Purpose Of This Emerald Triangle Sub-forum?

[Gardener1850]

And, boy, I hope gardener1850 is on board for this new forum. Gardener looks to be invaluable for Humboldt County.

I'll try to help. I just need to understand the parameters. You are doing great work to try to draw attention to a problem in your area and for that you should be commended.

 

[Gardener1850]

Thanks for clarifying, Burblestein. I see that you have posted links on the original threads. I would suggest that the original three threads need to be locked so no one can comment, and can move over here.

ETA: I see that Gardener said this already.

Yes, but you said it more clearly and with fewer words. I tend to get wordy in my replies. Lol.

 

[burblestein]

I am admittedly a greenhorn in WS. I do have a lot of experience from Wikipedia in organizing hypertext; in fact, I wrote my first paper on the use of hypertext in 1996. I was given no particular parameters for selecting the cases. The lists of threads I submitted for the forum were sorted by county and split into missing persons and homicides. With all the other things going on in administration, there was a vacuum, and I moved into it.

While I am not adverse to learning those administrative functions, I need both experience and training before that could happen.

 

[Lilibet]

I am admittedly a greenhorn in WS. I do have a lot of experience from Wikipedia in organizing hypertext; in fact, I wrote my first paper on the use of hypertext in 1996. I was given no particular parameters for selecting the cases. The lists of threads I submitted for the forum were sorted by county and split into missing persons and homicides. With all the other things going on in administration, there was a vacuum, and I moved into it.

While I am not adverse to learning those administrative functions, I need both experience and training before that could happen.

You did a great job with this, Burblestein, and I know you’d receive training. I’m not sure that whoever was assigned by Tricia to put the forum together truly understood it’s purpose. So threads didn’t end up organized quite as envisioned.

And I think when you and I first discussed getting this forum set up we were (or I was) thinking all missing person cases from this area could be gathered here because the numbers are unusually large. That article in the Northcoast Journal had just been posted on all the threads by Gardener, which brought home what you and I already knew. But those mentioned in that article were cold cases for the most part.

So, based on our current discussion, it seems best if this forum is restricted to cold case missing person threads and cold case murder threads rather than trying to incorporate new ones. Personally, if it’s been unsolved for about a year it would be a cold case for our purposes, even if LE doesn’t call it that.

I don’t think a case has to necessarily have a known connection to the marijuana industry, but perhaps more of a connection to the “underbelly” of this area. A missing teen or missing wife case might not qualify. Someone like Victoria Tatro falls in between IMO, but I think she belongs here because of prior drug problems.

Excuse my ramblings (disproving Gardener’s compliment about my brevity ), but these are the issues we can iron out that will make this forum really useful.

 

[Gardener1850]

It sounds like you have a really good plan, @Lilibet

I don't think you rambled at all. I agree, I think you can make this a really helpful forum to have once the navigation logistics are ironed out.

 

[Lilibet]

It sounds like you have a really good plan, @Lilibet

I don't think you rambled at all. I agree, I think you can make this a really helpful forum to have once the navigation logistics are ironed out.

Thanks. I’d like Burblestein to chime in since this was his idea originally and the workload will fall to him. I’m a decent troubleshooter, but I don’t want the responsibility to execute the plan. He’s done a marvelous job. And I am waiting to hear from Tricia also.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Ok please help me understand, so if I add a MP in the 1980's and their within one of the Emerald Triangle counties your moving them to that subthread? I often do key word searches in the 80's and 70's thread and also sort by states... now I will have to go to the Emerald triangle too and search ? Believe it should have been left where they were and make a cross link to them within the Emerald Triangle thread.

 

[burblestein]

As I mentioned above, I am linking any cases moved into the Emerald Triangle. If you land on a Missing Case that has been moved, you have only to click the link to catch up with the moved thread. To the best of my knowledge, I have linked every moved thread.

Somewhat allied to that, might I note that I have been unable to find some cases via the Search function. (But I have other ways to find 'em.) I reported those cases to Tricia. folie, if you are experiencing difficulty in finding some cases, that's probably the Search (mal)function.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

No it is not a search malfunction, lets say I go to 1980's thread and search keyword "No Photo" Or "Gap Teeth" it will not pull up the MP threads that have been moved to the Emerald Triangle as that information is in the body of the thread not the heading.

