CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[bluesneakers]

Does anyone know if these trips were free?

Without credit card statements I don't think we'll ever know.

 

[NuttMegg]

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

It will take a lot to shake me from my belief that she already knew, and they were yelling at each other, he because she was late and he was tired of being the babysitter, and she yelling that she already knew of his girlfriend and to get out. He freaks out at the idea of leaving the house and kills her, then the kids who woke and saw. (IMO)

 

[SuperTmo]

I think CW knew they were going to get a divorce. He loved the girls, but in an unhealthy way. His whole identity was wrapped up in being a father. We don't yet know what caused his emotional separation from SW, or when it began, but there was evidence of it while SW was in NC. SW could see it coming.

I think CW knew that their world was about to come crashing down---they were going to lose the house (IMO). An ugly custody battle was about to commence that he probably knew he would lose, and he wanted to spare the girls all of that. Or he felt helpless because he didn't have the resources to fight it but she did.

So I think this is a case of "if I can't have them, then you can't have them, either." And "I love them so much that I can't bear to be separated from them." His attitude toward SW might have been the very same (even though he had been cheating)--I love SW so much that I can't bear the thought of losing her.

So he killed them. Grief and the prospect of permanent unbearable loss fuels rage sometimes.

I would be very interested to know if his parents were divorced when he was young, and whether there was a bitterly contested custody case where one parent did not let the other parent see the children.

ETA: I am surprised, if the above is correct, that he didn't kill himself, too.

Yes, could be. But I can’t imagine why he didn’t kill himself. He didn’t seem to have any intention of doing so, so I find it hard to reach that he did this for financial reasons, or because he wouldn’t be seeing his kids every day. This case is baffling to me.

 

[Sleutherfly]

So I believe. Do you still think he will get that option after conviction eg with LWOP?

I think he'll always be separated, unfortunately. I hope the prison doesn't allow "fan mail" so he has to truly be all alone to think of what a horrible person he is.

 

[bluesneakers]

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

I don't believe his story, but sometimes you just can't wait. It's believable to me that either one could have announced "It's over" upon her return at 2am.

 

[Zella]

13 facts about divorce every couple should know before getting married

Couples may be most likely to divorce in March and August.
2016 research from the University of Washington, presented at the American Sociological Association, found that March and August bring spikes in divorce filings.

The researchers say it's meaningful that March and August follow holiday or vacation periods. In the paper, they suggest that holidays represent something like "optimism cycles" — we see them as a chance to start anew in our relationships, only to find that the same problems exist once they're over.

The researchers also suspect that oftentimes our holiday experiences can be stressful and disappointing, laying bare the real issues in our marriage. As soon as they're over, we're ready to call it quits.
​

That makes sense! Thank you!

 

[SuperTmo]

Do you think there is any possibility he made 2 trips to the burial place
Could he of killed,disposed of the girls in the tanks , returned home & killed her later when she arrived home. Thus she was left in a separate spot. Was it ever cleared up about the opening size of the oil drum.? It does seem like a hurried shallow burial for her. In a way I hope this was the scenario. Because that would mean she never saw / knew what happened to her babies..and it would prove his insane hero story wrong.
JMO

Nope, I personally think that he made sure the girls were wrapped up dead on the couch like the doll in that terrible photo. I think he wanted her to suffer emotionally and mentally with the knowledge of what he did before he killed her. Then he plopped them all on the floor of the backseat of his truck and he took them all at once.

I think he assumed the site was remote enough that nobody would be going around there any time soon and that she wouldn’t be found.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Yes, could be. But I can’t imagine why he didn’t kill himself. He didn’t seem to have any intention of doing so, so I find it hard to reach that he did this for financial reasons, or because he wouldn’t be seeing his kids every day. This case is baffling to me.

He didn't kill himself because he had plans.

I think he planned this whole thing in advance. Which weekend, where to dispose of bodies, what he was going to tell people.

When he thought he was getting away with it he started dropping hints about the next phase in his plan: selling the house.

He really thought he was going to disappear his family and get a fresh start.

Moo

 

[cottonweaver]

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

Agree with you. And why would he want to get into something heavy at 4/5am in the morning just before he has to go to work?
If he wanted a drop the bomb & run type conversation, he may as well have done that remotely on the phone/by text whilst she was away.

IMO with the little info we have, he made it up the separation talk as an option to cover their vanishing/murder and it certainly had more than a grain of truth to it.

