to recognize abuse you're questioning, or "American people" - not just people from one specific group that the Harts fit into, like small-town folk or South Dakotans or lesbians or ....

I'd guess a lot of these people didn't actually witness immediate examples of abuse, and the Harts were able to explain away the more nebulous signs such as physical size. They seem to have been able to control their inappropriate behavior and affect in public, as many abusers do. In a more intimate setting, with a smaller audience, such as in Alexandra's house, things got dicier. The only incident I'm aware of in public was Ciera being berated for being selfish with the food - and that friend seems to have questioned it.

I for one wish that their estranged family members, who evidently had some disagreements with them about parenting methods, had dropped a dime on them. But that assumes they saw something concrete, as opposed to merely getting a bad vibe. In the end, no one who is not a professional childcare worker is to blame for this, except the Hart women.

JMO.

Their defense was and is after the reports came out. I was talking about those specific people,

I have not read anything about others defending them.

Here are a couple of examples that can be posted . Otherwise, looking at FB “friends “ tells what some think .

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...hink-jen-and-sarah-should-idolized/476132002/

“Their parenting and their partnership was beautiful,” Rosser said. “These children came from scary, scary home situations [before the adoption]. Not only neglectful but scary – drugs and guns. And to have them turn out this way, everybody who’s met those children loved them deeply and it’s because of Jen and Sarah. It’s because of their love. You can’t have a happy, smiling, abused child that doesn’t get love. There’s absolutely no abuse.”



http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...others-amid-evidence-of-abuse-murder-suicide/

Based on social media posts, it appears that many of the family’s friends are sharing a counter-narrative to police and media reports strongly indicating the children were victimized, possibly for years, by one or both of their mothers. Several of Sarah Hart’s Facebook friends have posted memorial tribute photos to the family, with little or no reference in the original posts or the comments to the abuse allegations or the determination that Jennifer intentionally drove the SUV off a cliff.

————————


these amazing kids were all adopted from the same horrible situation, save one boy who was the eldest. these angels came to these two amazing mothers completely by chance. miracles happen. tragedy happens. consider the legacy they left behind. there is another side of story. https://twitter.com/callynt/statu

 

[Momoffourboys]

Do you think Jen started out with the idea of murder suicide?

I’m in the minority (or only one) who still thinks this was an accident brought on by rage/alcohol.

 

[LeighB]

gitana1, the story where Hannah said "yes, ma'am" while hiding between the furniture in the upstairs bedroom at the Dekalb's was told by Dana Dekalb on Dr. Oz.

I haven't read any article stating that the Hart children were adopted and then had no follow up, or that the adoption agency let anyone vanish. Maybe I missed it, though. Do you have a link or did I misunderstand?

I think it's logical deduction. If Texas was checking regularly on the kids they were paying monthly for, they would have found the abuse arrest & conviction, the 2 founded & 6 undetermined accusations in MN, and the 2 (3?) people reporting them for food deprivation in Oregon.

I for one wish that their estranged family members, who evidently had some disagreements with them about parenting methods.

That's Jen's story. But given her history of lying to given plausible reasons for things that might disturb questioners, this may or may not be true.

 

[human]

I’m in the minority (or only one) who still thinks this was an accident brought on by rage/alcohol.

I am guessing the card left by CPS started the journey.

Do you think they packed and brought clothes and camping gear?

What do you think the purpose was of the drive to CA?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Income and the accolades/attention at the events she liked to attend. I also think she really wanted people to control, who better than defenseless children that no one would believe because of their backgrounds?[emoji17]


I wonder if we can find out why the agency in MN closed?

Also I wonder if there is a way to petition to get the records unsealed from TX, since a crime has been committed?

Maybe if an attorney got involved asking for a court order on behalf of Devonte and his siblings to investigate whether the adoption agency exercised due diligence in placement and follow up care maybe the records could be unsealed. I dont know though.

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[debbiegarcia36]

This is not the first time I've seen this kind of opinion.

Anyone here with dental expertise? As in, how hard would it be for a person without training to extract permanent teeth intact with the roots?

My sense is without the proper tool and training, the average person is likely to break the tooth while trying to extract it, but I'd like more knowledgeable people to weigh in.

This was discussed thoroughly in the first couple of threads.

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[human]

The oldest boy, nine at the time , that was a sib to Devonte and the others, must have been devastated when his sibs were chosen to go live a golden life and he was left behind.

I hope he gets therapy . All of those years of grieving. And now he has another reason to grieve

 

[waschbaer]

^^^^^ Is SH's right hand deformed in that photo??

I noticed in the birthday video that she has markedly hypermobile joints. Her elbows extend well past the 180 degree line when she holds her arms out. That's probably why her hand looks odd or contorted, here.

 

[Kajol85]

Its human nature to want to assign blame in a tragedy but as sad and horrible as it is I don't think CPS failed these kids. Sometimes evil prevails.

^^^^

No way. CPS and LE failed. There were so many chances to look deeper and take a closer look. Evil prevailed because we allowed it to.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I am guessing the card left by CPS started the journey.

Do you think they packed and brought clothes and camping gear?

What do you think the purpose was of the drive to CA?

I, certainly, believe they were evading CPS. I just don’t believe they wanted to end it all and kill six innocent children and two dogs. I may be naive. But I refuse to believe it was intentional.

 

[SarahW]

Jen Hart drove over the cliff on purpose. Photographs of the scene make it perfectly clear she took them over deliberately. And, you have proof enough of her evil and her guilt.

 

[gcharlie]

I am guessing the card left by CPS started the journey.

Do you think they packed and brought clothes and camping gear?

What do you think the purpose was of the drive to CA?

I can't even begin to guess if they packed and brought clothes and camping gear.

As with the July 2013 CPS call in OR, it seems the immediate reaction by Jen and Sarah was to flee. Seems to me they felt they needed time to figure out the situation and not be caught unprepared by CPS. It took more than a full month for Oregon officials to finally be able to schedule a contact visit with the family.

No way to know if Cali was the original destination or not. They first drove northwest into Oregon and then headed south. Who knows why? They may have panicked about CPS authorities in both WA and OR, so headed to Cali.I don't think clear heads were prevailing at that time.

I don't believe Jen left the home thinking they were all going to die. But as the weekend wore on, I think she saw fewer and fewer options.The gig was up with them being parents unless they were constantly on the run.