Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #5

[Deleted member 172065]

Someone upthread said that this case is very much like a case in the 70s. Capt. Jeffrey MacDonald. I'm watching the movie about him called Fatal Vision, to get an idea of a possible motive.

 

[glassheater]

So I've been thinking about this crime all week. (Obviously-a look at my posting history shows I am a little obsessed.) At first I started familiarizing myself with it because it's the topic of our podcast episode tomorrow night and I was trying to make sure that I had all the facts and didn't screw anything up. But in the last 48 hours I've just obsessed.

I am having a hard time with this one. The fact that we are all speculating and coming up with all of these theories (some of them far-fetched, IMO) and speculations is a testament, I think, to our collective confusion. We've spent a ton of time talking about Thrive and possible cheating, and mental illness (on both of their parts) and financial trouble because, I think, we are ALL having trouble wrapping our heads around this crime and we're just trying to come up with something-ANYTHING-that might help us to understand it.

I'll admit it, I don't get it. I realize that SM doesn't portray life as it is, and I think the majority of her posts were marketing material taken straight out of MLM Social Media 101, but it still does a pretty darn good job of painting a picture-fake or not. Usually by this point people are coming out of the woodwork and talking about control issues, domestic violence instances that were kept hushed, "feelings" that people had, etc. The most we're getting is that he was quiet, kind of shy, and didn't show many emotions-none of which would throw up any red flags. The kids appear close to him in the videos and pictures; it's difficult for kids to fake that (I know because I WAS a child in a bad situation). His eyes looked a little "off", but my husband's do as well. I've actually had people write me and ask if my husband is depressed because he never smiles in pictures. Nope, that's just him. He has the male equivalency of resting ***** face.

So what the heck happened here? A sudden fit of rage could, I think, account for one of the murders but three? Man, that's one psychotic break.

And what WAS his endgame anyway? Was he trying to pull a Scott Peterson? Off his family so that he could start anew as the grieving widower? If that was his plan then he was really, REALLY bad at it because most people online had him pegged as the culprit from the moment he gave that interview. He didn't do any job of setting up the house to make it look like a desertion or a kidnapping. Didn't plant any seeds to friends or on social media, didn't get rid of things that might prove that she just took off, didn't mess the house up to look like an intruder-he literally just took the bodies away and then carried on about his merry way. That is not the work of a smooth criminal. In fact, that goes up there with some of the worst planning, or lack of planning I've seen. Is there a Darwin Awards for crime?

What gets me, too, is that the crime was so utterly useless and pointless. Aside from the fact that ALL murders (especially those of children) are always pointless, he caved within a day or two and admitted to killing them. Now he will be in prison for the rest of his life.

I only knew Shanann through my support groups but I feel so sorry for her and the girls. Not only was she murdered but now her personal life will be picked to shreds on social media and in court. Even if I don't "get" the whole Le-vel thing, she WAS trying to live a good life. Doing things with her kids, traveling, working, etc. Many in my support groups just give up on life and resign themselves to a life of pain and suffering.(Sometimes I throw myself a pity party and do the same.) I have a soft spot for those who attempt to keep chugging along and even thriving (no pun intended) despite their health.

I'm angry on her behalf. No matter what led him to do what he did, it was completely senseless. If there was some kind of outside influence, though, (like a chemical reaction to a supplement or something) then I just hope that it will serve as a warning for people in the future. I don't think it will be anything like that, however I think that probably like many criminals before him, he was a boiling pot and his family was just right there when he finally spilled over. It really makes me sad.

Thank you for your perspective. And I agree, I think she was trying to support her family and make lemons out of lemonade. As much as I detest MLMs, I often feel for the women behind them because most of them that I have known that join are good people with tough financial circumstances and find the potential to make money while still having the flexibility to be with young kids appealing.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

M
My guess is she has a friend at the clinic and direct lined her.

Maybe her friend or her mom were on the approved contact list. I imagine CW would likely be on her contact list as well. It's easy for me to see how someone legally obtained the information about her missing the appointment.

 

[Herat]

I think with the article / video newsreport being early on when she was missing, those details that some are asking on this page are answered in a more thorough article here (FYI, same one friend, we’ve seen two different last names used).

Atkinson said she became immediately concerned about Watts when she didn't hear from her on the day she went missing. She said Watts had plans to see her doctor that day and missed the appointment.

She said she drove to the Watts' family home that day. But she got no answer when she rang the bell and noticed that Shanann's car was in the garage.

She told ABC News on Sunday that she called Chris Watts to express her concern. Then she called the Frederick Police Department and asked for a welfare check on Shanann.

She said Chris later showed up and they went into the house with a police officer.

When they found Watts' purse and cell phone inside the house and her keys inside her car in the garage, Atkinson became even more alarmed.
'I hope it's a boy for him': Pregnant wife, weeks before husband allegedly killed her

Why would Shannann's keys be in her car in the garage?

