Identified! WA - Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #6 *name withheld*

[Claireishere]

In going back to the pics I realized how much Lyle and my oldest son favor each other. I could not imagine that his family didn’t google the name “Lyle Stevik” once they were informed of his passing. I could not begin to prepare myself for seeing those kind of pics of my child.

I know we needed them in hopes of identifying, i just wish there was a way to allow viewing with discretion.


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[Buttons]

Some of the photos that have been removed at their source are still showing in the search results. I don't know why this is the case but hopefully it will resolve itself with time.

I contacted the deputy editor of MEL Magazine last night but I haven't received a response yet. I've received really mixed responses from people overall - some are understanding, some are annoyed that I've asked and some simply ignore me. I just hope I'm doing the right thing.

The photos will never be completely gone from the internet. If anyone, including Lyle's family, should ever want to find them for any reason, they will be able to. In a way, I hope they haven't searched his alias. The photos are heartbreaking and I don't know if I'd ever truly recover if I saw my loved one like that. People who discover victims of suicide are often traumatised for life by the sight and I can only imagine that a photograph would prolong that trauma and make any chance of that mental image fading near impossible.

Maybe we could ask Mr. Youmans to ask Lyle's family if it's their wish to have the photos removed where we can remove them, if that's not an inappropriate question to ask them.

 

[Buttons]

Maybe I’m being misunderstood, too. Nobody’s advocating for one extreme over the other. At least, I’m not.

I’m advocating that we help clean up our threads first — if they’re not already. ... Removing links to pix, deleting uploaded pix, etc. That we, as a community, make sure we’ve done right by his family, too.

The hard work you and others are doing off WS will indeed remind some sensible people to remove pix they’ve posted, and many have. I’m not knocking that, either. Like I’ve also said, they’re of no use to anyone at this point.

They’re in the public domain. They weren’t released to cause harm. The bigger picture of changing or inhibiting FOIA laws is that not every case is like Lyle’s. The overwhelming majority of requests don’t remotely resemble his case. Most involve “run-of-the-mill” public meeting and other data from government agencies at all levels. The FOIA exists to protect the public good, to add a level of transparency and accountability.

We’re hyper focusing on one example for which remedies already exist: take-down requests, privacy laws, restrictions of release, cease-and-desist requests, civil suits, etc. That’s all; that’s my point there.

I understand. You're right, the FOIA does add a level of transparency and accountability. I just personally feel that the large Imgur album should not have been released, even if it did ultimately do some good and draw more people to the case. When you said "Has the family asked the sleuthing community to remove their existence from the internet?" I thought you were implying that we shouldn't take it upon ourselves to ask to have them removed because the family hasn't expressed desire for us to do so, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding if that's not what you were saying at all. I suppose I thought it was safe to assume that they would want them taken down. I'm trying to tackle the photos that show up when you Google image search "Lyle Stevik" first, and that has included some photos from these threads. I will comb through all of them at a later date to find and remove the others if I need to.

 

[dotr]

If it were not for pm photo of a Montreal woman found murdered in LA many years ago, she might not have been identified.
Her family assumed that she was just living her life and did not really know how, or have a way to search for her, but ultimately a family friend saw the pm photo and recognized her from that. The mp did not look like the released sketch and had been very brutally murdered.
Maybe since the pic is not talked about, it does not raise a fuss or interest, what really matters is that the young woman was identified.
Another uid murder victim's pm was widely publicized in the news recently, when that person was identified due to that photo, a new thread was started with that victim's name strictly without those pics. No problem.
Thinking that despite bringing it up myself in this post, the subject of those photos should be laid to rest so as not to feed the fire.
Just my opinion, speculation.

 

[Roselvr]

If it were not for pm photo of a Montreal woman found murdered in LA many years ago, she might not have been identified.
Her family assumed that she was just living her life and did not really know how, or have a way to search for her, but ultimately a family friend saw the pm photo and recognized her from that. The mp did not look like the released sketch and had been very brutally murdered.
Maybe since the pic is not talked about, it does not raise a fuss or interest, what really matters is that the young woman was identified.
Another uid murder victim's pm was widely publicized in the news recently, when that person was identified due to that photo, a new thread was started with that victim's name strictly without those pics. No problem.
Thinking that despite bringing it up myself in this post, the subject of those photos should be laid to rest so as not to feed the fire.
Just my opinion, speculation.

