Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[human]

Why do suppose LE was up on the roof?

 

[dotr]

Why do suppose LE was up on the roof?

They also searched the sewers, so it could be said that they literally searched high and low.
rbbm.
Dec. 22, 2017
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-barry-sherman-how-do-police-investigate.html

Toronto police were seen looking at the roof of the house that Barry and Honey were found inside, and inside their car. Why would they be looking there?

A police investigation can broaden or shrink at any point, Perry told the Star. “With something like this they typically rope it off at the property line, and everything inside of that yellow tape is subject any kind of testing or searching that the police deem necessary,” he said.

They could be searching in the car for signs of a struggle, blood, or other evidence that could hone in their investigation.

“It’s anybody’s guess why they were on the roof,” he added.

 

[dotr]

Jan 11 2018
http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...ty-underscores-toronto-police-staffing-issues

‘THOROUGH’ INVESTIGATION
​

Since the suspicious “ligature neck compression” deaths of philanthropists Barry and Honey Sherman on Dec. 14, 2017, every imaginable investigative tool and technique has been deployed at their at 50 Old Colony Road mansion.

— A search of the roof with help from a Toronto Fire crane and bucket.
— Storm sewers scouring with a giant magnet.
— The 12,000-square-foot mansion has been forensically investigated from top to bottom.
— The entire neighbourhood has been canvassed, video cameras studied and cell-phone calls scrutinized.
What else could be left to do?

On Wednesday, a Toronto Police forensics officer with a metal detector was up in the snow-filled front yard of a home on Forest Heights Blvd., which backs the Sherman home.

What could she have been looking for?

A gun, knife or metal wiring? A house key? A cellphone or computer card?

Toronto Police did not comment. But a source said they are being “tremendously thorough” before turning over the scene to Sherman family private investigator Thomas Klatt.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Why do suppose LE was up on the roof?

My guesses were: checking surveillance cameras, seeing if there was a point of entry or exit, looking for clues in general or something more precise like a cell phone or remote that might be unaccounted for.

Could the murder have been waiting on the roof and jumped down as either car approached?

 

[ldlager]

Jan 11 2018
http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...ty-underscores-toronto-police-staffing-issues

Perhaps this suggests the police maybe thought the killers left via the Sherman’s back yard cutting through to the house on Forest Heights blvd?

 

[ldlager]

My guesses were: checking surveillance cameras, seeing if there was a point of entry or exit, looking for clues in general or something more precise like a cell phone or remote that might be unaccounted for.

Could the murder have been waiting on the roof and jumped down as either car approached?

Its a very high roof. Maybe spiderman?:scared:

 

[dotr]

Its a very high roof. Maybe spiderman?:scared:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/catch...oronto-spider-man-snares-shoplifter-1.3142367

Catches thieves just like flies: Toronto Spider-Man snares shoplifter

 

[Arnie M]

I have followed this case from day one and have noticed no mention of one important aspect

There are plenty of "Deep Dark Corners" in the big pharma business .... this may not apply to the Shermans per say , but it does apply to the pharma industry overall .

It is the "back door" supply of illicit street drugs such as opioids

Government regulators and manufacturers can account for the millions of such pills through the normal and proper channels (by prescription)

However it is abundantly clear there is also a huge additional supply to the illicit "street side" .

Law enforcement has pointed out that the manufactures obviously know some of their products reach the street through unregulated off-shore companies and distributors (for example) but the manufacturers turn a blind eye to it because of the huge revenues and profits involved ..... in other words police are hinting that many manufactures are "complicit" in fueling the illegal opioid epidemic we see in modern day .

-----------

Joe Warmington may have "hinted" at that in this article ........ (quote) ..... police have not commented on a tweet from Steve Paikin, of TVO’s The Agenda, that he had “heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans.”
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

--------------------------------------------

And this:

US state attorneys general sue Purdue Pharma over opioid epidemic
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/15/us-...l-sue-purdue-pharma-over-opioid-epidemic.html
(Quote) .... The action accused the drug-makers of deceptively marketing opioids and drug distributors of ignoring indications that the painkillers were being diverted for improper uses.

Just a couple of additional things to ponder in this case .... whether it be murder or suicide it could suggest some folks may not wish be around if a scandal ensued.

