MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, fatally shot while jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #1

[darring21]

According to this article, about 70 deaths per year in the U.S. of adult children killed by a parent.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/07/health/filicide-parents-killing-kids-stats-trnd/index.html

 

[tnith]

That does sound like a typical stalker--obsessed with his image of a woman, an image that is completely disconnected from reality. That would fit more closely with someone who had not dated Ally but wanted to or someone who had dated her briefly than with a long-term boyfriend. That's not to say that your scenario is the only possibility.

So many possibilities, in fact that it pays to employ any number of tactics to divulge more info.

Especially when looking into history, what may support which theories and contemplating what may disprove... what it is they say, turning over rocks to see what craws beneath?

I wonder what Combatmedic2121 knows regarding their place of employment; contracting companies which supply workforce... or even how Ally & his shifts overlapping/ending times may have been seen by others.

Done thinking, just sitting back now.

 

[NJcares]

Perhaps this was mentioned early on, and if so, I apologize: I have been reading some of the older articles on Alexandra’s murder and came across something that I don’t remember seeing before:

“The case is being investigated by Michigan State Police, but the initial 911 calls were received by the Oakland County Sheriff's Department 911 operators.

One of the calls is from a man who says Brueger was laying in his yard and she had been shot a couple times.

The man came to see what was happening after hearing shots.

‘I was down at the pond and I heard bullets,’ is how he describes what happened.

He also said he thought she had gotten out of her [it sounds like the witness says “A car” in the recording, IMO] car and someone shot her. He then tells the operator that he has to go and help her, but that he cannot take his phone with him. He does keep the phone link open at the request of the operator.’” (BBM)

https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/oa...aying-in-my-yard-just-got-shot-a-couple-times

The article is dated Aug 1, 2016. You can listen to the 911 call at the above link.

I wonder how sure the witness was about Alexandra possibly getting out of a car (he sounds pretty sure of it in the 911 recording, IMO). And could this be one of the reasons why LE have said (“I think it would be irresponsible to say that it couldn't be random because it's a possibility, but I think from what we've found on scene and some of our gut instincts, and past incidents, she knew who her attacker was," MSP Lt. Michael Shaw said)
she likely knew her killer (i.e., she wouldn't have gotten into a car with a stranger)?
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/msp-confident-murdered-jogger-knew-her-attacker

If so, perhaps the killer stopped Alexandra, forced her into their car with the shotgun, and when she tried to flee (which they probably were not expecting), they killed her.

Interesting scenario that I hadn't considered. Maybe she was abducted while running in a more rural part and managed to flee when she saw the house. But sadly, the killer shot her before she made it for help. :thinking:


Here is where she collapsed. I forgot that much of fish road runs along the park there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...!1s0x88236164bddef82f:0x228abb4aac2a27e?gl=us

 

[Robemcdo]

Plenty of families have toxic relationships within, but they don't all end up with a family member being shot to death like an animal. While I don't like to think that a parent would kill an only child, I suppose anything is possible.

That said, why would Ally's parent/s kill their only daughter? Most parents want their children to eventually marry and have families of their own. As an only child, Ally was Franz and Nikki's only link to the continuation of the family. Even if Ally's children wouldn't necessarily carry on the Brueger family name, Ally's children would still be Brueger progeny. I simply can't reconcile either of Ally's parents wanting to murder their only daughter.

Not everyone loves their kids .
Especially 31 year olds still living at home .
Likely a paid hit but parents by far the most likely suspect .



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[Ozoner]

I'm not convinced that Ally's killer is male. There very well might have been a jealous nursing colleague or competitive student in college classes. Ally was quite an accomplished young woman, and it wouldn't be far-fetched to consider that she had a female rival who went off the deep end.

A female seems unlikely but it's happened before. Wes, was any other woman trying to come between you and Alex?

I know I've seen it said in the media and on here that Alexandra knew her killer. I'm not entirely convinced. I'm about 50-50 on that point.