Here is her thread. IT links to when she was identified. Her recons/ sketches were horrible; looked nothing like how beautiful she really was.
CA - Laurel Canyon, WhtFem 358UFCA, 20-23, Manson Victim, Nov'69 - Reet Jurvetson

Post #65

Link to article - Police said they used DNA to identify Jurvetson after her sister recognized a photo posted of the young woman's body online

Your brother was born in the 40s?

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1960's; I believe 65 or 66.

Another one gone. That's my last update for the night because it's almost 2:30am here.

I'm not trying to meddle or censor anything, just help, if I can. I'll leave the rest of the pictures be if that's how people really feel about it, although I don't see how that could be right or respectful in this case. Let me know what you all think, though...I don't want to assume that my own personal moral compass is always right.

Good night all :wave:

I'm right there with you reporting pics from google image search. Seems never ending if you click on a photo, there are more linked to them.

I don’t think anyone here prefers for the photos to exist online. Most, if not all of us here on this thread, obviously cared a lot about “Lyle” and his family, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. I think what you are doing is great and I admire your efforts.

I haven’t really seen anyone object to the photos being removed. I think the issue is that some people think the FOIA was out of line for releasing the photos in the first place and want to restrict what gets released in future requests, and others think what was released in response to the FOIA request was in line with freedom of information. JMO

I advocate for a few families of missing. My biggest issue is they should have been uploaded to a password protected site and were too easy to get to and save

I just want to clarify that I wasn't trying to shame anyone for discussing or posting links to the photos while we were trying to identify Lyle. There is a difference between releasing one or two photographs of the deceased to help people who are comparing them to missing persons or in the hopes that someone will recognise them and releasing an entire album of photos that we don't and didn't ever really need to identify him - we have dozens of photos of Lyle as he was found and it just feels like a violation of his dignity. I'm sure the person who sought to release them had good intentions and wanted to help, but it doesn't sit right with me that the images were released on that scale and that they're still around. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not my place to decide, but I hope we can remove as many of them as possible. I'm truly sorry if my posts offended anyone.

Agree, all of the pics weren't needed.

So I'm the one who posted the link to the album here that was posted on reddit by someone who did a FOIA request.

When I posted the links I never dreamt the case would be solved. I posted them in hopes that us sleuths would be able to solve the mystery and bring this young man home. I didn't ever stop to think that his family may see the pictures some day. I've been in contact with the mods of this forum to have my posts removed - I'd remove them myself but I can't seem to do that.

I sincerely apologize for any harm caused to his family by way of my posting the links to the albums.

I also think I posted the links too at some point. If the photos they link to get cleaned up we don't have to worry about the links but I will look for my posts and report them.

Some of the photos that have been removed at their source are still showing in the search results. I don't know why this is the case but hopefully it will resolve itself with time.

I contacted the deputy editor of MEL Magazine last night but I haven't received a response yet. I've received really mixed responses from people overall - some are understanding, some are annoyed that I've asked and some simply ignore me. I just hope I'm doing the right thing.

The photos will never be completely gone from the internet. If anyone, including Lyle's family, should ever want to find them for any reason, they will be able to. In a way, I hope they haven't searched his alias. The photos are heartbreaking and I don't know if I'd ever truly recover if I saw my loved one like that. People who discover victims of suicide are often traumatised for life by the sight and I can only imagine that a photograph would prolong that trauma and make any chance of that mental image fading near impossible.

Maybe we could ask Mr. Youmans to ask Lyle's family if it's their wish to have the photos removed where we can remove them, if that's not an inappropriate question to ask them.

The photos still showing on google will eventually be gone too. It takes some time for it to catch up.

Everyone has an opinion on whether they should stay or go. Removing what we can get removed will hopefully help shield his family from seeing them with a google search. If they want to see them they can speak to LE

I was in a FB group a few weeks ago, some girl's young daughter found her brother hanging similar to Lyle in the basement. She thought it wasn't possible for him to do on his own, thought he was murdered. Everyone mentioned Lyle. I tried telling her to be careful the scene photos were online and graphic but she found them before I said anything. She found them very helpful because as I said she didn't think her brother could kill himself in this manner

I understand. You're right, the FOIA does add a level of transparency and accountability. I just personally feel that the large Imgur album should not have been released, even if it did ultimately do some good and draw more people to the case. When you said "Has the family asked the sleuthing community to remove their existence from the internet?]" I thought you were implying that we shouldn't take it upon ourselves to ask to have them removed because the family hasn't expressed desire for us to do so, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding if that's not what you were saying at all.[/B I suppose I thought it was safe to assume that they would want them taken down. I'm trying to tackle the photos that show up when you Google image search "Lyle Stevik" first, and that has included some photos from these threads. I will comb through all of them at a later date to find and remove the others if I need to.