 

[andreww]

The cops spent hours and hours investigating the crime. It seems impossible that they would waste money like that.

So the family does not like the verdict. What would that matter?

It does seem very strange that the marks were not noticed by the coroner. Although sometimes people get an idea and cannot see what is right in front of them.

Cops were right to spend time investigating, after all there were suspicious circumstances like countless lawsuits and the manner in which they were found. However, the best in the business (supposedly) seemed to be still under the impression that this was a murder suicide right up until after the funerals. So what happened to change their minds? Was it the independent report released by the family? Or was it the visit from the mayor to the chief of police after his meeting with the family at the funeral? The Sherman family is a cash cow for politicians on a municipal, provincial and federal level, and all it would take would be a threat to end that gravy train to change their minds.

Cash is king, and in this particular case nobody would be hurt by covering up the truth. Its a win/win for both sides.

 

[andreww]

Where does it say that the coroner did not notice the marks?? The report I read, said he had seen the marks.

Remember, it was not TPS who reported this as a M/S, it was a 'reporter' who said they had it from a 'police source'. THAT means nothing. Im talking about while the bodies were still in the home.

As for while TPS waited a month, it seems odd but we have NO idea of why or what else was transpiring during that time.

Without such knowledge, one cannot make a fair assessment.

It will, however, play out eventually. Maybe. lol

Well how do you explain that on all the search warrants only Honey was ever named as a victim? Police also said that there was no public threat, indicating that any perpetrator was either dead or in custody. We are hearing that these "marks" were caused by rope or manual strangulation, not by the belts, wouldn't that make it 100% clear that it was a double murder? Yet police claimed that they were still considering suicide?

Its pretty clear that cops were thinking suicide right up until the independent findings were published on the front page of all the Toronto papers, then within days TPS publicly announced that it was a double murder. Somethings not right here.

 

[Tortoise]

Cops were right to spend time investigating, after all there were suspicious circumstances like countless lawsuits and the manner in which they were found. However, the best in the business (supposedly) seemed to be still under the impression that this was a murder suicide right up until after the funerals. So what happened to change their minds? Was it the independent report released by the family? Or was it the visit from the mayor to the chief of police after his meeting with the family at the funeral? The Sherman family is a cash cow for politicians on a municipal, provincial and federal level, and all it would take would be a threat to end that gravy train to change their minds.

Cash is king, and in this particular case nobody would be hurt by covering up the truth. Its a win/win for both sides.

BBM Are you referring to the four Sherman children? Is this factual?

 

[Kerry Winter]

I mentioned “holding hands” metaphorically. In other words, Barry set the stage for 2 lovers ending their lives together.
It is my belief that after my cousin killed Honey...he wanted to make it look like a suicide pact. They weren’t literally holding hands.

 

[Hazel]

Off Topic
I vaguely remember posts on older BS & HS threads about the PI's hired pathologist.
We are currently on thread #8 and it's hard to go back and look for those posts, though I'll try and go look for those posts and links a bit later.
:findinglink:

I tried to do my own search, and found this, which wasn't what I was looking for, but is what Google gave me so far:

Johnston ruled the man had been strangled to death, but Chiasson spoke to the police investigator, reviewed photographs, histological slides, and other evidence, and concluded the man had more likely died of “significant” coronary-artery disease, combined with a high level of methadone in his blood.

Burns, represented by high-profile Ottawa defence lawyer Lawrence Greenspon, sued Johnston and two police investigators for $770,000, after Johnston’s autopsy report had been overturned. A judge later dismissed the lawsuit and assessed damages to Burns at $25,000, on grounds there was no evidence of negligence, either by the police or by Johnston.

http://www.lawtimesnews.com/article/ottawa-lawyers-want-inquiry-into-coroners-work-9094/

 

[casesensitive]

Off Topic
I vaguely remember posts on older BS & HS threads about the PI's hired pathologist.
We are currently on thread #8 and it's hard to go back and look for those posts, though I'll try and go look for those posts and links a bit later.
:findinglink:

I tried to do my own search, and found this, which wasn't what I was looking for, but is what Google gave me so far:


http://www.lawtimesnews.com/article/ottawa-lawyers-want-inquiry-into-coroners-work-9094/[/QU

