Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #36

[frogwell]

And that above in red italics, is exactly why I'm shaking my head in horror and disbelief that the charges were withdrawn.

The red italics charges went to trial and he was acquitted in NSW, which means there was reasonable doubt around those charges. We all know that JH went to jail at the end of January and the girls according to various papers were assaulted some time between March and May, ( please don't make me find the link many of you like to keep disregarding.) At the bail appeal, Justice Bellew said that it was a question of who and the medical reports do not indicate how old the injuries are. There was also going to be the significant issue of coaching to explore when the charges went to trial. The three year old said "Bill did it" however has no recollection of events. The brother of the victim's mother had access to the children and had his parole revoked, January 29th because he had locked himself in a toilet at work with a child and also thought he would have sex with his very young nieces because he was angry that everyone in his family was suspicious of him and he thought he would teach them a lesson. He had offended in this way before, he being the sole perpetrator in his other convicted crimes and since escalating to murder. Moo

 

[frogwell]

Well if I was in his shoes and had a water-tight alibi, I'd be proving it pretty darn quickly. IMO.

Lots of people don't have water tight alibis in many cases and I bet with all the people they have interviewed in regards to WT's case, SFR have come across a number as well. People don't always have an alibi that is verifiable.

 

[sleepinoz]

The red italics charges went to trial and he was acquitted in NSW, which means there was reasonable doubt around those charges. We all know that JH went to jail at the end of January and the girls according to various papers were assaulted some time between March and May, ( please don't make me find the link many of you like to keep disregarding.) At the bail appeal, Justice Bellew said that it was a question of who and the medical reports do not indicate how old the injuries are. There was also going to be the significant issue of coaching to explore when the charges went to trial. The three year old said "Bill did it" however has no recollection of events. The brother of the victim's mother had access to the children and had his parole revoked, January 29th because he had locked himself in a toilet at work with a child and also thought he would have sex with his very young nieces because he was angry that everyone in his family was suspicious of him and he thought he would teach them a lesson. He had offended in this way before, he being the sole perpetrator in his other convicted crimes and since escalating to murder. Moo

Is there proof that he was acquitted? None that I've ever seen. If you can say this so positively please provide a link.

The coaching is IMO a stupid remark, one of the girls was reported as saying she doesn't recollect anything - how is that possible if she was coached? I would imagine if she was coached, she would recall all that she had been told to say about "Bill".

In granting bail, Justice Geoffrey Bellew said one of the girls, who was three at the time of the alleged offence, had no recollection of it and "vague memories of youth" despite a 21-page statement.
Bill Spedding granted bail over child sex charges

 

[purpleandgreen]

Lots of people don't have water tight alibis in many cases and I bet with all the people they have interviewed in regards to WT's case, SFR have come across a number as well. People don't always have an alibi that is verifiable.

But Spedding ‘s claimed alibis were in the public eye. Wouldn’t be hard to verify that , or not. We’ve discussed this many times in the past, and still no proof that his alibi stands up. In fact, the fact that he’s still a POI verifies that SFR in fact hasn’t been able to verify it. IMO.

 

[frogwell]

Is there proof that he was acquitted? None that I've ever seen. If you can say this so positively please provide a link.

The coaching is IMO a stupid remark, one of the girls was reported as saying she doesn't recollect anything - how is that possible if she was coached? I would imagine if she was coached, she would recall all that she had been told to say about "Bill".

In granting bail, Justice Geoffrey Bellew said one of the girls, who was three at the time of the alleged offence, had no recollection of it and "vague memories of youth" despite a 21-page statement.
Bill Spedding granted bail over child sex charges

Yes there is proof, no I can't provide the link but it is easy to find. How is the coaching remark stupid, or who exactly are you referring to when using that word? As an adult, the victim has no recollection of events that occurred to her when she was three.

 

[frogwell]

deleted

 

[purpleandgreen]

Lots of people don't have water tight alibis in many cases and I bet with all the people they have interviewed in regards to WT's case, SFR have come across a number as well. People don't always have an alibi that is verifiable.

But if you were in public at a cafe and then at a school assembly, that’s VERY verifiable. IMO.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Yes there is proof, no I can't provide the link but it is easy to find. How is the coaching remark stupid, or who exactly are you referring to when using that word? As an adult, the victim has no recollection of events that occurred to her when she was three.