The use of a shotgun is what causes me to have questions. Was this premeditated? The use of a shotgun, to me anyway, seems to make that more likely than someone who just reached into the glove box and pulled out a handgun. Was he on the road specifically to shoot her or just anyone for a 'thrill' kill? I can't see an abduction that went bad - it's too difficult to keep a gun on someone while driving with a shotgun. (Yeah, he could have forced her in the trunk but I still don't believe it is likely.) A shotgun doesn't leave a bullet that might be matched to the gun like a handgun or rifle - but they left the empty cases at the scene. The firing pin, extractor and ejector marks can be matched to the gun. That was careless, not to mention they only made one hit out of 4 or 5 shots. That was also risky riding with shotgun - probably laying across the passenger seat - while driving down the road when there is no hunting season in progress. It can't hidden like a handgun. This person just seems to be bold and reckless.

There are bold and reckless sexual predators out there, like the one who abducted Danielle Stislicki from her workplace (and who had access to his wife's white sedan, and who is serving a 16-year sentence for attempting to rape and murder a jogger, and who has a possible connection to the hospital where Alex worked).

Not everyone loves their kids .
Especially 31 year olds still living at home .
Likely a paid hit but parents by far the most likely suspect .

A great many parents don't love their kids, so I wouldn't rule out Franz altogether. But did he have access to a white sedan? If not, then it's difficult to see him as a viable suspect. The fuzz seem pretty sure that the white car was involved.

As for a hit, what kind of hitman uses a shotgun and misses three out of four times? (I can't believe anyone could stop and take aim and do that poorly; I think the shooter must have been giving chase and shooting haphazardly.) Your hitman theory seems pretty far fetched.

 

[Vaccine]

I'm afraid I'm not convinced by the parent theory. Its just a bit too much - the unfolding of info like Franz not being convinced Alex was his child, wanting to divorce Nikki. Why didn't he just leave? And why the trip to Germany if he couldn't abide his so-called child? I'm not that concerned about the media coverage and interviews - the media always edit so not mentioning the lie detector test results might simply reflect that the parents were fine - so no news there. Whilst failing the test is significant and relevant.

And as others have said, cold or emotionally messed up parents exist - but they rarely kill their children.

I think the compelling need to have an answer and persuade others of it, might be driving this theory. And the LE have clearly not found compelling evidence to make arrests.

Though I do find the lack of friends and family speaking up a very deafening silence. Maybe she didn't have any or was she isolated from them? Maybe she needed to get home to her parents for more space and freedom and to be further away from her past?

I'm afraid I am more inclined to look at a couple of other scenarios:
1) a controlling ex partner
2) involvement in other relationships/affairs which might have caused jealousy to other partners - the purported trip to Florida
3) an attempted abduction by a stranger mistaking her for a child.

Sorry if I cause any offence. I have no axe to grind - just trying to weigh it up objectively. I understand that a lot of people are hurting very badly - the loss must be terrible. Sadly I think we will never find out and justice will not be done.

 

[Robemcdo]

A female seems unlikely but it's happened before. Wes, was any other woman trying to come between you and Alex?


There are bold and reckless sexual predators out there, like the one who abducted Danielle Stislicki from her workplace (and who had access to his wife's white sedan, and who is serving a 16-year sentence for attempting to rape and murder a jogger, and who has a possible connection to the hospital where Alex worked).



A great many parents don't love their kids, so I wouldn't rule out Franz altogether. But did he have access to a white sedan? If not, then it's difficult to see him as a viable suspect. The fuzz seem pretty sure that the white car was involved.

As for a hit, what kind of hitman uses a shotgun and misses three out of four times? (I can't believe anyone could stop and take aim and do that poorly; I think the shooter must have been giving chase and shooting haphazardly.) Your hitman theory seems pretty far fetched.

We must keep in mind that there are two aspects of murder . The killing part and the not getting caught part

Having the shooter walk up beside and shoot in the side of the head removes about 99% of suspects

Family is the only one with motive. That’s normally how these play out


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[Spellbound]

Vaccine, that was a very good post. Please keep sharing. I have a feeling LE knows much more than we have been told.

We must keep in mind that there are two aspects of murder . The killing part and the not getting caught part

Having the shooter walk up beside and shoot in the side of the head removes about 99% of suspects

Family is the only one with motive. That’s normally how these play out


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Bolded by me: How so? Family definitely is not the only one with a motive. There are a lot of other possibilities.

a disgruntled lover
a rejected suitor
an angry co-worker
a jealous woman
a drive-by shoot for fun at any “target" easily available
a relative (could be several reasons but none make sense to me yet)
An angry home-owner

We probably can come up with several more ...

