Prince Harry and Meghan Markle to marry in the spring #2

[Betty P]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. What makes me somewhat sad for her father is that he probably has no one to talk to about how hurt he is. Confiding in his other children is of no help to him. He's lashing out and causing further alienation. I hope he gets some counselling. To feel rejected with the world watching can't be easy. If he had a trusted and wise person to share his feelings with he wouldn't have gone to the media.

It's always difficult dealing with someone who has a narcissistic personality disorder, as Meghan seems to have. They're very manipulative people who are experts at using people then turning on them when they're no longer useful.

Per this definition from the Mayo Clinic web site, some symptoms of NPD

• Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people (hence the need to drop people from their lives as they climb higher on the social ladder)
• Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
• Take advantage of others to get what they want
• Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others

Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

Narcissism may be something that MM learned from her own father and others as she grew up. Not too surprising, considering the environment she was raised in - the entertainment industry where people are known for having big egos.

Also some information about narcissistic abuse between adults:

Narcissistic abuse - Wikipedia

Narcissists also engage in insidious, manipulative abuse by giving subtle hints and comments that result in the victim questioning their own behavior and thoughts. This is termed gaslighting.[30] Another common abusive tactic is underhanded public humiliation, when the narcissist says something seemingly neutral but offensive to the victim and enjoys the emotional reaction. This is called dog-whistling. Any slight criticism of the narcissist, whether actual or perceived, often triggers narcissistic rage and full-blown annihilation from the narcissistic person. This can take the form of screaming tirades, silent treatment or quiet sabotage (setting traps, refusing communication, hiding belongings, spreading rumors, etc.).

The discard phase can be swift and occurs once the narcissistic supply is obtained elsewhere. In romantic relationships, the narcissistic supply can be acquired by having affairs. The new partner is in the idealization phase and only witnesses the ideal self; thus once again the cycle of narcissistic abuse begins. Narcissists do not take responsibility for relationship difficulties and exhibit no feelings of remorse. Instead they believe themselves to be the victim in the relationship[31] as because of their self-debasing projections, their partner can only ever fail to meet their expectations.

 

[vulture]

I don't think refusing to associate with abusive people is a sign that you think you are superior, I think it's a sign you want to be healthy. If other people want to act decently and come along, great. If they want to stay in abuse mode, they can stay behind. I think siding with the abusers says a lot about a person - many people in the media are trying to bully a person into associating with abusive people. In my opinion they are doing this because there is a way to make money from it, or they sympathize with the abusers because that is the role they play in other people's lives and they want justification for their behavior and for society in general to accept abuse. I am saying no. I've had to deal with this in my own life. Anyone who insists that I make contact with my abusive brother is cut out. Fortunately no one important dares do that where I can hear about it. But I am willing to let go anyone who crosses that line. It's not morally right in my opinion and I do not accept it. I have had to limit contact with my Dad because my brother tries to manipulate him into things that are bad for me. This happened again a few weeks ago when my Dad gave the phone to my brother when I was talking to him when I said I did not want to talk to my brother. So I haven't called him again and I don't tell him any sensitive information. If he calls I answer but as soon as he conveys necessary information I politely end the call. I'm not famous and no media is interested in hearing what I said to him so at least I don't have to worry about that!

 

[vulture]

In my post above, it sounds like I was implying my Dad is not important. He was important. We were like best friends for awhile after my Mom died. I grieved the relationship last fall and I'm content with being in polite but not close mode. If I let myself get sucked in again I will get my hopes up again and I will have to grieve the relationship again. I don't want to go through the cycle again, I am done. When people are done, they are done, and I think that decision should be respected. It's no one else's business and no one else knows the whole story.

 

[Betty P]

I don't think refusing to associate with abusive people is a sign that you think you are superior, I think it's a sign you want to be healthy. If other people want to act decently and come along, great. If they want to stay in abuse mode, they can stay behind. I think siding with the abusers says a lot about a person - many people in the media are trying to bully a person into associating with abusive people. In my opinion they are doing this because there is a way to make money from it, or they sympathize with the abusers because that is the role they play in other people's lives and they want justification for their behavior and for society in general to accept abuse. I am saying no. I've had to deal with this in my own life. Anyone who insists that I make contact with my abusive brother is cut out. Fortunately no one important dares do that where I can hear about it. But I am willing to let go anyone who crosses that line. It's not morally right in my opinion and I do not accept it. I have had to limit contact with my Dad because my brother tries to manipulate him into things that are bad for me. This happened again a few weeks ago when my Dad gave the phone to my brother when I was talking to him when I said I did not want to talk to my brother. So I haven't called him again and I don't tell him any sensitive information. If he calls I answer but as soon as he conveys necessary information I politely end the call. I'm not famous and no media is interested in hearing what I said to him so at least I don't have to worry about that!

