Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #5

[PommyMommy]

the keys in the car make me wonder how come there are no marks on him

altho that may be just movie stuff

or maybe she went to get something out of her car? was tired

long day forgot

If it is true (don't know which reporting to believe at this point), my gut tells me that she was trying to leave. It makes sense with what he said her last words to him were, which was that she was going to a friend's house.

 

[gregjrichards]

Guess at charges?

1. Felony murder x 3,
2. Abuse of corpse x 3
3. Child endangerment x 2
4. Trepass on property
5. Obstruction of justice, lying to LEO

Not really sure, they can probably add more. Can they do an enhancement because of the pregnancy?

I agree I think these will be the charges. Do you think prosecutors will seek the death penalty or LWP?

 

[lynxofsd]

Even when lying, there are elements of truth.

What was the emotional convo about?

My hunch is her suspicions of him cheating were not farfetched, I think he wanted out. He may have wanted another baby with her at one point, but his reaction in the pregnancy reveal didn't strike me as enthused.
He waited up for her, we know that. My theory:
He told her he wanted out, asked her to cancel gender reveal and abort baby. She flips out, they fight, he chokes her-- kids come down with all the ruckus. He can't leave them as witnesses, and reluctantly kills them too.

It's hard to commit the perfect crime, but I think he tried. Let's simplify this massacre and disposal of the troublesome evidence. Anything more complicated just increases the risk of failure.

The children were murdered and probably in the truck before Shannan arrived. Chris has already planned not to have an "emotional conversation". Yelling and fighting just brings unwanted attention. Chris is motivated to keep the encounter with Shannan as quiet as possible. Shannan arrives, heads to the back bedrooms where the kids usually are. By the time she realizes they aren't there, he subdues her in a way that he intends to leave no evidence of. Guns, sledgehammers, any external object striking her with brute force risks blood or bodily splatter that is hard to eliminate. Chris is a first class psychopath anyway, so he prefers watching her die by strangling her with his own hands, maybe using a scarf or something similar for additional leverage. Shannan expires, but not before she fights for her life, leaving marks on Chris's neck and elsewhere. LE will, in due time, arrange for a forensic examination of Chris's body for scratches, bruises, and other injuries Shannan inflicted on Chris before she died. For now, though, he loads her into the truck to join her children that are already there. At 0515, he leaves home to dispose of them at some barren oil lease, stained with the same petroleum the children will be submerged in, and hopefully not long before the sun ascends too rapidly into the sky.

Unluckily for him, the comings and goings at their home are being monitored electronically, including the damning evidence of Shannan's arrival, Chris' departure, and a continuous stream of video that shows neither Shannan or the children departing before Nicole arrives, followed by the police investigating Nicole's concerns not too much longer after her arrival. By the time Chris arrives, three television stations tripod their best cameras to record his unrehearsed, ill-considered statements and affect for the entire world to judge and absorb. The judgment of the court of public opinion is swift, and likely accurate.

A rookie mistake does Chris in quickly, like most narcissists infected with a unstable combination of hubris and guilt. His confession, therefore, was swiftly obtained.

 

[MyBelle]

This whole swiping of the internet presence/SM a week before, thinking about this, could there be any other possible reason (other than premeditation)? Sure some people do it for ordinary reasons, but why specifically this at this time? Could he have been hiding someone? Idk just thinking out loud maybe he owed people money. A lot of crazy speculation here I know, just brainstorming. Was someone blackmailing him? I feel like I’m over thinking everything. Or maybe not...so why else might he scrub it? I’m really to trying to figure out this aspect of premeditation here. I suppose we will find out tomorrow or Tuesday. As I said I’m catching up in the media thread, going back to thread1 now, again thanks for your patience, I was super swamped in Mollie’s thread at the time that all this was unfolding. Then I got all distracted on “FAs”, reading backwards etc..

Does he have a LinkedIn? Why would this even matter now lol. I’m getting too carried away with this nutjob.

Heartbreaking case. What a waste and what a loss. (Trying to maintain an emotional disconnect here).

Perhaps he, too, used his social media accounts to promote Thrive and he decided to end his business relationship with them. I think there are valid reasons why people decide to cut back on social media.

 

[CARIIS]

I wonder how the friend and police got inside the house? Our daughter's ex phoned police for a well-check but police only came to the front door. When she didn't answer they left and came back later. Her neighbor told her about it.

It will be interesting to find out (now that we know where everyone is) if Nicole comes forward with info about the terrible marriage

Now i don't know it may be common for SM folks to freak out if someone does not respond to a text instantly.