Robemcdo, are you connected to anyone in this case? You seem very set on the parents as prime suspects. Do you have “inside info” that can’t be shared here? (Not asking you to post anything we are not allowed here!)

 

[black_squirrel]

We must keep in mind that there are two aspects of murder . The killing part and the not getting caught part

Having the shooter walk up beside and shoot in the side of the head removes about 99% of suspects

I am not sure if I follow. Ally was not shot in the head. Her murder does not look like a professional hit. But I suppose it could still a murder for hire. But the hired killer would be
an amateur, not a professional. How do people hire professional killers? They are not in the
phone book. Based on watching real crime TV shows, I think usually one seeks out an acquaintance who moves in criminal circles and ask if they know someone for the "job".
Chances are that the hired killer may be a seasoned criminal, but not necessarily an experienced hit man. I don't think this is murder-for-hire, but I could imagine the following scenario:

Someone gives the hired killer instructions on when and where Ally will be running. A person
hides in an ambush and shoots her as she passes by. I think the killer (whether hired or not)
perhaps did not travel on Fish Lake road. I think it would be possible to approach Fish Lake
road through the woods, without being seen.

Family is the only one with motive. That’s normally how these play out


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When a woman is murdered, with >50% probability it is the (ex-)husband/boyfriend/etc. I looked
at some statistics (I don't remember the sources but I could get it if anyone really insists)
and about 1000 women are killed by spouses each year. So it is no surprise that people first think of Wes Sutherland as the likely suspect (how unfairly that may be). As mentioned earlier,
"only" 70 adults are killed by their parents each year. About 250 parents are killed by their kids each year.

So you are right, if with family you include boy/girl friends, spouses etc.

 

[always reading]

I'm afraid I'm not convinced by the parent theory. Its just a bit too much - the unfolding of info like Franz not being convinced Alex was his child, wanting to divorce Nikki. Why didn't he just leave? And why the trip to Germany if he couldn't abide his so-called child? I'm not that concerned about the media coverage and interviews - the media always edit so not mentioning the lie detector test results might simply reflect that the parents were fine - so no news there. Whilst failing the test is significant and relevant.

And as others have said, cold or emotionally messed up parents exist - but they rarely kill their children.

I think the compelling need to have an answer and persuade others of it, might be driving this theory. And the LE have clearly not found compelling evidence to make arrests.

Though I do find the lack of friends and family speaking up a very deafening silence. Maybe she didn't have any or was she isolated from them? Maybe she needed to get home to her parents for more space and freedom and to be further away from her past?

I'm afraid I am more inclined to look at a couple of other scenarios:
1) a controlling ex partner
2) involvement in other relationships/affairs which might have caused jealousy to other partners - the purported trip to Florida
3) an attempted abduction by a stranger mistaking her for a child.

Sorry if I cause any offence. I have no axe to grind - just trying to weigh it up objectively. I understand that a lot of people are hurting very badly - the loss must be terrible. Sadly I think we will never find out and justice will not be done.

I agree with all of this. If the parents did want to kill her, couldn't they have done it in a different way? I mean she lived with them. There are much easier ways to kill her, besides doing it in broad daylight while running. I'm just not buying the parents theory.

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[black_squirrel]

You have a crossbow? OK, I'll admit that I am a naive Canadian, and we really aren't into weapons of any kind, generally. And then you hunt with your dad's guns. This implies that you are comfortable generally with killing weapons. Again I say this as a Canadian who doesn't really know anyone who has weapons that kill. Hence, it just may be a cultural difference, so my apologies if I am out of line. I'm guessing that you aren't alone as Americans are much more into weapons, based on what we see online.

Are you from a rural or urban area in Canada? In Michigan there are a lot of guns and hunting is very popular. (I personally don't care about hunting at all.) I would imagine that hunting would also be very popular in Canada.

I think the big difference between the US and Canadian gun culture is that in the US people often have guns for self protection and that Canadians generally believe they are safe, and only need guns for hunting. (My impression, not based on statistics.)

