Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #36

[purpleandgreen]

All I can say to that is, if you really want to find that evidence of acquittal then you will go looking for it. Yes, same 3 year old he asked for a stat dec from. He had a relationship with her at the time of asking for the stat dec and was probably surprised that she had the ideas about him that she does, particularly as she has no memory of events as a three year old. Is this three year old who was victimised as a child the same vulnerable adult that was leaned heavily upon by the strikeforce to give evidence in this case cause it might help a missing child?

Would be much easier if you just supplied a link to the evidence, if you have it, please. TIA

 

[Bohemian]

Poor BS. My heart bleeds for him. And all the while a little three year old boy named William is missing in suspicious circumstances, and has possibly been murdered.

 

[SouthAussie]

Poor BS. My heart bleeds for him. And all the while a little three year old boy named William is missing in suspicious circumstances, and has possibly been murdered.

Couldn't agree with you more.

He still remains a primary POI in William's disappearance, and no matter the twisting and turning he does to get out of his court charges, manipulate social media, and take revenge on MSM for his 'personal suffering'

.... he will get no sympathy from me until/unless he is cleared of his POI status.

 

[Bohemian]

Couldn't agree with you more.

He still remains a primary POI in William's disappearance, and no matter the twisting and turning he does to get out of his court charges, manipulate social media, and take revenge on MSM for his 'personal suffering'

.... he will get no sympathy from me until/unless he is cleared of his POI status.

Ditto.

 

[SouthAussie]

The children may well not have presented with the same looking injuries when they attended hospital, and the description of the injuries at the hospital could be quite different. IMO

Sorry, I can't believe that would be the case at all. That is not how the media has reported it. The article clearly says at the time, speaking of when the young girl was vomitting, complaining of vaginal pain, had black vaginal and leg bruising.

The articles have not even mentioned another episode of abuse to do with these charges. So why on earth would they repeat claims from the mother and grandmother to do with anything else, at any other time?

Is the grandmother still alive, to make newer claims? Or is she one of the deceased witnesses?

 

[frogwell]

The mother and grandmother have been quoted from their statements. We have not got any information quo

Sorry, I can't believe that would be the case at all. That is not how the media has reported it. The article clearly says at the time, speaking of when the young girl was vomitting, complaining of vaginal pain, had black vaginal and leg bruising.

The articles have not even mentioned another episode of abuse to do with these charges. So why on earth would they repeat claims from the mother and grandmother to do with anything else, at any other time?

Is the grandmother still alive, to make newer claims? Or is she one of the deceased witnesses?

I think the article is as clear as mud. The mother and grandmother recall the three year old coming to them and complaining of pain and saying "Bill did it." This implies to me that they could have recalled this incident 25 plus years later when Strikeforce Rosann detectives interviewed them. At the time, in this article can refer to the time period of 25 plus years ago, but it is also a very vague time frame. All that is quoted about the medical reports is that the hospital attained that both the child victims injuries were due to penetration. The condition they presented to the mother is described in the article. It is alluded to in her statement that she went to get medical help pretty much after discovering the injuries. I am suggesting that she might have waited longer before seeking medical help. Similar injuries must have presented to her before on her older daughter when they were living in Victoria if this has happened to her before. Also in the article is outlined evidence of other adults being involved, separately and in conjunction with the defendant. Where is the evidence and charges about that? IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I would like to see some evidence he was acquitted. I would have thought that would have been reported in the media. Just as the Victorian charges being withdrawn were.

Personally, I think that the 'evidence' is rumours and postings on social media ... which are not allowed here because we all know they can be very incorrect. Otherwise, why would links not be provided?

And like you, I think the media would be reporting on any acquittal. There would be no reason to suppress an acquittal, once the Victorian charges were dismissed.
There is more to this story.

 

[SouthAussie]

The mother and grandmother have been quoted from their statements. We have not got any information quo


I think the article is as clear as mud. The mother and grandmother recall the three year old coming to them and complaining of pain and saying "Bill did it." This implies to me that they could have recalled this incident 25 plus years later when Strikeforce Rosann detectives interviewed them. At the time, in this article can refer to the time period of 25 plus years ago, but it is also a very vague time frame. All that is quoted about the medical reports is that the hospital attained that both the child victims injuries were due to penetration. The condition they presented to the mother is described in the article. It is alluded to in her statement that she went to get medical help pretty much after discovering the injuries. I am suggesting that she might have waited longer before seeking medical help. Similar injuries must have presented to her before on her older daughter when they were living in Victoria if this has happened to her before. Also in the article is outlined evidence of other adults being involved, separately and in conjunction with the defendant. Where is the evidence and charges about that? IMO

I can't discuss this any more. I have spoken my piece, relying on MSM info, as per TOS. Neither you nor I know the entirety of what was in those medical reports, or the 21 page statement by the youngest victim.

