CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[SuperTmo]

It makes so much sense. Otherwise, he would have waited. imho

Yep. He had this all worked out in his mind and then the plane delay. I’d imagine the girls were deceased a few hours either in the home or the truck. IMO they were in the home and he made sure she saw them before he attacked her.

If the girls’ bodies were in bags from the time they died until they left the house, would cadaver dogs still alert?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I still think he killed her first and then the babies. I know this is unpopular and likely wrong but my mind won't let me go to him killing those babies first. It's easier to believe he snapped and killed them at the same time rather than hours apart.

 

[SuperTmo]

This is my first post on here, so I hope I don't mess anything up!

From what I understand, as covered in this article and other studies https://phys.org/news/2013-08-characteristics-family-killers-revealed-taxonomy.html, the timing of him killing the family on an August weekend is almost textbook family annihilator behavior. 1 in 5 of these cases happen in August and nearly half happen on a weekend. I imagine some of it is connected with school routines not being in session.

That timing is crazy. I wonder why that is. I always assumed more people lost their minds and killed their families around the holidays, or just after. Not sure why I thought that though.

 

[Boodles]

Likely his confession is a lie too. I don't believe a word of it.

Moo

When LE officials would not confirm what the reporter (Jace Larson) published about CW having confessed to the murders, I knew something was hinky.

It was all a crock. So much for unnamed sources.

 

[katydid23]

As soon as a person is deceased specific minute chemicals are released in the air that is what the dogs are trained to smell, smells that are undetectable by us.

Yes, This^^^^^

 

[cottonweaver]

Chris Watts Seemed Like a Warm Family Man, Friend Says: 'His Entire Life Was Those Girls'

"I believed until the other day that his entire life was those girls, and that he would die for them," Kris Landon told People magazine.

But others have said Watts seemed distant. Michele Greer met the family while they were on vacation in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, earlier this month. "He was just standing there," Greer told Inside Edition of Watts, adding that he appeared indifferent as his daughters happily bounced on a trampoline.

Thanks for re-posting that link. ( I couldn't remember Kris's full name)
Kris seems to be reflecting on his past family friendship & how he perceived CW ( in bold). ( Just as the Thayer couple seemed to do.)

“He’s just a very warm, personable person. He never seemed like someone with anything to hide, because he is so good at looking you in the eye and talking to you," Landon said. "He’s very gifted with words, like he knew what to say to make you like him and warm up to him.”

Find it fascinating that who CW is, is maybe in the eye of the beholder. How close are they & how perceptive.

NUA, ( either because she has great intuition or because she knows more about the SW CW relationship) was on to the darker outcomes very quickly .
I re-watched the NUA GMAmerica interview on this thread and she says that she sat on SW's bed and cried as she had the feeling that she might never see them ever again. She also says that she had never previously seen a sign and had with hindsight racked her brain about every shared friends event with CW present.
So from no sign to actually suspecting CW had done something to this family.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

YES, YES, YES

His story was that she told him she was going out for a play date....

But the house is TRAUMATIC for him... Because he knows exactly what the trauma is.

He knows she didnt walk off and leave him.

He contradicts himself about wanting those kids to return, yet he can't stand being in that house. Such a Tell

Seriously.

If he thought they were abducted or in a car accident or something the house should have been comforting, not traumatizing.

But I don't believe he was feeling traumatized, I think it's just what he thought he should say as he tried (poorly) to mimic real human emotions. Really he was feeling proud of himself for fooling us all.

Moo

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

When LE officials would not confirm what the reporter (Jace Larson) published about CW having confessed to the murders, I knew something was hinky.

It was all a crock. So much for unnamed sources.

Me too. I noticed right away LE never said he confessed. They said something like "we believe we know where the bodies are".

 

[Zella]

CW lied and obstructed from the moment NU called CW. He lied to LE, family, friends, and the public. He lied until he confessed. And we are supposed to believe he is suddenly telling the truth? SMH.

That's something that has really stood out to me. When he was talking in his interview, he indicated no sense of urgency about the lack of communication from her. I had assumed the friend who called police knew something fishy, but when I read the official paperwork that said she called because she was worried about the medical issues SW had and feared a medical emergency, it made her husband's lack of concern seem even more troubling. I may be wrong, but I don't remember him saying anything about being concerned about a medical emergency when he was first summoned. Same for the girls with their asthma and allergies.

That timing is crazy. I wonder why that is. I always assumed more people lost their minds and killed their families around the holidays, or just after. Not sure why I thought that though.

I had never thought much about it myself until I saw those stats either! I would have guessed holidays too, to be honest.