I agree with what you're saying. But I'm basing my opinion on MM's prior behavior. There's no evidence nor any reports that her father treated her badly any time in her life. JMO, she triggered his current outspoken behavior by deliberately leaving him out of her communications early in the process of becoming engaged to PH. Unless she's not very bright, she knew her actions would publicly humiliate and upset him and likely cause him to speak out. It's a form of "gaslighting", as in the link above. MM is passive-aggressive in how she deals with her father, sometimes doing things to deliberately upset him, but in a very sneaky, underhanded way. Sadly, it's not unusual behavior for people in the entertainment subculture, I guess it's how actors, etc. get ahead and have successful careers.

In that sense, it's probably better if MM's father limits his contact with her as she will likely continue the same behavior. Walk away, write her off, get some counseling and go enjoy his life without her. She will only continue to try to set him up, trigger him and try to humiliate him publicly. Of course, that's a tall order, as the news media will constantly hound him simply because he's related to her. Terrible situation for Mr Markle to be in, very stressful no matter what you say or do you can't escape it. Must be a constant nightmare having the press chasing you everywhere, no privacy, etc, seeing your daughter insult you in the world news media every week. All the downside, none of the benefits.

I hope he is getting some help in dealing with it. MM is the one who has a history of dumping people when she no longer needs them.

 

[rosemadderlake]

While I totally agree, the tabloid press is rabid, brutal, and no one knows this better than Princess Di's sons, Meghan's mother has carried herself with respect and dignity, and Meghan's father jumped on the bitter train of the half sister. And sold both himself and his daughter out when he partnered with TMZ selling his pictures, dishing on conversations with Harry, and painting himself as some kind of victim.

He was supposed to walk his daughter down the isle. Meghan included him.

For all I know his hospitalization was scripted. He obviously has terrible self esteem issues. He is the parent. Any parent would be proud of a daughter who worked hard, became independent, and just so happened to meet a prince.

It's Mr. Markle's extremely toxic behavior, raking Harry into the mix, while being paid for it that has sent his daughter running in the opposite direction.

She does not owe him a tabloid reunion, intervention, or therapy session, and there's no question or guarantee that he's not in kahoots with these rags to set up and continue all this drama.

Meghan and Harry deserve a chance at happiness. And Mr Markle and that horrid half sister have shown no intention of letting her have that. I feel for her. She's been really strong under the pressure of navigating the royal family, and dealing with the heartbreak that is her father.

I'm glad her Mom is coming to England. Doria seems like a very gentle and grounding influence.

 

[PaulR]

I agree with what you're saying. But I'm basing my opinion on MM's prior behavior. There's no evidence nor any reports that her father treated her badly any time in her life.

That is what is literally happening now. He's acting like an overprotective and manipulative parent. Not just that, he is using the global media to do so.

I've known narcissists and been used by them. When they leave - frankly good. Who cares. I'm better off. Who complains about a manipulative person not talking to them anymore?

 

[Lilibet]

I agree with what you're saying. But I'm basing my opinion on MM's prior behavior. There's no evidence nor any reports that her father treated her badly any time in her life. JMO, she triggered his current outspoken behavior by deliberately leaving him out of her communications early in the process of becoming engaged to PH. Unless she's not very bright, she knew her actions would publicly humiliate and upset him and likely cause him to speak out. It's a form of "gaslighting", as in the link above. MM is passive-aggressive in how she deals with her father, sometimes doing things to deliberately upset him, but in a very sneaky, underhanded way. Sadly, it's not unusual behavior for people in the entertainment subculture, I guess it's how actors, etc. get ahead and have successful careers.