He had a few scenarios, badly worked out, just the same as he subtly suggested an abduction to media, or stated that that she was on a play-date initially.
(Every one of those CW interviews could be picked apart as a man acting and trying to see how well he's convincing the world with his "options"/scenarios. Indeed the Thayer's said his big concern was how he was being perceived, not going out searching for the kids. )

If at trial we find the neighbour did hear some kind of argument or crying, I suppose his 4/5 separation talk could be a cover for in case neighbours heard noise but as said before, on the scraps we have, I guess she was strangled once she fell asleep.

 

[SuperTmo]

Does anyone know if these trips were free?

I think the friend of Shanann who is so gracious to post here said something about it in one of her posts but I can’t remember. It may be in the one on the first page or so.

 

[SuperTmo]

My opinion is that he was repeating some false media reports that said CW confessed.

Wait. Why do we think the media reports that he confessed were wrong? LE said that he confessed the same night he was arrested.

 

[tjredline]

For member The Saint, re floor plan.
A few members have tried and had no luck. This is an equivalent home, again it has no floor plan.

This is from a previous thread where we were discussing the loft area sofa ( phone left there) There are some theory scenarios at the start of thread 9 as to how that sofa might fit in to a scenario.

6508 Saratoga Trl, Frederick, CO 80516 - realtor.com®

Obviously this is not The Actual Sofa.

There are floor plans for their house, it is not under the builders website for their location but other locations. If that helps some. I'll see if I can link here in a bit.

 

[Sarahlou]

Nope, I personally think that he made sure the girls were wrapped up dead on the couch like the doll in that terrible photo. I think he wanted her to suffer emotionally and mentally with the knowledge of what he did before he killed her. Then he plopped them all on the floor of the backseat of his truck and he took them all at once.

I think he assumed the site was remote enough that nobody would be going around there any time soon and that she wouldn’t be found.

Exactly my thoughts. I think she found them wrapped like that photo. I feel pretty certain something like that happened. Horrid.

 

[Mamamiamaria]

i am beginning to wonder if this was planned, but executed earlier than he expected or intended. This would account for the more well thought out aspects and also the badly executed parts.

Say he decided he was going to do this and was in the middle of planning it, but Shanann told him that night she and the kids were leaving him to return to her home place and this spurred him into action sooner than planned ? Just my own thoughts/opinion

 

[Bill Carson]

13 facts about divorce every couple should know before getting married

Couples may be most likely to divorce in March and August.
2016 research from the University of Washington, presented at the American Sociological Association, found that March and August bring spikes in divorce filings.

The researchers say it's meaningful that March and August follow holiday or vacation periods. In the paper, they suggest that holidays represent something like "optimism cycles" — we see them as a chance to start anew in our relationships, only to find that the same problems exist once they're over.

The researchers also suspect that oftentimes our holiday experiences can be stressful and disappointing, laying bare the real issues in our marriage. As soon as they're over, we're ready to call it quits.
​

I think divorce filings increase in March because that is when people start to get their tax refunds, which they then use to hire a lawyer.

 

[Cora]

He didn't kill himself because he had plans.

I think he planned this whole thing in advance. Which weekend, where to dispose of bodies, what he was going to tell people.

When he thought he was getting away with it he started dropping hints about the next phase in his plan: selling the house.

He really thought he was going to disappear his family and get a fresh start.

Moo

I agree with this. He was just too cold and glib in the aftermath. He just wanted to go live his life without the baggage. I would not be surprised if there were not an upcoming trip or some other plans with the AP.

 

[PommyMommy]

Did you notice on that Fox interview ( link at start of this thread, dog barking one) he makes a thing about leaving every, single light on in the house, on the one night he stays in the family home?

Respectfully snipped for focus.

Just like he "makes a thing" about the garage door being unlocked, saying that is normal. Really? His response was to a question about whether the house was locked. He over-explains and adds unnecessary details. Just a hunch, but he is offering this information (every light in the house on) as an excuse. Why was every light on? Probably because he was going through the house with a fine-toothed comb. JMO

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

In addition to having to work the next day, Shanann told him (according to him) that she was going to a friend's. If she was leaving him, and we don't know that, so - emphasis on "if," his opportunity diminishes.

 

[cottonweaver]

There are floor plans for their house, it is not under the builders website for their location but other locations. If that helps some. I'll see if I can link here in a bit.

That would be great thankyou.

 

[SuperTmo]

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

I mean... I wouldn’t hold it against a parent for not showing up for that if they had to work. It’s preschool.

 

[Bill Carson]

There are floor plans for their house, it is not under the builders website for their location but other locations. If that helps some. I'll see if I can link here in a bit.

Thanks. It shouldn't be hard to find. Builders in Colorado lack imagination. They will put up a subdivision using 5 or 6 floor plans, modifying each subtly, but the developments are depressingly uniform.