So if it’s easy to find, could you please find it? TIA

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes there is proof, no I can't provide the link but it is easy to find. How is the coaching remark stupid, or who exactly are you referring to when using that word? As an adult, the victim has no recollection of events that occurred to her when she was three.

If you can't provide a link, don't pretend it's the truth.

So if she has no recollection how was she coached?

 

[sleepinoz]

Oh she was coached to say she didn't remember? Great coaching

 

[frogwell]

If you can't provide a link, don't pretend it's the truth.

So if she has no recollection how was she coached?

I can provide a link, I chose not to, Seems there was the significant issue of the adult victim being coached as a child, she may not recall it however there may be evidence recorded of it at the time she was a child.

 

[SouthAussie]

At the bail appeal, Justice Bellew said that it was a question of who and the medical reports do not indicate how old the injuries are.

BBM I think this is a ridiculous statement by Justice Bellew. Maybe the reports did not state how old the injuries were exactly, likely an oversight in procedures from 30+ years ago, but black bruising is not from January 1987 when the medical examination was following the abuses in April/May 1987.
Some intelligent presumptions can be made that Hillsley was not the perpetrator when he was in prison in April/May.

She was 'ill and continually vomiting' the following day and had 'extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs', according to the Daily Telegraph.
At the time, the child sex assault unit at Westmead Hospital assessed the two children and determined that the three-year-old had been sexually penetrated in a number of ways.
The six-year-old's injuries were also ruled to have been caused by penetration.
Bill Spedding also named in William Tyrell case as links with paedophile ring | Daily Mail Online


Justice Bellew's conduct in this matter makes me feel that he should go back to representing leading NRL players in their manly world of manly concerns.

Geoff Bellew, who has represented leading players at the judiciary for more than 20 years, has taken his final NRL case.
Bellew, formerly a Senior Counsel, was yesterday appointed as a judge of the NSW Supreme Court - forever preventing him from appearing as counsel for footy players at Wednesday night judiciary hearings throughout the rugby league season.
Category: | The Courier Mail

 

[frogwell]

BBM I think this is a ridiculous statement by Justice Bellew. Maybe the reports did not state how old the injuries were exactly, likely an oversight in procedures from 30+ years ago, but black bruising is not from January 1987 when the medical examination was following the abuses in April/May 1987.
Some intelligent presumptions can be made that Hillsley was not the perpetrator when he was in prison in April/May.

She was 'ill and continually vomiting' the following day and had 'extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs', according to the Daily Telegraph.
At the time, the child sex assault unit at Westmead Hospital assessed the two children and determined that the three-year-old had been sexually penetrated in a number of ways.
The six-year-old's injuries were also ruled to have been caused by penetration.
Bill Spedding also named in William Tyrell case as links with paedophile ring | Daily Mail Online


Justice Bellew's conduct in this matter makes me feel that he should go back to representing leading NRL players in their manly world of manly concerns.

Geoff Bellew, who has represented leading players at the judiciary for more than 20 years, has taken his final NRL case.
Bellew, formerly a Senior Counsel, was yesterday appointed as a judge of the NSW Supreme Court - forever preventing him from appearing as counsel for footy players at Wednesday night judiciary hearings throughout the rugby league season.
Category: | The Courier Mail

And yet with medical reports, witness statements, i.d. of the perp and timelines of another convicted peddo in front of him/her another judge found reasonable doubt. What could have gone wrong in this case? Also, you are assuming that the witness statement to the injuries is the same as the medical report. That the hospital witnessed what the mother did.

 

[SouthAussie]

And yet with medical reports, witness statements, i.d. of the perp and timelines of another convicted peddo in front of him/her another judge found reasonable doubt. What could have gone wrong in this case? Also, you are assuming that the witness statement to the injuries is the same as the medical report. That the hospital witnessed what the mother did.

I think this is what went awry in this case, giving a platform for a defence lawyer to create reasonable doubt ........

"There is evidence of other adult offenders who are complicit in similar child sex offences both independently and in conjunction with the accused in this matter," the police fact sheet states.
William Tyrrell person of interest Bill Spedding 'had links to paedophile ring', police allege

What other injuries could Bellew be talking about? The injuries in this matter were the ones that were documented in the medical reports. Westmead Hospital assessed the children at the time, at the time that the youngest one had extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs, as per the link I provided.

