Canada - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018 *guilty*

[bluesneakers]

Ontario government to investigate jail leak about accused van attacker Alek Minassian

The Ontario government has launched an investigation into a leak from a Toronto jail related to a man accused of killing 10 people and injuring 16 others in a van attack earlier this week.

The investigation was triggered by a Toronto Sun article about accused mass killer Alek Minassian that is accompanied by a photograph of an inmate the newspaper claims is that of the 25-year-old inside the Toronto South Detention Centre.

A spokesman for the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services says publicly sharing photos or information about an inmate is unacceptable conduct.

"It is not appropriate for the ministry to publicly comment on any individuals in its custody," Andrew Morrison said in an email.

"For security reasons, it is not appropriate for anyone in the ministry to publicly disclose specific locations of inmates."

Daniel Brown, a criminal defence lawyer, said the leak could play a role at a trial.

"This type of information could significantly prejudice an accused person's fair trial rights and it may undermine his evidence at trial," Brown said.

Not sure how trustworthy these witnesses are, but..

Accused van killer says in jail that he 'wanted to be shot,' witness says

The 25-year-old Richmond Hill man told several people that he had researched being taken out by police after committing a serious crime.

In jail, he reiterated his commitment to the cause — a copycat of a murder in 2014 in California in which Rodger killed six people and wounded 14, blaming others for his still being a virgin.

One person who spoke with Minassian in the jail said this incident allegedly happened “because he hates the people who deny him sex” and that he “feels no remorse.”

But while he complained about his lack of female company, he didn’t complain about his childhood or home life. He was “asked if he had a good upbringing and if he would change anything in his life” and he said “he had a good childhood” and “wouldn’t change anything.”

 

[JDG]

re post #317

Francine Pelletier is not correct in that AM is 'white' as in caucasian.

He is of Armenian ancestry and Armenian people are either from European or Turkish lineage or both.
They are from a part of the world where Turks, Europeans and Southern Europeans all lived together for centuries, with some Asian genetics as well.

His lineage is not at the root of this problem, no matter how she wishes to spin it. Just saying......

 

[bluesneakers]

re post #317

Francine Pelletier is not correct in that AM is 'white' as in caucasian.

He is of Armenian ancestry and Armenian people are either from European or Turkish lineage or both.
They are from a part of the world where Turks, Europeans and Southern Europeans all lived together for centuries, with some Asian genetics as well.

His lineage is not at the root of this problem, no matter how she wishes to spin it. Just saying......

That doesn't mean the rest of what she said isn't true. I don't believe that was her "spin" on the issue - she had more insight that was correct in addressing the issue. I agree his lineage isn't the root of the problem. Misogyny, toxic masculinity, jealousy, and men believing they are entitled to women's bodies are the root of the problem.

 

[JDG]

Thanks dotr.

I didn't think Lepine was caucasian either but didn't have the time to google him.

Seems Francine Pelletier is incorrect all round.

I have just googled Marc Lepine and he was also NOT middle class by any means.

His childhood was filled with instability and violence from the father, when he was present.

His parents separated when he was approx 7 yrs old and their assets were seized as the father failed to make payments of any sort.

If that is middle class, I will eat MY chocolate hat. Wish the CBC did some basic checking of fact, eh?

We know nothing of AMs family situation so cannot comment.

Must say, I have no idea why Ms Pelletier feels that these events are comparable but if she must, she could at least have a basic understanding of the people of whom she speaks.

 

[bluesneakers]

Tiptoeing here, but not too sure about Mark Lepine fitting the "white"stereotype either, he is half Algerian.
from bluesneaker's link..
imo, speculation.

I thought it would be worthwhile to read what she said because she was on Lepine's list. I don't understand how being mistaken about one thing (though overall she is correct - we live in a patriarchy and white hetero men are at the top of the ladder) means the rest of what she said should be ignored. I think her main point was we can't live in denial any longer. We have to tackle this issue. We need to pay attention.

This article doesn't mention race so maybe it's acceptable?

If incels’ violent misogyny had a role in Toronto, we mustn’t downplay it

Reporter Shelley Page, then just 24, was sent to the scene. In a soul-searching piece written on the 25th anniversary of the massacre, Page reflected: “Looking back, I fear I sanitised the event of its feminist anger then infantilised and diminished the victims.” She remembers respected Canadian journalists refusing to admit that the massacre was an act of violence against women.

She describes her editors’ worry that, as a woman, she wouldn’t be objective in her reporting. She recalls racing around trying to find details to humanise the murderer; she critiques the media’s drive to find any reason besides misogyny for the tragedy.

It’s vital that we keep feminist analysis central to the conversation surrounding the Yonge Street massacre. Why, when men tell us that hatred for women is the root of their violence, don’t we believe them?

The École Polytechnique murderer, the Isla Vista murderer, the Yonge Street killer: these were misogynists by their own evidence. If we refuse to look for the common denominator, if these events are always going to be framed in terms of the perpetrator’s mental health or childhood trauma (which, yes, I know, are also often factors), then we can’t confront the radicalisation at the root of it all.