This is in reference to a grossly incompetent pathologist, Dr. Brian Johnston, who was finally fired after nine years of Dr. Chiasson's complaints about him. Are we suppose to read something into your bolded quotes? I'm confused as to how this relates to the Sherman case.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ised-about-another-pathologist/article699225/

 

[Hazel]

Off Topic
I vaguely remember posts on older BS & HS threads about the PI's hired pathologist.
We are currently on thread #8 and it's hard to go back and look for those posts, though I'll try and go look for those posts and links a bit later.
:findinglink:

I tried to do my own search, and found this, which wasn't what I was looking for, but is what Google gave me so far:


http://www.lawtimesnews.com/article/ottawa-lawyers-want-inquiry-into-coroners-work-9094/[/QU

This is in reference to a grossly incompetent pathologist, Dr. Brian Johnston, who was finally fired after nine years of Dr. Chiasson's complaints about him. Are we suppose to read something into your bolded quotes? I'm confused as to how this relates to the Sherman case.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ised-about-another-pathologist/article699225/

I don't know if he was grossly incompetent or not, apparently the judge didn't think so in that specific case. MOO
I posted only to show how hard he tried though, and there were posts on previous threads about some other instance, so only as reference in case someone is interested in reading what he has under his belt. (no pun intended).
Also, PLEASE notice I posted "Off Topic" although others have already discussed the subject previously on old BS & HS threads. eace: peace


Regarding the lawyer, I jumped the gun. I have to admit I made a mistake thinking it was the same lawyer; names are so very similar, Greenspon/Greenspan. :blushing: (sorry about that).

 

[SeesSeas]

THE STAR has conflicting reports regarding Chiasson's determination about the belts.
. . . men’s leather belts were the cause of the strangulation
. . . determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html
[FONT=&amp]Fri., Jan. 26, 2018[/FONT]
Also, Chiasson was able to determine that the men’s leather belts were the cause of the strangulation, likely done by someone holding and tightening the belt.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d-from-murder-suicide-to-double-homicide.html
[FONT=&amp]Tues., May 8, 2018[/FONT]
In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

 

[Grey-St]

THE STAR has conflicting reports regarding Chiasson's determination about the belts.
. . . men’s leather belts were the cause of the strangulation
. . . determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html
[FONT=&amp]Fri., Jan. 26, 2018[/FONT]
Also, Chiasson was able to determine that the men’s leather belts were the cause of the strangulation, likely done by someone holding and tightening the belt.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d-from-murder-suicide-to-double-homicide.html
[FONT=&amp]Tues., May 8, 2018[/FONT]
In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

The Star may not be getting their information directly from Chiasson. It's probably a source, and with that lines get crossed.

 

[Grey-St]

Sad state of affairs when TPS spends more than a month on this case, has every piece of evidence available to them, and they believe Honey was the only victim. Then they speak to a retired coroner who was HIRED BY THE FAMILY, and four days later they announce that this is definitely a double murder.

I'm sorry, but either TPS are just a group of incompetent fools, or something is definitely being covered up. I just cannot believe the current coroner would not spot any of these things, especially given that this is such a high profile case and those are the exact things he would have been looking for. Theoretically the younger coroner should be far more proficient than the older retired guy simply due to rapid advancements in science.

Nope, I still ain't buying it. Cops were right from the beginning and they are burying the truth at the request of the family.

BBM. I don't see it that way at all. An older pathologist will still be up to date on advancements, and they've had an entire careers worth of time and experience honing their skills.

ETA: and yes, sometimes TPS can be a group of incompetent fools.

 

[ldlager]

BBM. I don't see it that way at all. An older pathologist will still be up to date on advancements, and they've had an entire careers worth of time and experience honing their skills.

ETA: and yes, sometimes TPS can be a group of incompetent fools.

The more I read about Ontario Pathologists errors, mistakes, omissions, and erroneous conclusions, the more I suspect they may have screwed this case up. All we really know is that they were strangled. Words like “likely” don’t impart any confidence IMO. Or perhaps it’s as simple as maybe both pathologists missed the bullet holes? :gaah:

 

[Kerry Winter]

Something is definitely being covered up....it must be very hard for the family and Jack Kay to accept/swallow that Barry snapped, killed Honey then hung himself.
However, the truth will come out. There werent multiple “phantom” murderers that targeted my cousin and his wife.
The Sherman’s billions don’t give them the right to rewrite history!