That's how I understood it too, that we don't know if the family has asked for the photos to be removed. I don't know any family that would want them left up for their children; grand kids and loved ones to potentially see. Say Lyle has a niece or nephew 11 to 14. They can go online, type in Lyle Stevik and possibly see them. You just never know who will search.

I disagree that any FOIA request was “taken advantage of” in this case. One, multiple were filed. Two, they were made (and granted) in the best interest of the case. Three, requests may be denied and challenged (some were).

Autopsy photos are sometimes used on UID websites, too. They can help ID someone, and Lyle’s generated a lot of leads.

They requested public documents. That’s a big reason why FOIA exists. Some were released. They helped keep interest in his case at the fore. Logically, the family had no idea they existed until recently. Are we flagging his photo-linked posts on WS to see if mods/admin can delete them? Is our own front yard clean in that regard? Should it be?

Has the family requested that the sleuthing community remove their existence from the internet?

refused Lyle FOIA request:
https://es.scribd.com/document/358390078/INTERPOL-Response-Lyle-Stevik

refused Lyle FOIA request:
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/grays-harbor-county-8380/grays-harbor-lyle-stevik-911-audio-37890/

refused Lyle FOIA request:
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/grays-harbor-county-8380/grays-harbor-lyle-stevik-emails-34798/#comms

FOIA request, no records found:
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/fbi-lyle-stevik-24525/#comms

(I mean, where did the police photos from the scene and of his handwriting come from? Police released them, correct? Or no? Kinda tough to renege that cat once it’s out of the bag, if so?)

LE released some photos that were not that bad. Back then they were necessary. They did not release anything as graphic as what came with the FOIA request.

 

[Sherwood Park]

The photos served a purpose, IMO, at the time they were posted. As Lyle has now been identified, they no longer serve any purpose except sensationalism. If I were a part of Lyle's family, I would want them removed if possible.

****Maybe I am being morbid but I would want to see everything related to Lyle, including those photos. I would have to know everything there was to know and see everything there was to see if Lyle were my son or part of my family. Then I would never want to look at them again.

At no point does someone's suicide photo serve a purpose for the public, they should never have been released. A Google search of "Lyle Stevik" still brings up his suicide photos without any warning. No mother or loved one would ever want those pictures all over the internet. An autopsy photo of a person's face is different, those are used to help identify a person.
The last time a parent "sees" their child should not be an online picture of them in a suicide position.

 

[bears10]

At no point does someone's suicide photo serve a purpose for the public, they should never have been released. A Google search of "Lyle Stevik" still brings up his suicide photos without any warning. No mother or loved one would ever want those pictures all over the internet. An autopsy photo of a person's face is different, those are used to help identify a person.
The last time a parent "sees" their child should not be an online picture of them in a suicide position.

If lyles PM pics weren’t released, I do not think he would be identified right now. JMO

Of course no mother or family member wants to see their loved one in such photos. No one is denying that. But imo his PM pictures played a huge role in his case getting the attention it did. Which then led to his identification. JMO

 

[Buttons]

Nobody ever said that PM photos shouldn't have been released, just that the photos obtained via the FOIA request were unnecessary. LE released morgue photos years before the dozens of police photos were posted to the internet, and the case already had a big following by that time. People have always cared about Lyle - nobody ever needed to see him that way.

This is the final update I'm going to give re: the photos because I don't think there is any more I can do at this point. Many of Lyle's photos have been removed but there are around ten graphic photos that still appear in the search results, and that's including the ones that will take you to an error page if you click on them (these will definitely disappear, it's just a matter of when). Those ten or so photos could have been removed by now, because I was able to contact every single poster/website admin or moderator and ask them to take the photo down. There is no reason why they couldn't have been, but they are still there because people decided that for whatever reason, they shouldn't take them down. I can't force people to do anything and I wouldn't ever want to but it breaks my heart that they couldn't do something as simple as replace a PM photo with a sketch or composite or take a photo down to spare Lyle's friends and family any further trauma.