 

[The Saint]

Isalybra,

Thank you for joining us. I know that it is a painful time for you and other friends of Shanann. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I don't mean to overload you, but these are things I'd like to know if you are to able to give us information:

1. Do you know where we could find a floorplan of the Watts home? Does the housing development have a name, so we can look for their floorplan online?

2. Are there low windows on the side of the garage that Nikole's son would be able to see Shahnann's car inside the garage? Or could it be that the garage's front roll-up door
wasn't locked? Is there an outside side door to the garage that could have been unlocked?

3. Do you know where the Amazon Echo was located in the Watts home? Was there more than one Echo? If so, where were they located? Alexa could have recorded the murders.

4. How many flat screen TVs did the Watts have and where were they located?
I ask because smart TVs, especially Samsungs, can eavesdrop and record the audio inside your house. The TV(s) and Google Voice on Shanann's cellphone could have recorded the murders.

5. Is Shanann's mother now in Frederick? We've seen Shanann's dad and brother in the courtroom, but I don't think her mom has been there. Is Dieter now with Shanann's mom and not the Thayers?

6. I'm confused about the day and time at whch the neighbors 2 doors down heard Dieter barking in a terrible way as if he had been injured. They said they called the police for a wellness check and everything was ok. Do you know what day and time this happened? Was Dieter still in the Watts house when the cadaver dogs where searching the house?


7. RE: Financial stress. There has been a wide range of speculation about what kind of
salary Shanann was earning --- anywhere from less than $20,000 up to $80,000 and beyond. Can you give us an idea of what she actually was making (not including the
car allowance)?

8. Was there any indication that their home was in danger of foreclosure by the bank
(not HOA)?

9. The health of Bella and CeCe seemed very fragile, due to much more than just nut allergies. Shanann had a category on her Pinterest page titled FMF that included pins about Periodic Fever Syndrome that affects children. Did Bella & CeCe that's why they had surgery in March to remove their adenoids and insert ear tubes? Did the girls have frequent health crises?

10. How many baby monitor display screens did Shanann have and where were they located? Were they split screen so you could see Bella's room and CeCe's room
at the same time? Were they color or black-and-white? Did their baby monitors
record or upload via wifi to a Cloud? Do you know they brand name/model?

11. Do you know if their Ring doorbell would record the vistor on Shanann's cell phone or Cloud whether she answered the alert or not?

Thanks so much!

(Apologies to WS posters if these questions were discussed earlier. I've had trouble keeping up due to the time zone difference and thread lockdowns.)

 

[Zella]

Now that I think about it are people more likely to separate in the summer? My own parents separated in July, and a friend of mine who is going through a divorce also separated in the summer. Her relationship has been bad for a long time, but the impetus was she wanted to have her situation squared away before she returned to school. Perhaps that has some bearing on the stats too?

 

[ZsaZsa]

When LE officials would not confirm what the reporter (Jace Larson) published about CW having confessed to the murders, I knew something was hinky.

It was all a crock. So much for unnamed sources.

SW's brother posted on his FB page that " he has admitted to killing all my family". which obviously came direct from LE.

 

[SuziQ]

Yep. He had this all worked out in his mind and then the plane delay. I’d imagine the girls were deceased a few hours either in the home or the truck. IMO they were in the home and he made sure she saw them before he attacked her.

If the girls’ bodies were in bags from the time they died until they left the house, would cadaver dogs still alert?

IMO yes. Also, most people do not know how quick a death scent is left behind. He most likely took longer than ten minutes to do anything with the bodies.

 

[Amonet]

I don’t know exactly how the cadaver dogs work but what scent would they pick up on? If all 3 were strangled then there will be no blood, they were removed likely straight away so not decomposing smells, and they lived in the house so their scent would be expected. I don’t believe the dogs would have picked up on anything IMO

I'm sorry for saying this without links, there are definitely articles on the subject you can look up if you're interested, and if they don't back up what I'm saying then absolutely tell me I'm wrong.

Cadaver dogs are a particular specialty of scent dogs. There are a lot of things dogs can be trained to sniff out..drugs, blood, then scent of one particular human, or cadavers (maybe other things I can't think of?).

Each dog has to be trained in its specialty by a handler. So one dog won't usually be able to do *all* these things, it's usually a tight specialization. Though I will caveat that by saying I'm talking more about blood or cadaver dogs with that tight specialization, it's usually one dog for cadaver scent, another dog for blood scent, another dog for tracking a human across spaces. I don't know anything about the drug-sniffing type of specialties, so I am not commenting on them.

Cadaver dogs do not sniff blood. They have a way to tell the scent of 'death', and studies have shown that they can pick up this scent if a body has been in situ for as little as two minutes, but much higher success rate when it goes up to ten minutes.

The scent the cadaver dogs pick up on is known as "cadaverine", and again it has nothing to do with blood.