If you are trying to match up a UID and are searching by keyword you will have to search in the MP thread and Emerald Triangle thread. Many people will not know about the ET thread unless they actually click on the MP and if your searching by key word they will be missed.

I use the search function very often when working on MP cases esp in the 80's and 70's.

 

[Lilibet]

Ok please help me understand, so if I add a MP in the 1980's and their within one of the Emerald Triangle counties your moving them to that subthread? I often do key word searches in the 80's and 70's thread and also sort by states... now I will have to go to the Emerald triangle too and search ? Believe it should have been left where they were and make a cross link to them within the Emerald Triangle thread.

No it is not a search malfunction, lets say I go to 1980's thread and search keyword "No Photo" Or "Gap Teeth" it will not pull up the MP threads that have been moved to the Emerald Triangle as that information is in the body of the thread not the heading.

If you are trying to match up a UID and are searching by keyword you will have to search in the MP thread and Emerald Triangle thread. Many people will not know about the ET thread unless they actually click on the MP and if your searching by key word they will be missed.

I use the search function very often when working on MP cases esp in the 80's and 70's.

You make a good point that those of us not involved in UID matching weren’t aware of. So, to make it functional for everyone, your point about leaving those threads where they are and crosslink them to the ET forum is well taken. Back to the drawing boards!

 

[folieadeuxnola]

You make a good point that those of us not involved in UID matching weren’t aware of. So, to make it functional for everyone, your point about leaving those threads where they are and crosslink them to the ET forum is well taken. Back to the drawing boards!

TY I totally applaud the investigative work going into the Emerald Triangle. I'm here for the same reason yall are, SK's, cold cases, mp and uid.

Here is another example ... Terry Rasmussen he lived in CA 70's, 80's and 90's .. at least we think. one of the MP's that was moved into ET could be his victim. Someone may perceive that the MP is on the radar for a different SK therefore they will not do further research.

One is Mary Stuart all thou I do not know all the details about the case, her name and child have been brought up a few times in TR thread.

Gardener has done cross threading ... Bear Brook Murders (UID), Terry Rasmussen (SK), Denise Beaudin (MP).

There are several SK cases.. i.e. long haul truckers, long island, etc.. if every potential mp is moved from their curreng era locatiin to one of their threads ... oh my will have a mess

Will say I do like how nice and tighty the ET thread is ..

 

[Lilibet]

TY I totally applaud the investigative work going into the Emerald Triangle. I'm here for the same reason yall are, SK's, cold cases, mp and uid.

Here is another example ... Terry Rasmussen he lived in CA 70's, 80's and 90's .. at least we think. one of the MP's that was moved into ET could be his victim. Someone may perceive that the MP is on the radar for a different SK therefore they will not do further research.

One is Mary Stuart all thou I do not know all the details about the case, her name and child have been brought up a few times in TR thread.

Gardener has done cross threading ... Bear Brook Murders (UID), Terry Rasmussen (SK), Denise Beaudin (MP).

There are several SK cases.. i.e. long haul truckers, long island, etc.. if every potential mp is moved from their curreng era locatiin to one of their threads ... oh my will have a mess

Will say I do like how nice and tighty the ET thread is ..

I hope you’ll stick around here as this all gets sorted out. Your input will be invaluable. The goal is to solve some of these cases, so if they can’t be found easily, that can’t happen.

OT— I lived in Southern Humboldt when Mary Stuart and her two little girls disappeared. Her now-deceased husband is considered the most likely suspect. But since they’ve never been found, anything is possible. Such a sad case.

 

[katydid23]

And you are correct, this is a geographically based forum. I scan the new posts daily to see if there are any posts that need transfer to the ET Forum. I selected cold case homicides and cold case missing person cases that seem capable of resolution. I am also creating new threads in an attempt to cover all the cold cases in the Triangle.

Humboldt County has the highest per capita missing persons rate of any county in California--and possibly in the nation. Mendocino County is not much better. LE is stretched thin. Large segments of the populace won't cooperate with LE. And the "outsiders" keep flooding in to cash in on the Marijuana Green Rush, and they keep disappearing, and turning up dead....

UGH...that is so true. [BBM]

I cannot tell you how many naive, misinformed young people I have passionately dissuaded from going up North on a 'moneymaking' venture to the Emerald Triangle.