We only know that the medical reports did not indicate when the injuries occurred, and evidently Justice Bellew has opted not to determine that 2+2=4. He was not impartial in this case, and I am personally extremely disappointed in his judicial conduct.

Nothing that we have read indicates that the injuries were not inflicted immediately preceding the medical examination. It would make complete sense, when a child is vomitting, heavily bruised and in pain, to take them to the doctor/hospital.

imo

Police said charges were not pursued at that time "due to concerns of the welfare of the victims given their tender age".
William Tyrrell person of interest Bill Spedding 'had links to paedophile ring', police allege

 

[SouthAussie]

Is there proof that he was acquitted? None that I've ever seen. If you can say this so positively please provide a link.

The coaching is IMO a stupid remark, one of the girls was reported as saying she doesn't recollect anything - how is that possible if she was coached? I would imagine if she was coached, she would recall all that she had been told to say about "Bill".

In granting bail, Justice Geoffrey Bellew said one of the girls, who was three at the time of the alleged offence, had no recollection of it and "vague memories of youth" despite a 21-page statement.
Bill Spedding granted bail over child sex charges

Makes me wonder if the younger woman underwent hypnosis, to recall suppressed memories. It is highly unusual to not be able to clearly remember much of your own youth.
There had to be something in that 21 page statement ... much more than "I can't remember".

 

[frogwell]

My suspicion falls around this witness, how much truth did this witness tell and how many lies. Has she used William's case and the Task Force? I think she has. She has definitely been used by the Task Force moo

"A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

Documents presented during his bail hearing show a woman who forms a key part of the police case against him was previously found by a judge to have “a propensity to make allegations of misconduct of various kinds” against men.

The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

The judge found the witness may also have sought to influence the evidence of the children allegedly involved, the court documents show.

The witness, who has separately alleged Mr Spedding committed the offences for which he currently faces charges, was “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre”, the judge said."

Nocookies

Just for the record, to clarify to those who do not know or remember, Justice Bellow did not describe a key witness in these terms. Justice Bellow presided over BS bail appeal. During the bail appeal documents were submitted about this key witness from a previous court case. It is that judge's comments about the key witness that were quoted in this article as, "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre." I can see for those who are getting onto this case later how the mistake could be made that Judge Bellew was making unprofessional comments about this witness. That is not what happened. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Just for the record, to clarify to those who do not know or remember, Justice Bellow did not describe a key witness in these terms. Justice Bellow presided over BS bail appeal. During the bail appeal documents were submitted about this key witness from a previous court case. It is that judge's comments about the key witness that were quoted in this article as, "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre." I can see for those who are getting onto this case later how the mistake could be made that Judge Bellew was making unprofessional comments about this witness. That is not what happened. IMO

I am glad you said IMO. I have read that article, and it does not state the name of the judge who made those untoward comments. So, I guess we cannot be positive if it was Bellew or someone else who conducted themselves so unprofessionally.

This is the article I read ...
Witness against Bill Spedding described as ‘bizarre, obsessive’
The Australian - June 27, 2015

However, tendering such a document is in itself an unprofessional move, by whoever introduced it into this case. As my previous post about this indicated, and as per links provided, previous cases and comments such as this should not be allowed in any hearing or trial, as they may prejudice the accused or prosecution's case.

Justice Bellew's position needed to be that the info should have been suppressed and not included.

 

[frogwell]

I am glad you said IMO. I have read that article, and it does not state the name of the judge who made those untoward comments. So, I guess we cannot be positive if it was Bellew or someone else who conducted themselves so unprofessionally.

This is the article I read ...
Witness against Bill Spedding described as ‘bizarre, obsessive’
The Australian - June 27, 2015

I cannot access the full article, however i believe I have clear recollection of this on other threads when these comments were published . The documents, with the comments were from family? court proceedings.