She used her keys to get in the house that night. Most people would put them immediately into their purse or on a regular place near the entry. I would never put my keys in the car in the garage because I'd never remember they were there and I'd be searching all over the house for an hour before I remembered them

Nicole drove her home from the airport. Was she trying to get in the car to get away from him that night? Was he thinking about driving the bodies out in her car?

Hmmmm

 

[KathrynL]

Someone upthread said that this case is very much like a case in the 70s. Capt. Jeffrey MacDonald. I'm watching the movie about him called Fatal Vision, to get an idea of a possible motive.

I've thought a lot about that case and what may have happened in this one. IIRC, JM fought with Colette, and hit her in the head with a 2x4. Then he went on to kill his girls. The same kind of thing possibly happened in the Watts house, but without any known facts about it I'm not sure if it's accurate in this case.

 

[mickey2942]

HOA's are the worst. That being said, it is a fairly nominal amount each month, usually to keep up common areas. If you can't pay this fee, what else is being skimped on? On Pink Truth, the MLM Mom's hated August, because they had to face the truth, that they had no money for basic school supplies, and it went on the ever increasing credit card.

As for working MLM to be home with her children...? What was she doing in Arizona? That is the disconnect.

Sad.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

My theory is he killed the kids before she got home to punish her for some perceived offense...
Seems like there's lot of that type thing in the news lately

 

[pocketaccent]

So far I've found two user names for CW. chrisleewatts and chris_thrives (from his now deleted Instagram). Still digging. He definitely tried to wipe himself off the internet before committing these crimes. Something truly sinister and premeditated happened here.

When he didn't stop squeezing (ugh, sorry guys) as his victims struggle to breathe, he premeditated. IMO premeditation takes only a second or two, not hours, or days or weeks. It only requires thinking that he was going to kill. Plus he did this to 3 people in a row.

 

[Crystal Regan]

That is considered a breach. I work in healthcare - they can’t give that information out without a court order.

She could have filled out release of information forms and had them on file at the doctor’s office.

 

[PeekingDuck]

So I've been thinking about this crime all week. (Obviously-a look at my posting history shows I am a little obsessed.) At first I started familiarizing myself with it because it's the topic of our podcast episode tomorrow night and I was trying to make sure that I had all the facts and didn't screw anything up. But in the last 48 hours I've just obsessed.

I am having a hard time with this one. The fact that we are all speculating and coming up with all of these theories (some of them far-fetched, IMO) and speculations is a testament, I think, to our collective confusion. We've spent a ton of time talking about Thrive and possible cheating, and mental illness (on both of their parts) and financial trouble because, I think, we are ALL having trouble wrapping our heads around this crime and we're just trying to come up with something-ANYTHING-that might help us to understand it.

I'll admit it, I don't get it. I realize that SM doesn't portray life as it is, and I think the majority of her posts were marketing material taken straight out of MLM Social Media 101, but it still does a pretty darn good job of painting a picture-fake or not. Usually by this point people are coming out of the woodwork and talking about control issues, domestic violence instances that were kept hushed, "feelings" that people had, etc. The most we're getting is that he was quiet, kind of shy, and didn't show many emotions-none of which would throw up any red flags. The kids appear close to him in the videos and pictures; it's difficult for kids to fake that (I know because I WAS a child in a bad situation). His eyes looked a little "off", but my husband's do as well. I've actually had people write me and ask if my husband is depressed because he never smiles in pictures. Nope, that's just him. He has the male equivalency of resting ***** face.

So what the heck happened here? A sudden fit of rage could, I think, account for one of the murders but three? Man, that's one psychotic break.

And what WAS his endgame anyway? Was he trying to pull a Scott Peterson? Off his family so that he could start anew as the grieving widower? If that was his plan then he was really, REALLY bad at it because most people online had him pegged as the culprit from the moment he gave that interview. He didn't do any job of setting up the house to make it look like a desertion or a kidnapping. Didn't plant any seeds to friends or on social media, didn't get rid of things that might prove that she just took off, didn't mess the house up to look like an intruder-he literally just took the bodies away and then carried on about his merry way. That is not the work of a smooth criminal. In fact, that goes up there with some of the worst planning, or lack of planning I've seen. Is there a Darwin Awards for crime?

What gets me, too, is that the crime was so utterly useless and pointless. Aside from the fact that ALL murders (especially those of children) are always pointless, he caved within a day or two and admitted to killing them. Now he will be in prison for the rest of his life.

