Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #16 *Arrest*

[Armchair snoop]

Troops, you like BR, forget the details of debt: insignificant.
Isn't it $1.4 million!
I guess another $0.2 is irrelevant for those with spare change, with $850 spare.

Might be called as a character witness.
bbm

 

[Armchair snoop]

Someone said a few days back why would prosecution hold back on any evidence to convince the court of a murder charge. I agree with you both here. I still think there’s more to come and I don’t think it will be a charge of manslaughter. Like I previously stated, the Police don’t just go around handing out murder charges unless they’re pretty damn sure. They did a lot of planning to get where we are now. There was months and months of building a case and compiling evidence.
IMO the smoking gun is yet to come.

Yes I think you're right Rosie, I reckon the prosecution has only put forward enough to ensure he goes to trial for murder and they are holding back the good stuff. Mr Fisher held back some good stuff until the last two days of the hearing to keep these facts fresh in our minds. I tell you what, I'm liking this Mr Fisher. I think I have a man crush.

 

[tmar]

Oh heck yes. Remember when the botanist gave his evidence at the Gerard Baden-Clay trial about the leaf litter in Allison's hair that matched the plant foliage from their backyard, but was no match to the foliage found along Kholo Creek or even upstream - that was just sensational. I really, really hope they have something of that order to put Borce away. With 22,000 pages of evidence, there has to be.

Somewhere here, it was also quoted, the number of pages has grown to 30,000.
If this is correct, maybe further great things will be produced, in the extras.

I remember the Ads, "extra, extra, read all about it", and it may apply here.

 

[tmar]

Yes I think you're right Rosie, I reckon the prosecution has only put forward enough to ensure he goes to trial for murder and they are holding back the good stuff. Mr Fisher held back some good stuff until the last two days of the hearing to keep these facts fresh in our minds. I tell you what, I'm liking this Mr Fisher. I think I have a man crush.

Watch it Armchair, the ladies here, 'picked him' first.
There are rules to follow here.

 

[Armchair snoop]

Watch it Armchair, the ladies here, 'picked him' first.
There are rules to follow here.

 

[deugirtni]

For BR's lawyer to ask for the charges to be reduced to manslaughter because there was not enough evidence to convict on 'murder'...... would that therefore mean that BR's lawyer believes there IS enough evidence to convict on manslaughter?

But Mr Hallowes conceded there was sufficient evidence for a jury to find Mr Ristevski guilty of manslaughter over the death of his wife, who disappeared from their Avondale Heights home on June 29, 2016.

'Insufficient weight': Magistrate asked to drop Ristevski murder charge

I would really really have hated for my lawyer to have said that publicly if *I* were BR!

I am a little unclear on the distinction between manslaughter and murder there, however I am understanding that it is to do with 'intent'? If one gets charged with 'murder', is a jury allowed to convict instead on the lesser crime of 'manslaughter' after going through the trial, or would it be that he must either be found guilty or not guilty of 'murder' only, if 'murder' was the charge?

If BR's own lawyer is saying there is enough evidence to convict on manslaughter, then that is saying there is enough evidence to prove that he killed her. Without evidence that it was an accident, or BR confessing that he did it without intending to do it (ie 'I slapped her in sudden, uncontrollable anger, but then she inadvertently fell backwards down the stairs and broke her neck), then how could a jury even guess that that was the case? A jury couldn't be expected to just guess at random possibilities for how it could have happened but unintended, could they?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Karen, a suburban fashion store owner, disappeared from the family's luxury home in Melbourne's north-west in June 2016, following a fight with Borce.

I would like to know, if proud BR every time he reads this bbm or "million dollar home" somewhere, has something like "an inner march past" .....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

where did Borce get $850 that morning to give to Karen to throw away on useless credit card debt?..

It's not the sort of money you find in your trouser pocket, usually.. specially a man with a shisha habit, AND a gambling habit, AND with 1.2 million dollars debt to wake up to, AND with an unco-operative wife AND with one of the family cars with a faulty fuel gauge.

Usually you would get this money out of the trouser pocket/designer bag/designer purse of your uncooperative wife, who suddenly this specific morning didn't want to leave it to you, come hell or high water. ....... Maybe, this would have been the true part of story.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

and some body with an enormous sense of humour got him a job on the RoadWorks crew, flagging drivers to slow down..

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am curious to know what Borce actually lived on all these years......thin air? rsbm
I doubt the DP, because when he finally saw the connection between income and outgo, Karen was dead, the house was rented out, the police were after him, and some body with an enormous sense of humour got him a job on the RoadWorks crew, flagging drivers to slow down.. which he held up until his inconvenient arrest.
So what was has he been doing since 2012?

Accountant.

 

[georgy girl]

Is there a chance that something might come out in evidence at a trial which could bring charges against someone else (Eg SR/VR) who might be involved in one way or another? Or would it be unlikely that the investigative team would be surprised by new information at that stage??

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Man changed gender on ID to save money on car insurance
The Canadian insisted he still identified as a man, but legally altered the gender on his birth certificate and drivers licence to save money.
“I’m a man, 100 per cent. Legally, I’m a woman,” said the man who CBC News identified as David.
“I did it for cheaper car insurance.”