 

[JDG]

I wish the 'powers that be' had the intestinal fortitude to call this horrible event what it was......terrorism.

One person setting out to terrorize as many people as possible at one time.

The first thing on the news was that it WAS NOT terrorism. Really??

We are being fed a sterilized tale here, while how many peoples lives have been ruined??

Yes, 10 dead and 14 injured but what about all of their loved ones/friends etc who are deeply affected by the lose of them? What of their lives to come?

What of the people who work/live/play in that area and forever more will be upset walking the area?

AM wanted to be shot, he failed miserably at that......but he also wanted to cause terror and there, he succeeded.

Now, LE and politicos, call it what it is. We have broad shoulders, we can handle it.

 

[dotr]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...r-those-killed-and-injured-in-van-attack.html

[h=1]Thousands expected to attend vigil for those killed and injured in van attack[/h]The City of Toronto and interfaith groups are co-hosting a gathering today at Mel Lastman Square in North York.

The City of Toronto and interfaith groups are co-hosting a vigil tonight at Mel Lastman Square in North York, to remember those people who died or were injured when a van careened down a Yonge St. sidewalk.

The vigil starts at 7 p.m. and those in attendance are expected to include Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Premier Kathleen Wynne and Mayor John Tory.

 

[bluesneakers]

Is anyone watching? Here's a link to live video:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/torontostrong-vigil-1.4640446

 

[ldlager]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...me-toxic-masculinity-for-torontos-van-attack/

finally, a balanced opinion written by an actual scientist with real world experience in this area

 

[BooBooTheFool]

Misogyny and entitlement are the real roots of the problem. Young men are becoming radicalized online.

Here;s an NPR article about the incel movement. I used to just look at what was going on in the incel sub on reddit and i'm not surprised that sub was banned because it was violent, hateful misogynistic stuff with a tinge of racism (frequent topics were about why rape of "roasties" should be legal). They moved on to a new sub with the same old thing. Roasties is slang for *advertiser censored* because they think when a woman has a lot of sex her labia become like a roast beef sandwich because their only knowledge of women comes from *advertiser censored* and toxic beliefs already present in mainstream society.
Elliot Rodger was an incel and also a racist who was angry that black men and asian men had sex with white women.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/29/6067...nline-community-behind-the-toronto-van-attack

On what the incel community is
It's [an] online subculture of young men who feel very frustrated with their sexual and romantic lives. They get together online to kind of talk about this, but the way that they express that isn't through working through their feelings or talking through their issues. Instead, they move toward a very virulent misogyny, and they spend a lot of their time engaging in really violent ideation about the horrible things that they want to do to women and to sexually successful men. And they venerate a lot of these violent figures who have come before, especially Elliot Rodger, who murdered a number of people in 2014 on the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara. And they see him as a kind of hero, and they talk about replicating that violence. It's quite a disturbing part of the Internet.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...me-toxic-masculinity-for-torontos-van-attack/

finally, a balanced opinion written by an actual scientist with real world experience in this area

From the link:

“The issue is not about sex, or even sexual entitlement. In my experience working clinically with incarcerated violent and sexual offenders, these crimes are instances of antisociality manifesting as hatred toward women.”

Yep. And they can often identify as incels and display, by definition, a toxic form of masculinity. It is also definitely antisocial behavior. It’s not one or the other. It’s both. It’s an antisocial, toxic Mickey Mouse Club of sorts where the antisocial behavior manifests as very real displays of hate toward women. IMO

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[nuff]

Must say, I have no idea why Ms Pelletier feels that these events are comparable but if she must, she could at least have a basic understanding of the people of whom she speaks.

Because both events created horror and induced fear and were rooted in misogynism. And as she was directly affected, I believe she has every right to voice her opinion. And Marc Lepine had a Franco-Canadian mother and an Algerian father (actual name Gamil Gharbi.) Guess we could argue about whether he was Caucasian, but what's the point? (That took me all of 30 seconds to google.)

 

[human]

https://jezebel.com/saint-elliot-ro...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2018-04-28

Alek Minassian cited Elliot Rodger as a kind of hero before he drove a rented van onto a busy Toronto sidewalk, killing 10 people on Monday. “All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!” Minassian wrote in a now-deleted Facebook post.

 

[Elley Mae]

The Daily Mail had some clips from the Incel Reddit group. These men did not want to go out with women of their own level of attractiveness, whom they called 'pigs'. They wanted the prettiest girls and they had just as much hate for the men who had social skills better than theirs, who dated them.

And so much emphasis is put on his Aspergers or Austism, why are girls who suffer the same conditions not out there murdering and setting up hate groups?

In reference to last sentence.

Why are Boys More Likely to Have Autism?

https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisedu.org/why-are-boys-more-likely-to-have-autism/

 

[angelainwi]

Weekend Read: For incels, it's not about sex. It's about women.