So many of them had stars in their eyes and had these totally unrealistic visions of what it is like to work the harvest season. They heard names of towns like Honeydew, Hoopa, Alderpoint, and imagined they were tranquil,
paradises where they could sit around, party, and collect the buds and get paid big money, while having a great time.

I did successfully dissuade a few of them but not all. One 19 yr old girl, a classmate of my sons, did eventually return from Redwood Valley, and told me I was right and she wished she had listened. She said it was very stressful, troubling and she was in danger much of the time. She and her friend were essentially held hostage at one remote pot grow, and pretty much escaped after a month of turmoil. I never heard the whole story because she was not ready to speak of it but she did say she was being treated for PTSD.

She thought she and her friend were being hired to trim after the the harvest. She worked on one farm but there were too many workers and not enough room for them all and they weren't being paid as promised. She was approached by a 'friend' of one of her coworkers,and he told them they had a larger pot field in the next valley and they were given some money upfront to agree to work there.

They were warned not to tell any of their current coworkers or the same thing would happen, so they didn't tell anyone where they were headed. They accepted a ride with this nice, well spoken older farmer, to the next Valley. It was somewhere in Garberville area, on a mountain above the Eel river, but he blindfolded them for the drive. She said she began to worry at that time, but they were in this mans truck, on a remote logging road, having no idea where they were by then.

When they arrived, everyone was polite for the first night. They were welcomed and given dinner with the others. The problem was, it was all men and one elderly woman. Very unlike the casual farm they had just left, full of younger people like them.

They were locked into their tiny room that night, and were held hostage and used as slave labor and sexual partners for the next month or more.


She really couldn't talk about what happened during that time...

 

[Lilibet]

UGH...that is so true. [BBM]

I cannot tell you how many naive, misinformed young people I have passionately dissuaded from going up North on a 'moneymaking' venture to the Emerald Triangle.

So many of them had stars in their eyes and had these totally unrealistic visions of what it is like to work the harvest season. They heard names of towns like Honeydew, Hoopa, Alderpoint, and imagined they were tranquil,
paradises where they could sit around, party, and collect the buds and get paid big money, while having a great time.

I did successfully dissuade a few of them but not all. One 19 yr old girl, a classmate of my sons, did eventually return from Redwood Valley, and told me I was right and she wished she had listened. She said it was very stressful, troubling and she was in danger much of the time. She and her friend were essentially held hostage at one remote pot grow, and pretty much escaped after a month of turmoil. I never heard the whole story because she was not ready to speak of it but she did say she was being treated for PTSD.

She thought she and her friend were being hired to trim after the the harvest. She worked on one farm but there were too many workers and not enough room for them all and they weren't being paid as promised. She was approached by a 'friend' of one of her coworkers,and he told them they had a larger pot field in the next valley and they were given some money upfront to agree to work there.

They were warned not to tell any of their current coworkers or the same thing would happen, so they didn't tell anyone where they were headed. They accepted a ride with this nice, well spoken older farmer, to the next Valley. It was somewhere in Garberville area, on a mountain above the Eel river, but he blindfolded them for the drive. She said she began to worry at that time, but they were in this mans truck, on a remote logging road, having no idea where they were by then.

When they arrived, everyone was polite for the first night. They were welcomed and given dinner with the others. The problem was, it was all men and one elderly woman. Very unlike the casual farm they had just left, full of younger people like them.

They were locked into their tiny room that night, and were held hostage and used as slave labor and sexual partners for the next month or more.


She really couldn't talk about what happened during that time...

How awful! And not uncommon at all. Sex trafficking is part and parcel of this scene. Thank you for trying to dissuade these kids!

 

[Gardener1850]

TY I totally applaud the investigative work going into the Emerald Triangle. I'm here for the same reason yall are, SK's, cold cases, mp and uid.

Here is another example ... Terry Rasmussen he lived in CA 70's, 80's and 90's .. at least we think. one of the MP's that was moved into ET could be his victim. Someone may perceive that the MP is on the radar for a different SK therefore they will not do further research.

One is Mary Stuart all thou I do not know all the details about the case, her name and child have been brought up a few times in TR thread.

Gardener has done cross threading ... Bear Brook Murders (UID), Terry Rasmussen (SK), Denise Beaudin (MP).

There are several SK cases.. i.e. long haul truckers, long island, etc.. if every potential mp is moved from their curreng era locatiin to one of their threads ... oh my will have a mess

Will say I do like how nice and tighty the ET thread is ..