Just went back to thread 13 around page 3 for discussion on this article. You are right, the judge isn't specified, however I took the opinion of a solicitor at the time who registered on websleuths, under the pseudonym ksks, that they look like the opinions of a family law court judge, as they were part of introduced documents in a bail appeal.

 

[SouthAussie]

I cannot access the full article, however i believe I have clear recollection of this on other threads when these comments were published . The documents, with the comments were from family? court proceedings.

It only says "court documents reveal .... "
It does not say who tendered the documents.

As I stated above, documents such as this are prejudicial and should not have been tendered in any hearing.
If I was to make an educated guess, I would say that the defence would have slipped them in, hoping that they would not be disallowed.

 

[frogwell]

It only says "court documents reveal .... "
It does not say who tendered the documents.

As I stated above, documents such as this are prejudicial and should not have been tendered in any hearing.
If I was to make an educated guess, I would say that the defence would have slipped them in, hoping that they would not be disallowed.

It was a bail appeal, not a hearing. Maybe those types of documents are allowed in such proceedings, the way unsubstantiated allegations dressed up as evidence have been allowed through in bail proceedings. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

It was a bail appeal, not a hearing. Maybe those types of documents are allowed in such proceedings, the way unsubstantiated allegations dressed up as evidence have been allowed through in bail proceedings. MOO

It was a Supreme Court bail application. It has no place in a bail hearing. A bail hearing is just to determine if the accused is a flight risk, or a danger to society, and in this case Bellew decided that Spedding needed to be allowed out on bail while staying away from children to 'prepare his case'. Of course, after he was refused his first application before a magistrate.

This is the outline of a bail hearing, if you are unsure.

What Happens in a Bail Application | Criminal Law | Armstrong Legal

 

[iailwa]

For layman’s sake wth is going on now? My eyesight is fading too. What is BS’s fate ?

 

[Bohemian]

For layman’s sake wth is going on now? My eyesight is fading too. What is BS’s fate ?

To remain a POI in William’s case, until he is publicly cleared.

 

[Bohemian]

I cannot access the full article, however i believe I have clear recollection of this on other threads when these comments were published . The documents, with the comments were from family? court proceedings.

Just went back to thread 13 around page 3 for discussion on this article. You are right, the judge isn't specified, however I took the opinion of a solicitor at the time who registered on websleuths, under the pseudonym ksks, that they look like the opinions of a family law court judge, as they were part of introduced documents in a bail appeal.

BBM.

Just for the record, ksks was a registered member of WS, just like you or I, who purported themselves to be a lawyer. The member was not verified as actually being a lawyer by WS’ staff AFAIK. There is a difference.

 

[Bohemian]

Makes me wonder if the younger woman underwent hypnosis, to recall suppressed memories. It is highly unusual to not be able to clearly remember much of your own youth.
There had to be something in that 21 page statement ... much more than "I can't remember".

Under normal circumstances, I would agree, SA. I’ve been told by trauma-aware psychologists that if children are traumatised during childhood, it is quite normal for them to compartmentalise those traumatic memories as a protective measure. This compartmentalisation can occur even in adulthood, which is not to say the traumatic memories and the consequences of acknowledging childhood trauma can’t be integrated over time (with the the assistance of a trained trauma-aware therapist). Until then, traumatic memories are often experienced as flashbacks, feelings of unease, or even panic, in situations that are sometimes only vaguely reminiscent of those when the original trauma occurred. (Take this from someone who lives with Complex Trauma AKA Complex PTSD.)

Further reading:

Impacts of Complex Trauma

If anyone needs assistance (in Australia):

Blue Knot Helpline
Phone: 1300 657 380
Email: helpline@blueknot.org.au
Hours: Mon-Sun, 9am-5pm AEST
Website link: Supporting adult survivors of childhood trauma & abuse

 

[Deleted member 102539]

She was 'ill and continually vomiting' the following day and had 'extensive, black coloured bruising to her vagina and legs', according to the Daily Telegraph.
At the time, the child sex assault unit at Westmead Hospital assessed the two children and determined that the three-year-old had been sexually penetrated in a number of ways.
The six-year-old's injuries were also ruled to have been caused by penetration.
Bill Spedding also named in William Tyrell case as links with paedophile ring | Daily Mail Online

I remember, the 6 yo was also pushed onto a wall or onto the floor (from the bed) and was present all the time certainly. What's with her memory re her little sister?
Most important in case BS would be: which document (medical, phsychological) got lost during the time and why and who is to blame and to whom had this person a connection?