In that sense, it's probably better if MM's father limits his contact with her as she will likely continue the same behavior. Walk away, write her off, get some counseling and go enjoy his life without her. She will only continue to try to set him up, trigger him and try to humiliate him publicly. Of course, that's a tall order, as the news media will constantly hound him simply because he's related to her. Terrible situation for Mr Markle to be in, very stressful no matter what you say or do you can't escape it. Must be a constant nightmare having the press chasing you everywhere, no privacy, etc, seeing your daughter insult you in the world news media every week. All the downside, none of the benefits.

I hope he is getting some help in dealing with it. MM is the one who has a history of dumping people when she no longer needs them.

I’ve looked for reports to back up your claim that Meghan deliberately left her father out of the communications early in the process of becoming engaged and I can’t find anything. You say with a JMO that it triggered his current behavior. But he was fine before the wedding (except for humiliating her with staged paparazzi photos, despite which she still wanted him to walk her down the aisle).

What actions publicly humiliated him and caused him to speak out? He started this after the wedding fiasco.

How does she deliberately set him up, trigger him, gaslight him in a sneaky, underhanded way?

Where does she insult him in the media every week?

Who are the “people” she has historically dumped when she no longer needs them?

The truth is, not one of us is knowledgeable about any of their private communication. Nor have we been given the details of why she ended her marriage or any other relationship.

Where are you getting this? Are you privy to private info? Do you know the Markles?

 

[JDG]

Some people put far too much importance on the innuendo and rumours started and perpetuated by the rags such as the Daily Mail.

When you see news in the more reliable MSM, you can start to believe it.

DM is only good for lining the parrots cage.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I’ve looked for reports to back up your claim that Meghan deliberately left her father out of the communications early in the process of becoming engaged and I can’t find anything. You say with a JMO that it triggered his current behavior. But he was fine before the wedding (except for humiliating her with staged paparazzi photos, despite which she still wanted him to walk her down the aisle).

What actions publicly humiliated him and caused him to speak out? He started this after the wedding fiasco.

How does she deliberately set him up, trigger him, gaslight him in a sneaky, underhanded way?

Where does she insult him in the media every week?

Who are the “people” she has historically dumped when she no longer needs them?

The truth is, not one of us is knowledgeable about any of their private communication. Nor have we been given the details of why she ended her marriage or any other relationship.

Where are you getting this? Are you privy to private info? Do you know the Markles?

Thank you for your thoughtful post. As much as I enjoy checking this thread daily, I'm not comfortable reading posts that suggest that Meghan is a narcissist and that she has caused the rifts with her estranged family members. Their obnoxious behavior is cringeworthy, and Harry and Meghan are wise to turn a blind eye and deaf ear on the family spectacle.

 

[Betty P]

I’ve looked for reports to back up your claim that Meghan deliberately left her father out of the communications early in the process of becoming engaged and I can’t find anything. You say with a JMO that it triggered his current behavior. But he was fine before the wedding (except for humiliating her with staged paparazzi photos, despite which she still wanted him to walk her down the aisle).

What actions publicly humiliated him and caused him to speak out? He started this after the wedding fiasco.

How does she deliberately set him up, trigger him, gaslight him in a sneaky, underhanded way?

Where does she insult him in the media every week?

Who are the “people” she has historically dumped when she no longer needs them?

The truth is, not one of us is knowledgeable about any of their private communication. Nor have we been given the details of why she ended her marriage or any other relationship.

Where are you getting this? Are you privy to private info? Do you know the Markles?

Well, ok, here are some links:

PH & MM, after announcing their engagement, traveled to Canada and visited with her mother, were seen at an event, posed for photos

Palace: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle announce engagement

Where Did Prince Harry Ask Meghan Markle’s Mom for Permission to Propose?

They did not make a similar personal visit with her father, he only received a phone call in which PH asked for his daughter's hand, etc.

PH, did, however, sit down personally with MM's mother to ask for permission to marry MM

Prince Harry Asked for Permission from Meghan Markle’s Mom Before He Proposed

No mention of MM's father in any of these news stories. That had to hurt his feelings, obviously. Especially if this was a pattern of past behavior, yes, MM would know this would hurt his feelings and trigger some kind of reaction from him. At the very least it was inconsiderate, insensitive behavior on her part.

Up until this point, TM had not spoken much to the news media and never said anything publicly critical of MM or PH.