On the one hand, I'll say that it drives me crazy that there is not a separate sub-forum for Terry Rasmussen and his known victim's threads all in one place. He should have a subforum in the SK forums, IMO. It would make going back and forth between those cases so much easier if they were all in one forum.

On the other hand, I think you have a good point that cross threading may be a solution here, rather than moving threads that may or may not be connected to the Emerald Triangle Drug trade. If the purpose of this forum is solely to keep track of all the cases in the geographical area, I don't see why the same thing could not be achieved with a single discussion thread linking to all the cases in their respective missing person's forum, rather than an entire separate forum.

In other parts of the country where there have been a large number of missing in one place we have created discussion threads which link to all the case threads for the area. Some examples of this:

MI - MI - Missing Women From Flint, Genesee County, Michigan
OH - OH - Six Women Missing from Middletown and Nearby Areas Since May 2016
OH - OH - Chillicothe Missing/Murdered, Possible SK

Having one thread allows people to add links to cases they think may be related as new cases surface. It channels the discussion to being about the area and possible reasons the cases could be connected. It also makes a clear place for discussion comments like Katydid23's comment above-- relating her experience and knowledge of the dangers in the area. It also allows each separate MP thread to exist in the missing forums without a single theory for the missing person's disappearance being imposed on the thread/case.

JMO. As I said before, I'll support and try to work with whatever is done but these are some things to think about.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Lilibet you have a beautiful way of words, your very well spoken. Now I understand the reason behind why many posters rave about you .

TY for filling me in on Mary Stuart I had no idea... I do not know very much about the ET, I do find it intriguing. Have not looked as of yet but I know there are 2 MP's that disappeared that may be apart of the ET ... recaaling from memory at the moment will have to look.

I can only speak for myself but I'm sure there are many others that use the keyword search tool in the decades threads. With the moving of MP data those MP's will not show up in the searches. And if you do know about the ET thread and you will need to go to individual county threads in total (3) and search each one with the moving of data it has created 4 places to search.

May look for all the MP's in the 80's that have "no photo", in which I have been doing most recently in effort to put a face with a name. Maybe looking for any reference to "Dodge truck" mp's that either owned a dodge or was last seen getting into a dodge. Their are sites you can search for this information CP, DOE etc. But they do not carry as much info as WS. A poster may have commented in the thread more details about the case that you will not find anywhere else.

IMO moving MP data into an individual project thread hinders the research efforts of others.

Sorry that I'm on the soapbox about this ... now I will excitingly go read the ET thread.

 

[Lilibet]

Thank you folie (where is the blushing emoji?!)

Despite the fact that my head is spinning trying to figure out what fixes are needed....c’mon coffee get busy!...Gardener and folie have put forth great ideas. Let me see if I can list them so they make sense.

1) The actual threads should stay in (or go back to) their original places for search purposes. Picture Tricia and or Burblestein tearing out their hair! So our earlier discussion about only moving cold case threads over to ET is moot. To repeat...no threads should be physically moved.

2) They should somehow link to this forum, rather than creating a thread link sending people here to find the thread, as Burblestein has been so diligently doing. Any idea how that could be done? By post on the thread which will get buried or?

3) There can be a thread within the current category “Missing Persons Discussion” as described by Gardener, listing the missing persons in the ET who may be connected. This article might be a starter.
The Mystery of Humboldt County's Missing Women
Again, the individual’s threads would still live in their normal category like 1990’s missing, etc. and the link posted.

There may be more fixes I’ve missed so chime in please.

The resulting ET forum would still be organized by county and include both missing, murdered and serial killers...but only as links to the original threads in their appropriate locations. This would fulfill the ET forum’s original purpose of highlighting and making known the crimes proliferating in this area. And after it is reorganized like this, it would still need someone familiar with the area’s towns given the job to maintain it by searching out and linking new ET threads as they open. Here’s looking at you, Burblestein! At least it wouldn’t require you having to take on the authority to move threads around, but you would need to work closely with the one moving them back to their original positions. The links need to be gathered in one place and/or set up before the move, so these threads don’t disappear. Of course, anyone starting or noticing a new thread that needs to be linked can let him know about it.