 

[black_squirrel]

Perhaps this was mentioned early on, and if so, I apologize: I have been reading some of the older articles on Alexandra’s murder and came across something that I don’t remember seeing before:

“The case is being investigated by Michigan State Police, but the initial 911 calls were received by the Oakland County Sheriff's Department 911 operators.

One of the calls is from a man who says Brueger was laying in his yard and she had been shot a couple times.

The man came to see what was happening after hearing shots.

‘I was down at the pond and I heard bullets,’ is how he describes what happened.

He also said he thought she had gotten out of her [it sounds like the witness says “A car” in the recording, IMO] car and someone shot her. He then tells the operator that he has to go and help her, but that he cannot take his phone with him. He does keep the phone link open at the request of the operator.’” (BBM)

https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/oa...aying-in-my-yard-just-got-shot-a-couple-times

The article is dated Aug 1, 2016. You can listen to the 911 call at the above link.

I wonder how sure the witness was about Alexandra possibly getting out of a car (he sounds pretty sure of it in the 911 recording, IMO). And could this be one of the reasons why LE have said (“I think it would be irresponsible to say that it couldn't be random because it's a possibility, but I think from what we've found on scene and some of our gut instincts, and past incidents, she knew who her attacker was," MSP Lt. Michael Shaw said)
she likely knew her killer (i.e., she wouldn't have gotten into a car with a stranger)?
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/msp-confident-murdered-jogger-knew-her-attacker

If so, perhaps the killer stopped Alexandra, forced her into their car with the shotgun, and when she tried to flee (which they probably were not expecting), they killed her.

This is an interesting observation. Did he see a car? He never mentions actually seeing a car or another person. Yet he believes/assumes that she came out of a car. Did he perhaps hear a car?
This is very puzzling.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Are you from a rural or urban area in Canada? In Michigan there are a lot of guns and hunting is very popular. (I personally don't care about hunting at all.) I would imagine that hunting would also be very popular in Canada.

I think the big difference between the US and Canadian gun culture is that in the US people often have guns for self protection and that Canadians generally believe they are safe, and only need guns for hunting. (My impression, not based on statistics.)

This is exactly the case in Japan, where I spent the first 16 years of my life and worked for four years right after college. Very much a cultural difference, IMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This is an interesting observation. Did he see a car? He never mentions actually seeing a car or another person. Yet he believes/assumes that she came out of a car. Did he perhaps hear a car?
This is very puzzling.

Car door slammed shut? Vehicle speeding away from scene? Is the homeowner who called 911 the same individual who reported seeing the white sedan in the area that day?

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Car door slammed shut? Vehicle speeding away from scene? Is the homeowner who called 911 the same individual who reported seeing the white sedan in the area that day?

RBBM

Wondered the same.

Even wondered maybe LE have asked the media to refrain from reporting on the 911 caller’s comment about Alexandra possibly getting out of a car out of concern for the caller’s safety.

It’s entirely possible the killer knows exactly which residence Alexandra ended up (I’ve read at least one article that published the exact address, house number included), or perhaps award that they were (or at least the car they were driving) seen by the gentleman. No arrest has been made, so who knows, the killer could come back and try to harm the caller.

The light-colored sedan is indeed relevant to the case, IMO. Surely, LE have checked to see who might have had access to such vehicle at the time of the murder, at least those close to Alexandra are concerned.

 

[Memo30]

Suspects would have to include person residing nearest the death site, person who called 911, person with tip about vehicle allegedly seen, those resident to the vicinity.

 

[Spellbound]

Car door slammed shut? Vehicle speeding away from scene? Is the homeowner who called 911 the same individual who reported seeing the white sedan in the area that day?

There hasn’t been much about the possible white car. Good observation that someone may have heard a car door slam shut as the perp (or someone else) shut a door. Couod be mistaken as Ally getting in/out of a car or could have been the perp .. or anyone else in the area, though not likely.

I do wish we could get some more updates from LE.

glad to have your thoughts, Squirrel! You always make me think deeper.

 

[Combatmedic2121]

Are you still considering the possibility of the murderer being a stranger to Ally?
-Nin

No...I would say at this point that the “random stranger hypothesis” seems extremely unlikely. Not impossible of course, but highly improbable in my view.
And just to be clear... I’m not just saying this based on a hunch I have or some “feeling”.