The pap photos were a mistake and he apologized, but perhaps he was doing it to get her attention. She had very little communication with him before or after the engagement was announced, as opposed to public appearances, etc. with her mother. It's easy to see how he (and the paps) would consider that public humiliation. Instead, he had to deal with paps following him around, taking photos of him buying fast food, etc. They (paps) seemed to pick up on his outsider status with MM and sought to exploit it. She did nothing publicly to dispel it or protect him, other than, apparently, call and chastise him for talking to the paps.

Public humiliation and triggering since the wedding:

Well the news media is full of that, a simple google search will turn it up

Meghan Markle hurt after dad Thomas hung up on Prince Harry

Plenty of it out there, official statements as well as messages sent to the news media from representatives.

It all could have been handled much better, but it wasn't.

ETA: I'm not defending MM's siblings, only pointing out the actions that seemed to cause such problems with her father vs with her mother.

 

[vulture]

I've known narcissists and been used by them. When they leave - frankly good. Who cares. I'm better off. Who complains about a manipulative person not talking to them anymore?

You understand it. My Dad called me a few weeks ago to see if I'd reconsider letting my brother come to my wedding. I said I told you both months ago what the path to reconciliation is and it has not even been attempted. I reminded him that the victim decides what the path to reconciliation is, not the abuser. My Dad said aren't you sad that our family is not like a real family any more and I said (in so many words) yes but I already grieved that. I'm not that sad right now. I'm not going to be thinking about who is not at the wedding, I will be thinking about who is there and how grateful I am for them. Having the abuse back in my life will not make me happier, these last several months without the abuse have been the best I've had in years. I don't want the old days back. You and my brother may be missing something by not having me in your lives but I am not missing anything healthy by staying away from you guys and if I want my marriage to work I have to learn to live life in a different way than in my family of origin.

A year ago I would have been in floods of tears just at the thought of saying something like the above to my Dad. I said it all calmly with little emotion. That shows how far I have come. I don't want to go backwards.

None of what I said above stops me from being cordial to my Dad. It stops me from getting into situations where they both manipulate me.

I think my path to reconciliation is reasonable. My brother is requested to:

1. Apologize to me for abusive behavior.
2. Apologize to my fiance (who will be my husband this Sat.) for abusive behavior.
3. I have to be convinced my fiance really accepts the apology and is not just going along with it. I have told everyone that a condition of marrying me is NOT going to include enduring abuse.
4. He has to apologize to my Dad and Dad has to let me know he accepts the apology.
5. He has to stop abusing my Dad.
6. He has to pay back the money he stole from my Dad.

I will not get up in a church in front of everyone I know and God and make vows that I'm going to let my family undermine. In my church marriage vows are a sacrament and I will not blaspheme the sacrament by pretending to have values that I won't at least try to live by. I take this seriously. I don't know what is in Meghan's heart and mind when it comes to her vows but here is what I do know. She was recently baptized and she is a member of a church and she was married in a sacred place in a serious religious ceremony. I have no knowledge that she does not take her vows as seriously as I'm going to take mine. Although it is not the same church as mine, it is the same God. I don't agree with undermining anyone else's (benevolent) religious ceremonies. The community at large is supposed to uphold and support the marriages of others. People who don't want to do that should not be at the wedding and should not be in the lives of the couple. I've been reading up on this stuff lately for obvious reasons and being more aware of what the ceremony means in the religious sense. I don't like seeing people try to ruin someone else's marriage for profit or for sport.

 

[vulture]

It all could have been handled much better, but it wasn't.

ETA: I'm not defending MM's siblings, only pointing out the actions that seemed to cause such problems with her father vs with her mother.

In my opinion what you are basing your opinions on is no better than gossip or rumor. Unless you witnessed what happened, you don't really know. I don't either. The media is not a primary source of evidence. They write what they write to make you click on it so they can sell ads - that's all the significance it has - entertainment to sell advertising.

 

[PaulR]

If TM was abusive towards MM, her avoiding him makes a lot of sense.

 

[JDG]

Betty P. Quoting from People magazine and USA Today is not quoting from MSM.

Its all gossip and written to sell magazines. Nothing more.

They make 'stuff' up and elaborate beyond belief.