But to getL LE involved in 90 minutes i would think indicates she was fully aware of the relationship . I would even think she might have had to say something when she called LE

One of the first questions le would ask is how long has she been gone

it was what noonish she would have responded she had a 10 appt

i don't think they would dispatch for a 90 minute gap in time unless the caller said something they have been having a rough time lately and her husband can be explosive or something like that

let me ask you this even with the instant response expectations that all that stuff creates would you all feel comfortable calling le in 90 min (assuming you knew nothing about the state of affairs between the two of them?

 

[CARIIS]

That is considered a breach. I work in healthcare - they can’t give that information out without a court order.

yeh the Hipaa stuff is strong. It was a lot more of a change for straight medical folks when they bought it online - confidentiality and privileged communication in our field is brainwashed and our holy grail -- but always has been.

In public , we can't acknowledge a pt unless the pt approaches and initiates contact - because the logical question of the person with the pt would be how do you know him?

Chatter was that SW's Mum had been calling/texting SW since early morning without response. She knew that SW and Nicole had been together in AZ and contacted Nicole who also hadn't been able to reach her - Hence Nicole went directly to the house. I'm sure Mum, Nicole, or LE called the Obgyn asking to talk with SW and told she was not there/missed her appt. (SW Medical info not released/breached in emergency situation). MOO

so we are back to (SW mom) another person being mortified that she gone for a bit of time. All this leads to me others knew how dangerous the situation had become no?

did her family generally disdain him from the beginning or something

It does sound all enmeshed -

Chris raced home when her friend showed up at the house so he let them in

how far is the work place and home

I sure wish we knew what he did for them -curious if it is a deskjob or a out in the field type of work

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it and I'll get to sleuthing.

you better look out the joint gets addictive quickly!! Welcome

do you guys realize this thread is 20000 away from Brian Schaffer tradegy

So I've been thinking about this crime all week. (Obviously-a look at my posting history shows I am a little obsessed.) At first I started familiarizing myself with it because it's the topic of our podcast episode tomorrow night and I was trying to make sure that I had all the facts and didn't screw anything up. But in the last 48 hours I've just obsessed.

I am having a hard time with this one. The fact that we are all speculating and coming up with all of these theories (some of them far-fetched, IMO) and speculations is a testament, I think, to our collective confusion. We've spent a ton of time talking about Thrive and possible cheating, and mental illness (on both of their parts) and financial trouble because, I think, we are ALL having trouble wrapping our heads around this crime and we're just trying to come up with something-ANYTHING-that might help us to understand it.

I'll admit it, I don't get it. I realize that SM doesn't portray life as it is, and I think the majority of her posts were marketing material taken straight out of MLM Social Media 101, but it still does a pretty darn good job of painting a picture-fake or not. Usually by this point people are coming out of the woodwork and talking about control issues, domestic violence instances that were kept hushed, "feelings" that people had, etc. The most we're getting is that he was quiet, kind of shy, and didn't show many emotions-none of which would throw up any red flags. The kids appear close to him in the videos and pictures; it's difficult for kids to fake that (I know because I WAS a child in a bad situation). His eyes looked a little "off", but my husband's do as well. I've actually had people write me and ask if my husband is depressed because he never smiles in pictures. Nope, that's just him. He has the male equivalency of resting ***** face.

So what the heck happened here? A sudden fit of rage could, I think, account for one of the murders but three? Man, that's one psychotic break.

And what WAS his endgame anyway? Was he trying to pull a Scott Peterson? Off his family so that he could start anew as the grieving widower? If that was his plan then he was really, REALLY bad at it because most people online had him pegged as the culprit from the moment he gave that interview. He didn't do any job of setting up the house to make it look like a desertion or a kidnapping. Didn't plant any seeds to friends or on social media, didn't get rid of things that might prove that she just took off, didn't mess the house up to look like an intruder-he literally just took the bodies away and then carried on about his merry way. That is not the work of a smooth criminal. In fact, that goes up there with some of the worst planning, or lack of planning I've seen. Is there a Darwin Awards for crime?

What gets me, too, is that the crime was so utterly useless and pointless. Aside from the fact that ALL murders (especially those of children) are always pointless, he caved within a day or two and admitted to killing them. Now he will be in prison for the rest of his life.