It’s hard to explain my thought process here but I’ll do my best...

I’ve spent endless hours since Ally’s death trying to rationalize and understand what happened that day and why. I think about the time leading up to that day and everything that happened and everything that I’ve learned and observed since that day.

After Ally was killed, Nikki and I both knew that her and I were by far the two closest people in Ally’s life, and if anyone could relate in anyway to the pain we were going through, it was each other. We had grown close and had kept in regular contact, a couple times a week, for over a year after Ally died.

Over that year I had noticed a lot of strange things about Nikki and Franz’s behavior and odd things Nikki would tell me about Franz.
Nikki had repeatedly told me that she felt like she was grieving the loss of her daughter alone in that house.
That Franz was is no way supportive at all and that he seem completely unable to relate to why she was in so much pain.
There was also quite a bit of fighting going on, followed by days of them not speaking to each other on a regular basis.... but she would never give me any more details than that.


Eventually I had grown more and more suspicious of Franz. I eventually shared this with Nikki and told her that she really needs to consider this possibility since she wasn’t home with Franz when Ally left her run or when she was killed.
Now keep this in mind, Nikki had originally told me that when she left the house earlier that day Ally was still sleeping and Franz was the last person to see her before her run.

Nikki suddenly started completely flipped out on me and having a melt down over the phone. When I brought up that we both know just how bad things really were between Ally and Franz...
Nikki drastically downplayed it saying, “So they weren’t very close, so what!...that doesn’t mean anything! Just STOP! I just know it wasn’t Franz ok!?!?”

So again, I told Nikki that I know she doesn't “believe” it was Franz... but she couldn’t really say she “knows” it wasn’t because, again, she wasn’t home!

What Nikki said next changed everything for me...
“I know it wasn’t Franz because he was with me!”
She then went on to tell me that she actually never left earlier that day, she was home with Franz the whole time and I was just “confused”.

I immediately called ******** on this and told her I think she either know it was him, or at a minimum, strongly suspects Franz and is scared to death to accept it and she’s trying to protect him.

Nikki and I have never spoke again. Six months later crime watch came to town and she found out they were going to interview me... she knew what was coming!
She knew I would bring up Franz. That’s when it became very important to her to do as much creditably damage to me as possible! Saying things like, “He hardly knows us, he only met us once! I don’t even speak to him!”
You’ll also notice it’s the first time she ever mentions this mysterious guy she was supposed to go visit and it’s the first time she suddenly starts saying she actually suspects me!
Then I discovered that in the months after our falling out over me suspecting Franz... Nikki had been coming up with completely fabricated suspicious stories about me and feeding them to the police.
When Chris Hanson asked Nikki her number one reason for suspecting me, Nikki told him that one day I was over her house and she asked me to go on a walk with her to the spot where Ally died, but got mad I kept refusing and I didn’t want to go there and I couldn’t tell her why!
Ok... that NEVER happened! So in other words, her number one reason for suspecting me was something she had to completely make up? What hell is going on here? If you don’t actually suspect me then why pretend like you do? Wouldn't this compromise the actual effort to find the person who really killed her daughter?

I could go on and on, but I’m basically at a point where if they were to arrest some stranger and charge them with Ally’s murder it would actually create far more questions than answers! It would still leave everything about Nikki’s recent behaviors and lies completely unexplained!

 

[Spellbound]

Combatmedic, I do suspect someone who knew Ally was involved, but I cannot agree that it points only to the parents. Actually, I honestly doubt either parent was involved in her murder. I understand you are closer to all the participants than those who are here, so you will have a different perspective on many issues.

However, you seem to be set on swaying us to your suspicion of a parent (mainly the father) with “facts” that can not be proven. I will try to explain my thoughts:

Nikki and Franz had different ways to deal with their feelings and loss. This could cause a rift, because Nikki may have neeed/wanted more comfort and Franz was not able to be demonstrative. That can lead to arguments all by itself, or feelings of “being alone to grieve” for both of them. Thus you became “suspicious”. A natural reaction, but not necessarily for the reason you believe. The more you pressed Nikki on this, the more angry she became toward you. Perfectly inderstandable, too. As for whether she left before Ally or was home with Franz, we have nothing but your word to rely on. And how can we be absolutely sure your words are correct? We can’t; we just have to trust you are sharing what things appeared to you and could be inaccurate.