I can assure you the RF don't read any of it and the 'sources' are rubbish.

Yellow journalism at its worst. Might as well be quoting the DM.

 

[Betty P]

In my opinion what you are basing your opinions on is no better than gossip or rumor. Unless you witnessed what happened, you don't really know. I don't either. The media is not a primary source of evidence. They write what they write to make you click on it so they can sell ads - that's all the significance it has - entertainment to sell advertising.

Sorry you disagree, but everything I posted has been reported in mainstream news media.

True, though, none of this stuff is worth spending any time discussing. It's silly celebrity stuff and I do chide myself for wasting my time even posting about it. Our society today is far too celebrity oriented, to our detriment.

Tata!

 

[Betty P]

Betty P. Quoting from People magazine and USA Today is not quoting from MSM.

Its all gossip and written to sell magazines. Nothing more.

They make 'stuff' up and elaborate beyond belief.

I can assure you the RF don't read any of it and the 'sources' are rubbish.

Yellow journalism at its worst. Might as well be quoting the DM.

Yeah, sorry, those are legit news sources. I know it's tough, but it's the reality of the situation.

We'll agree to disagree. I don't feel any need to defend either Ms. Markle or any of her family, or the royal family for that matter. They're more a carnival sideshow these days and it would be a waste of my time. I just found it a temporarily interesting study of narcissistic personality dysfunction.

To put a positive spin on it, it's a soap opera disguised as object lesson on how to avoid those destructive traits in others and in ourselves.

 

[Betty P]

If TM was abusive towards MM, her avoiding him makes a lot of sense.

JMO, they've had a dysfunctional relationship for a long time, probably beginning when the parents divorced. It's just playing out in public now. The parents probably developed a toxic relationship that seems to be ongoing.

That said, MM has a history of short term friendships. Note she had very few friends who came to her wedding. Some people just don't have much use for friends. Narcissists tend to let those relationships lapse when those relationships are no longer useful.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Idk, for Meghan's friends from childhood, or college, with whom she may well be in touch, how through the roof expensive $$$ a trip and stay a royal wedding would be for those coming from the USA. Not everyone could afford it?

I've seen her teachers interviewed, and even her ex husband wished her well. She's got some Hollywood friends, it's her industry. She's got her charity work connections, too. Her work buddies at Suits obviously love her, and she fulfilled her contract obligation, while dating a really high profile guy, and found a home for her doggy she was advised not to move because of his age. And her closeness with her mom is visible. I think Meghan is a very accomplished woman in her thirties. And, she and Harry had a magical wedding. Prince Charles was so wonderful to step in, and make everything ok.

-IMO, Doria is her rock and Meghan knew she would keep quiet when she first started dating Harry. I tend to think her half sibs jealousy has been long standing, and perhaps she knows how Samantha plays their father.

She tried to honor her father, maybe tried to have Harry meet him. She has not spoken ill of her father. Mr Markle is the one who backed out of the wedding and went on to trash her and Harry, spouting off about politics, hanging up the phone, and guilt tripping about being better off dead. I mean who does that?

It's not her fault she's from a broken home. She was essentially an only child, much younger than her half sibs. I can't judge her for coping with this obviously bitter situation the way she is, I'd do the same thing.

 

[Morag]

Mr. Markle refused to allow H&M to come visit him. I think he was probably self conscious about his appearance and his lifestyle, perhaps his substance abuse, and he hoped to get himself squared away before he had to meet a Prince. But he couldn’t, and then he felt really unable to go and associate with the Royals. BTW, he wasn’t speaking to his other daughter, or his son, for years, nor his grandchildren. His other daughter’s children are estranged from her, and I believe Mr. M has no relationship with any of his six grandchildren.

So Meghan, who is worldly, successful, well -educated and popular, is not the problem in her family. Sad, but it happens.

He has been married three times, as has Samantha Markle, and his son has had several varieties of legal problems within the last year. Why would Meghan want to have anything to do with any of them?

 

[Kensie]

I wonder if Megs really thinks about this crazy family drama. I feel that she wants it to go away, who wouldn't. Is this crazy drama even on her mind? More than likely not except for her embarrassing drama seeking family members. I think Doria's move was planned probably last Fall. I don't think it was a spur of the moment decision.