I only knew Shanann through my support groups but I feel so sorry for her and the girls. Not only was she murdered but now her personal life will be picked to shreds on social media and in court. Even if I don't "get" the whole Le-vel thing, she WAS trying to live a good life. Doing things with her kids, traveling, working, etc. Many in my support groups just give up on life and resign themselves to a life of pain and suffering.(Sometimes I throw myself a pity party and do the same.) I have a soft spot for those who attempt to keep chugging along and even thriving (no pun intended) despite their health.

I'm angry on her behalf. No matter what led him to do what he did, it was completely senseless. If there was some kind of outside influence, though, (like a chemical reaction to a supplement or something) then I just hope that it will serve as a warning for people in the future. I don't think it will be anything like that, however I think that probably like many criminals before him, he was a boiling pot and his family was just right there when he finally spilled over. It really makes me sad.

Incredible post ty!

ugh now i am back to steroids. If the Thrive stuff was not in this story i think we would be talking about them a lot more

the thrive stuff seemed to be some coffee and some bark! The lawnmower pic looks like steroids no? Someone said there was a video and then blue said that the pic looked manipulated

in the video is he that big? I would think it would take some time to go down from the lawnmower size to present size

anyone know the timelines of the lawnmower to present day

can steroids also make one get narrower?

 

[wistful]

It's really important to find all these indications of premeditation....

Or, if he had some indication a week ago that she planned to leave him, he might have scrubbed his SM to avoid humiliation.

 

[gitana1]

So I've been thinking about this crime all week. (Obviously-a look at my posting history shows I am a little obsessed.) At first I started familiarizing myself with it because it's the topic of our podcast episode tomorrow night and I was trying to make sure that I had all the facts and didn't screw anything up. But in the last 48 hours I've just obsessed.

I am having a hard time with this one. The fact that we are all speculating and coming up with all of these theories (some of them far-fetched, IMO) and speculations is a testament, I think, to our collective confusion. We've spent a ton of time talking about Thrive and possible cheating, and mental illness (on both of their parts) and financial trouble because, I think, we are ALL having trouble wrapping our heads around this crime and we're just trying to come up with something-ANYTHING-that might help us to understand it.

I'll admit it, I don't get it. I realize that SM doesn't portray life as it is, and I think the majority of her posts were marketing material taken straight out of MLM Social Media 101, but it still does a pretty darn good job of painting a picture-fake or not. Usually by this point people are coming out of the woodwork and talking about control issues, domestic violence instances that were kept hushed, "feelings" that people had, etc. The most we're getting is that he was quiet, kind of shy, and didn't show many emotions-none of which would throw up any red flags. The kids appear close to him in the videos and pictures; it's difficult for kids to fake that (I know because I WAS a child in a bad situation). His eyes looked a little "off", but my husband's do as well. I've actually had people write me and ask if my husband is depressed because he never smiles in pictures. Nope, that's just him. He has the male equivalency of resting ***** face.

So what the heck happened here? A sudden fit of rage could, I think, account for one of the murders but three? Man, that's one psychotic break.

And what WAS his endgame anyway? Was he trying to pull a Scott Peterson? Off his family so that he could start anew as the grieving widower? If that was his plan then he was really, REALLY bad at it because most people online had him pegged as the culprit from the moment he gave that interview. He didn't do any job of setting up the house to make it look like a desertion or a kidnapping. Didn't plant any seeds to friends or on social media, didn't get rid of things that might prove that she just took off, didn't mess the house up to look like an intruder-he literally just took the bodies away and then carried on about his merry way. That is not the work of a smooth criminal. In fact, that goes up there with some of the worst planning, or lack of planning I've seen. Is there a Darwin Awards for crime?

What gets me, too, is that the crime was so utterly useless and pointless. Aside from the fact that ALL murders (especially those of children) are always pointless, he caved within a day or two and admitted to killing them. Now he will be in prison for the rest of his life.

I only knew Shanann through my support groups but I feel so sorry for her and the girls. Not only was she murdered but now her personal life will be picked to shreds on social media and in court. Even if I don't "get" the whole Le-vel thing, she WAS trying to live a good life. Doing things with her kids, traveling, working, etc. Many in my support groups just give up on life and resign themselves to a life of pain and suffering.(Sometimes I throw myself a pity party and do the same.) I have a soft spot for those who attempt to keep chugging along and even thriving (no pun intended) despite their health.

I'm angry on her behalf. No matter what led him to do what he did, it was completely senseless. If there was some kind of outside influence, though, (like a chemical reaction to a supplement or something) then I just hope that it will serve as a warning for people in the future. I don't think it will be anything like that, however I think that probably like many criminals before him, he was a boiling pot and his family was just right there when he finally spilled over. It really makes me sad.