BR wasn't quite up-to-date. He could have spared an amount of money perhaps.

 

[SouthAussie]

where did Borce get $850 that morning to give to Karen to throw away on useless credit card debt?..

It's not the sort of money you find in your trouser pocket, usually.. specially a man with a shisha habit, AND a gambling habit, AND with 1.2 million dollars debt to wake up to, AND with an unco-operative wife AND with one of the family cars with a faulty fuel gauge.

I think many of us always thought that the $850 may have been earnings from the shop. An amount of money that could be proved.

Of course, Borce likely then took that money, being the money-man in the businesses. But saying that Karen had the money when she disappeared would have been an excellent way for the money to disappear for (his) personal use.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is there a chance that something might come out in evidence at a trial which could bring charges against someone else (Eg SR/VR) who might be involved in one way or another? Or would it be unlikely that the investigative team would be surprised by new information at that stage??

This sentence made me curious about the involvement of anyone else. Perhaps it is not anything that can be unequivocally proved though - perhaps due to no positive ID of the four wheel drive/its rego number/the driver - hence no other person being charged for aiding Borce in the disposal of Karen and/or her personal items.


Day Three
Another witness, Glen Colfis, claimed he saw a Mercedes parked the wrong way in front of a four-wheel drive down a road in the Macedon Ranges on the morning of Karen's disappearance.
Day by day: The evidence in the Borce Ristevski committal hearing

 

[they'll get you]

The ATO should be all over this by now but the transfer of the house into Karen’s name and her now being deceased makes me wonder what happens with that now.
Was this his plan?

 

[sleepinoz]

Is there a chance that something might come out in evidence at a trial which could bring charges against someone else (Eg SR/VR) who might be involved in one way or another? Or would it be unlikely that the investigative team would be surprised by new information at that stage??

Anything is possible.

Maybe a witness will give some incriminating evidence that points to someone else, or the Prosecutors have something up their sleeve.

 

[sosocurious]

This sentence made me curious about the involvement of anyone else. Perhaps it is not anything that can be unequivocally proved though - perhaps due to no positive ID of the four wheel drive/its rego number/the driver - hence no other person being charged for aiding Borce in the disposal of Karen and/or her personal items.


Day Three
Another witness, Glen Colfis, claimed he saw a Mercedes parked the wrong way in front of a four-wheel drive down a road in the Macedon Ranges on the morning of Karen's disappearance.
Day by day: The evidence in the Borce Ristevski committal hearing

Sorry if this is a silly question.
Does Borce have to be found guilty of murder or plead guilty to the murder, before the police can charge someone for being an accessory before, during or after the fact?

Even if police have evidence of someone intentionally assisting in anyway to cover the murder or in him avoiding arrest. eg withheld information

Can they be charged before the person responsible is found guilty or admits guilt?

 

[Didi1201]

Going by evidence what is known to us BR could have been one merely assisting (driving to bushes to hide the body),
this is gonna be tough one to convict unless some of R's speaks out.
Every piece of evidence gathered through listening devices planted in their home should be taken with grain of salt simply because R's were aware conversation is being recorded and since they decided to stick together their goal is to confuse and misdirect investigators.

 

[sleepinoz]

Sorry if this is a silly question.
Does Borce have to be found guilty of murder or plead guilty to the murder, before the police can charge someone for being an accessory before, during or after the fact?

Even if police have evidence of someone intentionally assisting in anyway to cover the murder or in him avoiding arrest. eg withheld information

Can they be charged before the person responsible is found guilty or admits guilt?

No, he doesn't have to be found guilty for anyone else to be charged.....but.....if he was found guilty, and with evidence from a trial it would make it easier for the Prosecution to prove someone else was involved......IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Going by evidence what is known to us BR could have been one merely assisting (driving to bushes to hide the body),
this is gonna be tough one to convict unless some of R's speaks out.
Every piece of evidence gathered through listening devices planted in their home should be taken with grain of salt simply because R's were aware conversation is being recorded and since they decided to stick together their goal is to confuse and misdirect investigators.

Unless it can be proved that someone else was in their home that morning, I don't think it will be hard to convict at all.
Sarah apparently left at 8:15am for work, according to the MSM reports about the committal hearing.
Borce had been sleeping on the couch.
Sarah and the dog were with Karen, and Karen was cheerful, so apparently Karen was alive until 8:15am.
Borce left with Karen's remains not long after 10am.

Who else could possibly have been there to murder Karen?

Mother and daughter spoke on the morning of the disappearance. As their dog Benji jumped on the bed, Karen had seemed bubbly. Sarah, who'd had her 21st birthday party at their Avondale Heights home a month earlier, organised her lunch and left for work at 8.15am.
While everyone searched for his wife, an Aussie man kept mum

The alleged murder occurred between 8.58am and 10.43am on a Wednesday morning after the couple's then 21-year-old daughter Sarah had left home for work.
What Ristevski did on day his wife was allegedly killed