I only knew Shanann through my support groups but I feel so sorry for her and the girls. Not only was she murdered but now her personal life will be picked to shreds on social media and in court. Even if I don't "get" the whole Le-vel thing, she WAS trying to live a good life. Doing things with her kids, traveling, working, etc. Many in my support groups just give up on life and resign themselves to a life of pain and suffering.(Sometimes I throw myself a pity party and do the same.) I have a soft spot for those who attempt to keep chugging along and even thriving (no pun intended) despite their health.

I'm angry on her behalf. No matter what led him to do what he did, it was completely senseless. If there was some kind of outside influence, though, (like a chemical reaction to a supplement or something) then I just hope that it will serve as a warning for people in the future. I don't think it will be anything like that, however I think that probably like many criminals before him, he was a boiling pot and his family was just right there when he finally spilled over. It really makes me sad.

Wow! Very well said.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Maybe her friend or her mom were on the approved contact list. I imagine CW would likely be on her contact list as well. It's easy for me to see how someone legally obtained the information about her missing the appointment.

A contact list is to be used if the medical facility needs to contact a person in a medical emergency. It’s not used to give out information on the patient.

 

[CFlo]

Why would Shannann's keys be in her car in the garage?

She used her keys to get in the house that night. Most people would put them immediately into their purse or on a regular place near the entry. I would never put my keys in the car in the garage because I'd never remember they were there and I'd be searching all over the house for an hour before I remembered them

Nicole drove her home from the airport. Was she trying to get in the car to get away from him that night? Was he thinking about driving the bodies out in her car?

Hmmmm

I noticed about their doorknob, there seems to be a keypad. Maybe that’s a keyless entry? Not sure.

I admit I do keep my keys in my car right on the dashboard, because I always pull right into the garage, set them up there so I know where to find them next, then go into the house through the interior garage/house door. I’ve always done that though, is that uncommon?
- It is the only door I ever use to enter the house.

 

[ccd1127]

I’m assuming that Shanann was supposed to get in touch with her friend that morning/day. They probably texted all the time and when Shanann didn’t get back to her, she got worried.

 

[no one]

Even when lying, there are elements of truth.

What was the emotional convo about?

My hunch is her suspicions of him cheating were not farfetched, I think he wanted out. He may have wanted another baby with her at one point, but his reaction in the pregnancy reveal didn't strike me as enthused.
He waited up for her, we know that. My theory:
He told her he wanted out, asked her to cancel gender reveal and abort baby. She flips out, they fight, he chokes her-- kids come down with all the ruckus. He can't leave them as witnesses, and reluctantly kills them too.

I don't even understand why he told the reporters there was an "emotional discussion" considering he would be the only one to know that. When they asked if they had argued why didn't he just say "no, we were happy to see each other. She woke me up to let me know she was home safely and then went and checked on the girls and came to bed and the last time I saw her was when I got up and left for work. I didn't want to disturb her because I knew she was tired, so I just kissed her cheek and left for work". Why in the world even mention an emotional discussion....unless that discussion actually started on the phone in the car with Nichole and he figured Nichole might mention it, so he was being proactive by bringing it up.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

She could have filled out release of information forms and had them on file at the doctor’s office.

Take it for what it’s worth, but I’ve worked in healthcare for over 20 years and that’s not how it works.

 

[NCTeacher]

A contact list is to be used if the medical facility needs to contact a person in a medical emergency. It’s not used to give out information on the patient.

Maybe, because she has lupus and her pregnancy is riskier, the doctor's office called her home and left a message about rescheduling. I know I have it checked off that my doctor's office can leave detailed, medical messages.

 

[CFlo]

Nicole drove her home from the airport. Was she trying to get in the car to get away from him that night? Was he thinking about driving the bodies out in her car?

These are definitely good questions though! Good catch!

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

A contact list is to be used if the medical facility needs to contact a person in a medical emergency. It’s not used to give out information on the patient.

Approved contacts are people that you give permission to have access to and discuss your protected health information. Surely that person would be able to find out about a missed appointment.

 

[PommyMommy]

Why would Shannann's keys be in her car in the garage?

She used her keys to get in the house that night. Most people would put them immediately into their purse or on a regular place near the entry. I would never put my keys in the car in the garage because I'd never remember they were there and I'd be searching all over the house for an hour before I remembered them

Nicole drove her home from the airport. Was she trying to get in the car to get away from him that night? Was he thinking about driving the bodies out in her car?

Hmmmm

It is interesting about the keys in the car and I wonder if that has any connection to him saying the garage was unlocked? He is asked about the house being locked and really over-explains the garage being unlocked and says that is normal. Very odd. Listen at about the 4:53 mark.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Maybe, because she has lupus and her pregnancy is riskier, the doctor's office called her home and left a message about rescheduling. I know I have it checked off that my doctor's office can leave detailed, medical messages.

Yes, they could have left her a message, but how would her friend have known that? Her friend was alarmed because she texted/called with no response and bevause she missed her appointment, but her friend had no way to know if a message was left to reschedule.