 

[LaLaw2000]

At no point does someone's suicide photo serve a purpose for the public, they should never have been released. A Google search of "Lyle Stevik" still brings up his suicide photos without any warning. No mother or loved one would ever want those pictures all over the internet. An autopsy photo of a person's face is different, those are used to help identify a person.
The last time a parent "sees" their child should not be an online picture of them in a suicide position.

That is your opinion and I respect it. Differing opinions should be respected also. I am just thankful Lyle has been identified and sent back to his family.

 

[Buttons]

LE released some photos that were not that bad. Back then they were necessary. They did not release anything as graphic as what came with the FOIA request.

This is what I've been trying to say but I think it came across wrong. Post-mortem pictures are a necessary procedure and often an integral part of identifying people. The initial photos released (I believe there were two, along with photos of his handwriting and some other items) of Lyle were upsetting, of course, but they were not gruesome and may have led to his identification eventually had his DNA not been tested. I don't have a problem with those being released, but I do think they should be removed alongside the others now that he's been identified. I don't think the photos obtained via the FOIA request had enough of an impact on the case to justify their release (even if the person who obtained them had good intentions) and now that they are on the internet people can save and use them wherever they want to, including in new articles about Lyle's case. In my opinion, that is wrong and insensitive to him and anyone who loved him.

I do respect the differing opinions of others here and I know how much all of you care about Lyle, but I can't see how all of those pictures were or ever could have been necessary. Even if we disagree on their usefulness, I hope we can all agree that they have no place on the internet now. :cry:

 

[Buttons]

Oh my goodness...I know I said no more updates but it actually happened. The Imgur photos are gone. Here is the album now, without any graphic PM photos of Lyle: https://imgur.com/a/2XEV9/all

 

[Roselvr]

Oh my goodness...I know I said no more updates but it actually happened. The Imgur photos are gone. Here is the album now, without any graphic PM photos of Lyle: https://imgur.com/a/2XEV9/all

Awesome! Thanks so much for all you did to clean them up

 

[mrsobrien]

Personally, I think it's time to let the family choose how to handle the internet. This case is theirs now, and interfering further is overstepping. Maybe they would like to reference how this progressed without edits. We don't know. Jmo.

 

[Buttons]

If Lyle's family should ever want to see the photos for any reason they will be able to ask for them. They should not be in the public domain for people to see and distribute as they please. The release of the motel room photos in the first place was an overstep and a violation. Just my opinion...

 

[rascal32]

I agree that with the above poster that it is up to the family now to decide how things go from here.
I understand sometimes when you’ve invested years on a case, it’s hard to let go when it’s over. And he has been identified and it’s time for us to let go now and let his family take over. JMO


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[brett1968]

It is more than unfortunate that Lyle's family have had this situation turn out the way that it has, especially given how raw the pain must now be for them in discovering that he had suicided all those years ago when they felt him to be safely, just out and about and living as he pleased. It must be devastating for them to see him as someone who felt isolated enough take his own life, even though this could never be attributed to their actions in any way, whatsoever.

I stand by my belief that Lyle had every intention of his family one day discovering who he was, and that is partly what I base my (self) absolution of any negative result of all this online speculation that I and others have engaged in over the years. I truly believe that Lyle did not want to remain anonymous-my thoughts on this matter are clearly stated with good reasons given elsewhere on this forum and on reddit.

<modsnip>

We may even see that Lyle's family may be able to use the recorded history of our deliberations as some type of mechanism that over time helps them to come to terms with the sudden sense of loss and the grief they're currently experiencing.

 

[ilovepierre]

Wow!
So happy to see he has finally been identified!
I followed this case (although not quite as heavily as some) and hoped to someday see this young man identified.
I understand his family wants to keep "Lyle's" real identity withheld, part of me wants to know his name, too!

IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Some posts have been removed.

Let's keep the focus on discussing Lyle's case and forego discussing the drama on other social media.

Thanks.

 

[Buttons]

On another note, is all of this still so surreal to anyone else? I need to metaphorically pinch myself every now and then so I know that it's actually happened and Lyle will now be able to go home after all this time.

 

[Tssiemer]

Can I just ask a question? I’m not trying to start anything or anything but why are we still discussing this case? It was suicide, no?


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