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/05/04/weekend-read-incels-its-not-about-sex-its-about-women

 

[dotr]

Weekend Read: For incels, it's not about sex. It's about women.

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/05/04/weekend-read-incels-its-not-about-sex-its-about-women

Making these statistics very concerning, imo.
https://www.thestar.com/news/insigh...the-gender-imbalances-of-india-and-china.html

May 5 2018
[h=1]Too many men: Examining the gender imbalances of India and China[/h]Decades of selective births have left the two countries with a delicate issue: What to do with 70 million lonely men?

Nothing like this has happened in human history. A combination of cultural preferences, government decree and modern medical technology in the world’s two largest countries has created a gender imbalance on a continental scale. Men outnumber women by 70 million in China and India.

The consequences of having too many men, now coming of age, are far-reaching: Beyond an epidemic of loneliness, the imbalance distorts labour markets, drives up savings rates in China and drives down consumption, artificially inflates certain property values, and parallels increases in violent crime, trafficking or prostitution in a growing number of locations. Those consequences are not confined to China and India, but reach deep into their Asian neighbours and distort the economies of Europe and the Americas, as well. Barely recognized, the ramifications of too many men are only starting to come into sight.

“In the future, there will be millions of men who can’t marry, and that could pose a very big risk to society,” warns Li Shuzhuo, a leading demographer at Xi’an Jiaotong University.

Out of China’s population of 1.4 billion, there are nearly 34 million more males than females — the equivalent of almost the entire population of California, or Poland, who will never find wives and only rarely have sex

 

[JDG]

The charges have been upped to 16 charges of attempted murder along with the 10 charges of murder.

His lawyer wouldn't speak about how he's doing in jail, about the rumour of threats to the family or the family in general.

He did address the issue of terrorism and said there is no indication whatsoever of terrorism in this case.

 

[dotr]

Suspect in Toronto van attack that left 10 people dead to appear in court
TORONTO - The man accused of driving a van down a busy Toronto street, killing 10 people and injuring more than a dozen others, is expected to appear in court today."

"Minassian appeared in court by video in early May when the Crown and his lawyer agreed to adjourn until September due to the large volume of disclosure involved in the case.

Police said shortly after the attack that they hadn't identified a motive, but the evidence didn't meet the threshold for terrorism charges".

 

[dotr]

Update.
Case of North York van attack suspect put over to November
"The case is set to return to court on Nov. 1, though that date could change if the Attorney General approves a request made by the Crown to move the case to a higher court without a preliminary inquiry, Bytensky said.

But Bytensky said it was still unlikely the case would proceed to trial any time soon.

“Everybody still needs to be able to get prepared,” he said. “That really doesn't change whether we're going straight to Superior Court or whether we're staying with the Ontario Court of Justice for a longer period.”

 

[dotr]

Long article about '' Incels" with many references to the accused van attack suspect, AM.
Jan 27 2019
Why incels are a 'real and present threat' for Canadians | CBC News

"In April 2018, Alek Minassian allegedly drove a van into pedestrians in Toronto, killing 10 and injuring 16 others. Before the attack, a post appeared on Minassian's Facebook account that said "the Incel Rebellion has already begun."

"Involuntary celibates or incels are an online brotherhood of men who say they are unsuccessful in their romantic attempts with women.

Incels interact in forums online, like 4chan, Reddit and a few public incel boards, and even on popular social media platforms including Facebook and YouTube. They often express extreme feelings of misogyny and hatred.

In the worst cases, their online misogyny turns to violent fantasies, where many online encourage rape, violence and in some cases, killing.

Experts interviewed by The Fifth Estate have identified 120 instances of extreme violence in Canada by right-wing groups, including incels, in the past 30 years. This is compared to only seven by Islamist-inspired extremists.

Authorities in Canada and the U.S. are often quick to call these incidents "lone wolf" attacks, but criminologists and sociologists are sounding the alarm on incels and other growing internet subcultures that promote extreme violence. They say the threat posed by these groups isn't being taken seriously enough.

"These people are extraordinarily dangerous," Mike Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., told The Fifth Estate. "As soon as you have a suicidal, disoriented male, all bets are off in terms of what they're capable of doing.... Many are suicidal and some are homicidal.

"This [group] has an organization to it."
he Fifth Estate spent months infiltrating incel forums to get a sense of what goes on in these dark corners of the internet. Self-proclaimed incels often blame society and their genetics for not being successful in romantic endeavours. Using the term "involuntary," experts say, indicates that incels have little self-awareness.

Incels believe women owe them sex, and in some cases people active on incel forums advocate for government-sanctioned girlfriends and sexual encounters.

"[Incel] became a religion of sorts, and it's a recent ideology," Arntfield of Western University, said. "These are people who've found each other online and can ruminate over what they can do."

The ideology of incels focuses on the idea that attractive women, known as "Stacys" in incel terminology, are shallow and only attracted to "Chads" — men who are hyper-muscular and highly attractive."