I suspect your forecefulness to get Nikki on your side and differences in what you both recall has actually turned her against you and now the two of you have no communication. That is a sad reality for so many going through a murder that has not been solved. Without actual proof, basing suspicions on what we feel is open to a lot of questions.

Your posts come across as though you are upset with us for not agreeing with your suspicions, at least to me. I find it unusual that we generally treat family as a victim here and yet you continually point to then as being guilty. Until LE can give us info that points to them, I cannot and will not consider them as less than a victim. I will have my eyes/ears open to the possibility, but am not actively pursuing that angle. You will have to give me more than a suspicion for that. I need specific facts to consider. And I do want this solved soon.

This is all Just My Own Opinion, of course. Bashing the family should be off-base, even from Verified Insider.

 

[Combatmedic2121]

Combatmedic
Until LE can give us info that points to them, I cannot and will not consider them as less than a victim. I will have my eyes/ears open to the possibility, but am not actively pursuing that angle. You will have to give me more than a suspicion for that. I need specific facts to consider. And I do want this solved soon.

This is all Just My Own Opinion, of course. Bashing the family should be off-base, even from Verified Insider.

Once again, you seem to think that there’s some motive here for me to convince YOU. If If I convinced everyone, or no one, on this forum, at the end of the day it doesn’t actually change anything. This isn’t a court trial. You understand this right?

Furthermore, I’m perfectly aware that there actually is no convincing you. Anything I tell you will always be me completely written off as deflection. That’s perfect fine by me, but it’s your loss, not mine.

I’d also like to point out a clear an very obvious doubly standard here. You say, “Until LE can give us info that points to them, I cannot and will not consider them as less than a victim.”
Do you grant me this same curtesy? Of course not. The police have yet to present even a single shred of anything even resembling anything like evidence that I had anything to do with Alex’s death. The reason for this is because there isn’t any, and I know they know this. Nor will there ever be any because I’m not a murder.
So to be completely honest with you, I have absolutely ZERO fear that LE will ever try to hold me responsible for this crime.
I do, however, have a great deal of fear that LE either botched this case by over looking the parents in the beginning, or that they know the parents are guilty but lack the evidence to ensure an actual conviction in court.

As far as “bashing the family” goes. Well I really hate to have to tell you this but everything I’ve said about Nikki and Franz is true and LE knows this is true. Or is that just irrelevant to you? Like doesn’t matter to you if it’s actually true or not... it’s not “nice” and people should only be allowed to say “nice” things about her parents. Never mind LE has repeatedly called them suspects in this case.

Nothing about your expressed views here have any basis in objectivity or rationality. You’re clearly always going to view this from the emotional lense that you just don’t want it to be the parents because it’s such a repulsive conclusion. And I would agree with you, this isn’t a conclusion I wish for or hoped to come to in any way when I started this journey.
I never wish or ask for any of this, losing Alex, having my life turned upside down, dealing with severe depression for the first time in my life, having people look at me with suspicion for absolutely no reason other than I loved and dated her. I never wished for any of this, especially the eventual conclusion I came to.
Im honestly am filled with tremendous guilt they I ever let her move back into that house with Franz. I should have been more comprising and less stubborn about getting married and moving into a bigger place together.
I feel guilt for not being there to protect or save her in that moment when she needed me to protect her. I was an army medic for 6 years, 2 tours in Iraq, I’m excellent at saving people from life threatening gunshot wounds. If I couldn’t have stopped it I could have at least saved her life if I had been there. I think about how scared she must of been laying there on that guy’s front lawn bleeding out.

These are the kind of thought that haunt me daily. But I’m not asking for anyone’s sympathy or benefit of doubt.
It’s not like I’m just asking this for myself but no one else. I don’t want ANYONE to be giving any benefit of doubt, that includes her parents! I want everyone to be looked at, everyone questioned, no one should be able to play the hurt feelings card to escape this scrutiny. I want answers and I want justice, however unwelcome and appalling that eventually conclusion ends up being.