Great post. I think we will get more answers (hopefully) this week. Or whenever the charging document are released.

 

[margarita25]

I’m imagining different scenarios in my head (all terrible) but one I just had is she gets home, they start arguing loudly, maybe physically fighting, she says this is it I’m taking the kids and leaving you, the kids wake up and come out, and he kills them in front of her to hurt her and spite her (would he have had to restrain her to make her watch? Or was she perhaps injured or incapacitated IF there is any plausibility to this scenario (one of many)? I know some here mentioned they think he killed the children earlier...

Do you guys think he killed CeCe and Bella while they were sleeping? Its all going to come out soon I think. Sounds like LE is not planning on holding much back. They seem to have accepted the fact imo that the media and SM is all over this so they might as well keep things straight since there is no need to keep things close to the vest in order to trap a suspect, find victims, etc. One reason for things held back could be of course preserving the integrity of the trial.

 

[molly1255]

Guess at charges?

1. Felony murder x 3,
2. Abuse of corpse x 3
3. Child endangerment x 2
4. Trepass on property
5. Obstruction of justice, lying to LEO

Not really sure, they can probably add more. Can they do an enhancement because of the pregnancy?

Is a charge of tampering with a deceased human body the same as abuse of corpse? And what exactly are they referring to in terms of that?

 

[margarita25]

Jeffrey McDonald was raging on drugs and stress when he killed his wife and kids, I don't believe he planned that one either, just lost his shiz.

Like @mtnlites said, that’s one heck of a psychotic break. What if he wasn’t doing drugs I wonder? Can someone reaaaallllly just snap like that? Without NO prior signs? There must have been signs...??? This is driving me crazy trying to understand premeditation vs snapping here. We see premeditation all the time in spousal murders (insurance policy, infidelity, etc) and familial homicides (moms/dads/caregivers killing their children), but these 2 together (wife AND kids) are just really, weird to me (for lack of a better term. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. The similar cases I do remember on WS where a father abducted and kills the kids was usually been motivated by revenge and spite that I recall, to hurt the mother. Of course there must be other contributing factors in these cases too. Another note is often in cases of where the mom, parent or caregiver kills the child, there is a often history of abuse. (Malik, Sharon, Lucas, Little Jacob/Jayden...)

 

[CARIIS]

Is a charge of tampering with a deceased human body the same as abuse of corpse? And what exactly are they referring to in terms of that?

I took that to mean moving bodies.

Understandably LE would want as many as charges as possible

whoever had to get the kids out is messed up for life

do they drain the tanks or what

its hard to think about this part of the tragedy

 

[margarita25]

I'm not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think there are very likely to be real indications of premeditation on his computer..

But In this day and age people know that IF they’re going to plan something like this one’s electronic footprint can be revealing and incriminating...I’m wondering if he had a totally different anonymous computer / internet / phone account IF he planned this. But like @mtnlites said, I’m not so sure he’s this master planner (paraphrasing). Did he go to the library or Starbucks for example IF he was planning this? Actually he wouldn’t need the internet to know about the tanks, etc. If anything, maybe he researched crude oil and DNA, decomp, etc. I doubt it though. Who knows...maybe other accounts for *advertiser censored*, mistress(es), etc.

 

[CARIIS]

Like @mtnlites said, that’s one heck of a psychotic break. What if he wasn’t doing drugs I wonder? Can someone reaaaallllly just snap like that? Without NO prior signs? There must have been signs...??? This is driving me crazy trying to understand premeditation vs snapping here. We see premeditation all the time in spousal murders (insurance policy, infidelity, etc) and familial homicides (moms/dads/caregivers killing their children), but these 2 together (wife AND kids) are just really, weird to me (for lack of a better term. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. The similar cases I do remember on WS where a father abducted and kills the kids was usually been motivated by revenge and spite that I recall, to hurt the mother. Of course there must be other contributing factors in these cases too. Another note is often in cases of where the mom, parent or caregiver kills the child, there is a often history of abuse. (Malik, Sharon, Lucas, Little Jacob/Jayden...)

jmo

but i think the notion of snapping is more tv related.