Again, any other ideas before this reorganization gets under way? If not, I will send this post to Tricia later today or tomorrow as an update to my previous pm to her before folie pointed out the search issues.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

LOL ..Lilibert ... Your pretty awesome BTW on my 3rd cup and I'm still not alive yet ... so if my posts seem off kilter... blame it on the lack of Java kick start

Oh good Lawrdy .... the lack of emoji choices with the new release is another :can of worms: my wordings are not always the best but I can totally write a full sentence with emoji's and everyone understands what I'am saying ... So miss the :scared: emoji.

Truly I do understand the concept of the ET project forum and yes it is a great idea. IJMO the MP's data should have been linked the opposite way instead of moving all of their data over to an individual project forum.

I'm only a single individual ... their may be a mass following on the ET forum that I'm not aware of that would see things much differently and I do understand and respect that. However it works the best so be it sometimes you have to go with the flow

 

[Gardener1850]

Thank you folie (where is the blushing emoji?!)

Despite the fact that my head is spinning trying to figure out what fixes are needed....c’mon coffee get busy!...Gardener and folie have put forth great ideas. Let me see if I can list them so they make sense.

1) The actual threads should stay in (or go back to) their original places for search purposes. Picture Tricia and or Burblestein tearing out their hair! So our earlier discussion about only moving cold case threads over to ET is moot. To repeat...no threads should be physically moved.

2) They should somehow link to this forum, rather than creating a thread link sending people here to find the thread, as Burblestein has been so diligently doing. Any idea how that could be done? By post on the thread which will get buried or?

3) There can be a thread within the current category “Missing Persons Discussion” as described by Gardener, listing the missing persons in the ET who may be connected. This article might be a starter.
The Mystery of Humboldt County's Missing Women
Again, the individual’s threads would still live in their normal category like 1990’s missing, etc. and the link posted.

There may be more fixes I’ve missed so chime in please.

The resulting ET forum would still be organized by county and include both missing, murdered and serial killers...but only as links to the original threads in their appropriate locations. This would fulfill the ET forum’s original purpose of highlighting and making known the crimes proliferating in this area. And after it is reorganized like this, it would still need someone familiar with the area’s towns given the job to maintain it by searching out and linking new ET threads as they open. Here’s looking at you, Burblestein! At least it wouldn’t require you having to take on the authority to move threads around, but you would need to work closely with the one moving them back to their original positions. The links need to be gathered in one place and/or set up before the move, so these threads don’t disappear. Of course, anyone starting or noticing a new thread that needs to be linked can let him know about it.

Again, any other ideas before this reorganization gets under way? If not, I will send this post to Tricia later today or tomorrow as an update to my previous pm to her before folie pointed out the search issues.

Excellent summary @Lilibet . I like this plan SO much better than moving all the threads (sorry Tricia and Burblestein --Your next hair appointments are on me ) One little thing I wanted to mention in regards to the BBM-- by changing it so that we are only linking to the threads in the missing forums it takes the heavy responsibility off of one person to move threads or alert threads that need moved. And it removes the need for mods to move a thread here after it is created. ANYONE, any member at all, who sees a thread in the missing OR the crimes section that they think should be included can post a link to the thread in the appropriate location. Burblestein can still go about his business being awesome and linking all the threads here but if he misses one or wants to take a WS break (heaven forbid ) there will not automatically be a void where the threads here languish. Others can fill in. This will also encourage other members to post here and be involved-- anyone can post a link to a new case and give their theory on why they think it might belong here.

 

[Lilibet]

LOL ..Lilibert ... Your pretty awesome BTW on my 3rd cup and I'm still not alive yet ... so if my posts seem off kilter... blame it on the lack of Java kick start

Oh good Lawrdy .... the lack of emoji choices with the new release is another :can of worms: my wordings are not always the best but I can totally write a full sentence with emoji's and everyone understands what I'am saying ... So miss the :scared: emoji.

Truly I do understand the concept of the ET project forum and yes it is a great idea. IJMO the MP's data should have been linked the opposite way instead of moving all of their data over to an individual project forum.

I'm only a single individual ... their may be a mass following on the ET forum that I'm not aware of that would see things much differently and I do understand and respect that. However it works the best so be it sometimes you have to go with the flow

Ha ha! No mass following on the ET forum yet. Thank you for wanting to be accommodating, but the very important problem you’ve raised is crucial to the purpose and functioning of Websleuths, which is more important than a single forum. This search issue obviously never occurred to me, Burblestein or even Tricia, so I am really grateful that you brought it to our attention!