 

[NuttMegg]

I keep coming back to how the two girls were in seperate tanks. If we believe CW’s story, that Shanann killed the girls and he killed her out of rage, or trying to protect them, surely he would have put his two girls together? Ok, I could buy that his rage at Shanann made him bury her separately, even though that meant her innocent unborn child went with her, but surely if he loved those girls at all he would have put them together. Putting them in the oil is horrific enough, but putting them in separately proves he didn’t care about them, IMO.

From what another proposed in an earlier thread, maybe he spaced them out into 2 tanks because they would be less likely to stop up drains. Can't believe that was his decision, and I think it had to be researched beforehand. Does anyone know if they were in bags?

 

[cottonweaver]

Seriously.

If he thought they were abducted or in a car accident or something the house should have been comforting, not traumatizing.

But I don't believe he was feeling traumatized, I think it's just what he thought he should say as he tried (poorly) to mimic real human emotions. Really he was feeling proud of himself for fooling us all.

Moo

Did you notice on that Fox interview ( link at start of this thread, dog barking one) he makes a thing about leaving every, single light on in the house, on the one night he stays in the family home?

You can put a couple of interpretations onto that ....

PS Also I agree with you where you said in an earlier post upthread, he has some psychopathy going on.
He has to have due to the nature of the crime & how he handled the aftermath.
Prison's are full of sociopaths so he won't be lonely.

In DV/family killing cases it's too convenient to fall back on the "he snapped" provocation defence. (They overhauled that law in the UK a few years ago. IDK how its stands in the US but it doesn't seem to apply to his actions that we know to date, in any case.)

 

[NuttMegg]

I'm sorry for saying this without links, there are definitely articles on the subject you can look up if you're interested, and if they don't back up what I'm saying then absolutely tell me I'm wrong.

Cadaver dogs are a particular specialty of scent dogs. There are a lot of things dogs can be trained to sniff out..drugs, blood, then scent of one particular human, or cadavers (maybe other things I can't think of?).

Each dog has to be trained in its specialty by a handler. So one dog won't usually be able to do *all* these things, it's usually a tight specialization. Though I will caveat that by saying I'm talking more about blood or cadaver dogs with that tight specialization, it's usually one dog for cadaver scent, another dog for blood scent, another dog for tracking a human across spaces. I don't know anything about the drug-sniffing type of specialties, so I am not commenting on them.

Cadaver dogs do not sniff blood. They have a way to tell the scent of 'death', and studies have shown that they can pick up this scent if a body has been in situ for as little as two minutes, but much higher success rate when it goes up to ten minutes.

The scent the cadaver dogs pick up on is known as "cadaverine", and again it has nothing to do with blood.

Sorry to ask something that I might be able to research....but do the dogs indicate the strength of the death scent, or is it like a toggle....yes or no. Assuming as you referred to, that there is sufficient odor for them to reach the "yes" threshhold. Like is there a trained reaction.....YES and RECENT!!

 

[gregjrichards]

Did you notice on that Fox interview ( link at start of this thread, dog barking one) he makes a thing about leaving every, single light on in the house, on the one night he stays in the family home?

You can put a couple of interpretations onto that ....

PS Also I agree with you where you said in an earlier post upthread, he has some psychopathy going on.
He has to have due to the nature of the crime & how he handled the aftermath.
Prison's are full of sociopaths so he won't be lonely.

In DV/family killing cases it's too convenient to fall back on the "he snapped" provocation defence. (They overhauled that law in the UK a few years ago. IDK how its stands in the US but it doesn't seem to apply to his actions that we know to date, in any case.)

I think he will be kept on his own in prison for his safety so the jail doesn’t get sued. Prisoners don’t like child killers.

 

[Harriet Vane]

From what another proposed in an earlier thread, maybe he spaced them out into 2 tanks because they would be less likely to stop up drains. Can't believe that was his decision, and I think it had to be researched beforehand. Does anyone know if they were in bags?

Yes, it shows he thought more about trying to make sure they weren’t found. If he was really upset about their deaths, as he would have us believe, I think he would have wanted the two girls together.

 

[Sleutherfly]

Eh, I’d live there. I’m not really superstitious or anything so it wouldn’t bother me.

Shanann had dreams of that being family home full of happiness, where kids felt safe and knew they were loved and cared for. She wanted it to be a home filled with cheer at holidays and where the happiest memories were made.

If I lived there I’d just go about returning that house to it’s intended purpose because I think Shanann would like that.

I would live there too. I believe the victims are in heaven so it wouldn't bother me. If the murders were more violent (i.e. bloody) it would bother me more. I remember the people that lived in Travis Alexander's house and they didn't even know about the murder until the Arias trial. That one would bother me because the bathroom would just creep me out.