Unless someone is psychotic or delusional , for the most part I think it is more like simmering or an inability to manage self if that makes sense

snapped kinda gives the notion of instant insanity

moo

I dont think planned either - I would think if one is ruminating over this over and over they would not slip up or confess about it so quick

Unless they found something in the house that was incriminating maybe

I remain hung up on the neighbors calling the cops and fbi -- just the way they expressed and their eyes and stuff it was like they both knew instantly that when asked why or what they noticed that made them call they were not going to answer that - period

(throughout the interview the male could only "that he did something like that" it was like he could not even utter the statement that he killed the children "like that"....

to double afterwards and also call the FBI (their words something akin to make sure ) makes me thing they KNEW he did it by something he did or say or he broke down over the kids

I think the kids are haunting him not her

 

[margarita25]

jmo

but i think the notion of snapping is more tv related.

Unless someone is psychotic or delusional , for the most part I think it is more like simmering or an inability to manage self if that makes sense

snapped kinda gives the notion of instant insanity

moo

well

This is actually what I’m wondering about CAR, and actually asked @gitana1 if this type of defense might be used (temporary insanity, crime of passion)..like I said I’m all confused about this “snapping” business..were there signs? There must have been...hard to fathom snapping at this magnitude...

 

[lawma]

I'm new (first post!) and I've tried to read everything but I don't think I'm ever going to catch all the way up!

For what it's worth, I found both SW and CW Pinterest accounts. CW doesn't have anything on his. SW has a lot of food stuff and kid stuff, and she also has a board for Origami Owl and one for Thirty One, both of which I think are MLMs.

https://www.pinterest.com/shanannwatts/

https://www.pinterest.com/chrisleewatts/

 

[margarita25]

I'm new (first post!) and I've tried to read everything but I don't think I'm ever going to catch all the way up!

For what it's worth, I found both SW and CW Pinterest accounts. CW doesn't have anything on his. SW has a lot of food stuff and kid stuff, and she also has a board for Origami Owl and one for Thirty One, both of which I think are MLMs.

https://www.pinterest.com/shanannwatts/

https://www.pinterest.com/chrisleewatts/

Welcome lawma! Thanks for the links!

(Omg his profile pic, him holding the girls when they were little... )

 

[margarita25]

I am getting close to my Lunesta time too!! Life saver!

11:59. Goodnight all. So sad. Her Pinterest link just posted.... Looks like she was quite the cook. Or interested in preparing good food at least.

(Ungrateful ....)

 

[Hazelnutty]

Would CW be tested for drugs as part of arrest procedure? Curious if he has a history of drug abuse.

The gas can. Was he going to burn the well / tank that contained the children's bodies? I suppose throwing gas in / on that tank would have created a huge fire and explosion? Leading to other explosions. I believe he intended to put ShaNnans body in the tank with the girls, but a dead wife is harder to hoist than a living one.

He seems furious. Hell-fire, scorched-earth furious. Something that he's blaming Shannan for. Was he also angry with his employer? What could have happened there? He had lots of places to put the bodies. Why work?

Something happened during those 5 weeks he was not with Shannan & children.

I think he's always had this anger and hate inside, but something(s) recent set it off. What in this world could cause someone to kill a child, much less your own children. Killing the girls would definitely hurt Shannan more than anything else could. Is that why he killed them? To hurt her?

I don't think he's stupid. I don't think he's lazy or slow. I think he simply ran out of time. Thank God for Shannan 's friends.

I'm simply speculating. Moo

 

[margarita25]

Would CW be tested for drugs as part of arrest procedure? Curious if he has a history of drug abuse.

The gas can. Was he going to burn the well / tank that contained the children's bodies? I suppose throwing gas in / on that tank would have created a huge fire and explosion? Leading to other explosions. I believe he intended to put ShaNnans body in the tank with the girls, but a dead wife is harder to hoist than a living one.

He seems furious. Hell-fire, scorched-earth furious. Something that he's blaming Shannan for. Was he also angry with his employer? What could have happened there? He had lots of places to put the bodies. Why work?

Something happened during those 5 weeks he was not with Shannan & children.

I think he's always had this anger and hate inside, but something(s) recent set it off. What in this world could cause someone to kill a child, much less your own children. Killing the girls would definitely hurt Shannan more than anything else could. Is that why he killed them? To hurt her?

I don't think he's stupid. I think he simply ran out of time. Thank God for Shannan 's friends.

I'm simply speculating. Moo

Good question about the drug testing...
Idk...
Could he have burned Shanann to hide COD, evidence etc? I know it was said “shallow grave”...a fire would have attracted attention...indeed..why the gas can?

Horrific thought, hazelnutty, if he had created an explosion...they just had that huge fatal home explosion there and it devastated the community...had many residual effects...that’s a whole nother can of worms...