 

[purpleandgreen]

I can provide a link, I chose not to, Seems there was the significant issue of the adult victim being coached as a child, she may not recall it however there may be evidence recorded of it at the time she was a child.

When you can provide a link, it will validate your statement. I find it quite puzzling that you choose not to. Why on earth would that be?

 

[purpleandgreen]

The red italics charges went to trial and he was acquitted in NSW, which means there was reasonable doubt around those charges. We all know that JH went to jail at the end of January and the girls according to various papers were assaulted some time between March and May, ( please don't make me find the link many of you like to keep disregarding.) At the bail appeal, Justice Bellew said that it was a question of who and the medical reports do not indicate how old the injuries are. There was also going to be the significant issue of coaching to explore when the charges went to trial. The three year old said "Bill did it" however has no recollection of events. The brother of the victim's mother had access to the children and had his parole revoked, January 29th because he had locked himself in a toilet at work with a child and also thought he would have sex with his very young nieces because he was angry that everyone in his family was suspicious of him and he thought he would teach them a lesson. He had offended in this way before, he being the sole perpetrator in his other convicted crimes and since escalating to murder. Moo

Can’t respond, sorry. Way too much text without paragraphs. I find it too difficult to read.

BTW. This is not a criticism. Just a statement of fact.

 

[frogwell]

I think this is what went awry in this case, giving a platform for a defence lawyer to create reasonable doubt ........

"There is evidence of other adult offenders who are complicit in similar child sex offences both independently and in conjunction with the accused in this matter," the police fact sheet states.
William Tyrrell person of interest Bill Spedding 'had links to paedophile ring', police allege

What other injuries could Bellew be talking about? The injuries in this matter were the ones that were documented in the medical reports. Westmead Hospital assessed the children at the time, at the time that the youngest one had extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs, as per the link I provided.

Court documents reveal that the mother and grandmother of the victim recall the three-year-old being greatly troubled by pain in her vagina and telling them that 'Bill did it', according to SMH.

She was 'ill and continually vomiting' the following day and had 'extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs', according to the Daily Telegraph.

At the time, the child sex assault unit at Westmead Hospital assessed the two children and determined that the three-year-old had been sexually penetrated in a number of ways.

So my understanding from the way this is reported is that upon recalling the events from over 25 years ago, the three year old nominated the pain she was experiencing to Bill. She said this to her mother and grandmother. There is also an account of the injuries the mother saw, don't know if that is from the time the injuries occurred or when Strikforce Rosann interviewed her over 25 years later. The children may well not have presented with the same looking injuries when they attended hospital, and the description of the injuries at the hospital could be quite different. IMO

 

[sosocurious]

I would like to see some evidence he was acquitted. I would have thought that would have been reported in the media. Just as the Victorian charges being withdrawn were.

Was it that same person that was said to be coached when she was three years old. That Bill asked to sign the declaration that he did not abuse her when she was a child? Or was that someone else?

 

[frogwell]

Yes I would like to see some evidence he was acquitted.

Was it that same person that was said to be coached when she was three years old. That Bill asked to sign the declaration that he did not abuse her when she was a child? Or was that someone else?

All I can say to that is, if you really want to find that evidence of acquittal then you will go looking for it. Yes, same 3 year old he asked for a stat dec from. He had a relationship with her at the time of asking for the stat dec and was probably surprised that she had the ideas about him that she does, particularly as she has no memory of events as a three year old. Is this three year old who was victimised as a child the same vulnerable adult that was leaned heavily upon by the strikeforce to give evidence in this case cause it might help a missing child?

 

[sosocurious]

All I can say to that is, if you really want to find that evidence of acquittal then you will go looking for it. Yes, same 3 year old he asked for a stat dec from. He had a relationship with her at the time of asking for the stat dec and was probably surprised that she had the ideas about him that she does, particularly as she has no memory of events as a three year old. Is this three year old who was victimised as a child the same vulnerable adult that was leaned heavily upon by the strikeforce to give evidence in this case cause it might help a missing child?

Go looking - directions
That is what I do not understand. Why would Bill lean on her and ask her to sign to something that she can't remember.