CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

I am asking if someone on this site has pre-established verified connections with surviving kin. If establishing this connection is a violation of this site's TOS, I'm sure I'll be contacted but thank you for the words of caution. I appreciate you looking out for me


Hi Rosesfromangels.

Yes, it is normally against TOS but our this is a bit different situation. I understand some of Roger 's family reads here. I am hoping they will contact Mindhunter directly.

From the article Mom24 posted:

“A few days before the 11th anniversary of her son’s disappearance, Evelyn Ellison died at Delta County Memorial Hospital. Just like her husband, family believed her death was largely triggered by her grief for her son.

‘It gets to you,’ Roy Ellison told a reporter at the time. ‘You check, you follow through, you still get nothing. Every time there’s a body found, you wonder if it’s Roger, and it isn’t.’

His mom died at the age of 70.”

Does this mean Roy is one of Roger’s brothers?

Perhaps all of the siblings’ first names start with the letter “R”: Roger, Becky (Rebecca?) and Roy.
 
Just adding a few missing facts
member of Powderhorn Racing Club
Lived with his parents in Eckert, CO
youngest of 5 children
48 hours was the wait time to report a missing person
Mother- Evelyn (died Feb 9, 1992)
Father- Ernest (died Aug. 21, 1981)
Sister - Rebecca - (died Nov. 30, 2017)
 
From the article Mom24 posted:

“A few days before the 11th anniversary of her son’s disappearance, Evelyn Ellison died at Delta County Memorial Hospital. Just like her husband, family believed her death was largely triggered by her grief for her son.

‘It gets to you,’ Roy Ellison told a reporter at the time. ‘You check, you follow through, you still get nothing. Every time there’s a body found, you wonder if it’s Roger, and it isn’t.’

His mom died at the age of 70.”

Does this mean Roy is one of Roger’s brothers?

Perhaps all of the siblings’ first names start with the letter “R”: Roger, Becky (Rebecca?) and Roy.
I believe Roy is one of the brothers. Rebecca's fb page is still up under Becky Ellison (Livingston). If this is a TOS violation please delete.
 
I'm still trying to find information about the school system, if anyone can help out or lives in the area.
-the daily schedule
-how many classes per day
-and a long shot, but what were Roger's classes that day.
It would give us a baseline to start from.

Would also help to know how many others were on the ski team and where they all were from.
 
Sorry, keep thinking of one more thing, but there is also mention of articles in the Denver Post. I can't find any in the archives without paying, if anyone has a membership to old newspaper sites and can search old articles that would be amazing.
 
I posted, "Some believe Roger was gay," not "I believe Roger was gay."

I have no idea - though perhaps it would explain his perceived mindset before disappearing.
I understand. I’m asking for the source. Who is believing the missing subject was gay?
 
I understand. I’m asking for the source. Who is believing the missing subject was gay?
There was earlier discussion here on the Ellison thread, for example.

Roger seems to have sought out a "hip" teacher about a matter of importance to himself.

Others pointed out that he seems to have personified certain gay stereotypes: meticulous in appearance, no known girlfriends, etc.

I have not re-read the thread since becoming a member so these posts may have been removed earlier.

His sister who posted here did not feel her brother was gay. I recall she posted to that effect.

Through secondhand sources I have come to understand that others familiar with the case, did. But it is strictly hearsay, and, as I said, secondhand, at that.

Did Roger leave with an older acquaintence perhaps sympathetic to his sexuality?

I have never seen that supposition published, only heard it through word of mouth.
 
So a few more things to remember as we go through this case:
In 1981 there were no cellphones, or internet.
This class was the last to graduate from that school, next year the students entered a the building they now use as the high school.
The graduating classes were small, less than 50 students.
Sadly, missing persons weren't investigated the same way they are today.
Students had a lot more freedom, i.e. parents weren't likely called if a student missed school, parents could excuse students from school.
 
There was earlier discussion here on the Ellison thread, for example.

Roger seems to have sought out a "hip" teacher about a matter of importance to himself.

Others pointed out that he seems to have personified certain gay stereotypes: meticulous in appearance, no known girlfriends, etc.

I have not re-read the thread since becoming a member so these posts may have been removed earlier.

His sister who posted here did not feel her brother was gay. I recall she posted to that effect.

Through secondhand sources I have come to understand that others familiar with the case, did. But it is strictly hearsay, and, as I said, secondhand, at that.

Did Roger leave with an older acquaintence perhaps sympathetic to his sexuality?

I have never seen that supposition published, only heard it through word of mouth.
If you can state who made this observation and why, that would be helpful as it points to possible motive and coverup. The world was not as inclusive as it is today.
 
So a few more things to remember as we go through this case:
In 1981 there were no cellphones, or internet.
This class was the last to graduate from that school, next year the students entered a the building they now use as the high school.
The graduating classes were small, less than 50 students.
Sadly, missing persons weren't investigated the same way they are today.
Students had a lot more freedom, i.e. parents weren't likely called if a student missed school, parents could excuse students from school.

I'm thinking parents were called. I was in HS in the early 80s in a moderately sized school and they always called when we were absent, unless my mother called them first. I think that was more the norm than not at that time.
 
Thanks Tricia for the intro for Mindhunter...it brought me to this thread. I have read through the past 2 threads and this one sure is a weird case. I find Pash's posts very interesting and I am still trying to dissect them.
My daughter is a teacher and she said no way would she have students at her house for any reason, although today's world is a bit different than it was back then but I never went to a teachers home for any reason back then. Yes, something a bit hinky about all that. On the flip side, I can see where he would want to defend himself if innocent but I feel he went about it incorrectly.
I hope a cold case investigator is assigned to this case and it becomes more known. I do not know if it has been on Disappeared or not, but I have not seen it and with the popularity of ID and Crimewatch these days, it would be a great avenue to explore to get this case out there in the media. I am just now getting into Lori's site to read up on that and I appreciate Mom24 post with facts about this case.

Teachers have more rules set from the Union and the State that they are teaching in when they get their certificate to teach prohibiting off campus interaction with students in a non school event . It was very common for us to go to teacher's homes for events that were sponsored by the school such as pep rally or club dinners and so forth but that is a big no no these days
 
I think this is one of those cases where it would be good if LE went right back to the beginning and looked at every single thing afresh. For instance His mother says she saw him leave and get on the school bus, and his friend says he saw him at his locker. But often people make assumptions based on the fact the same things happen every day. For instance is it possible his mother just saw him leave, then saw the bus leave and assumed he was on it, and the locker friend saw Roger's books in the locker and assumed he had been there. At the time LE might not have questioned too deeply.

As for John Pash, I can understand why he might be angry. If I was accused of murdering a teenager for thirty years and had my name put across the web as some sort of deviant by anonymous people I would be mightly bitter and angry too.
I'm reading up on this cold case and bumping this post as I agree and was my initial thought, too. The investigation needs to begin a anew from the beginning. I hope he's found so his family can finally be at peace. :(
 
Roger John Ellison – The Charley Project
Bringing forward Roger's Charley Page.

In 1994, a former classmate of Roger's said his body might be buried at the house where Pash lived in 1981. Pash had sold it in 1984 and moved away.

Authorities searched the house with ground-penetrating radar and saw some anomalies, including two under the concrete garage floor, but they decided not to dig.
...................................

Does anyone presently live in that house?

And, is there any chance LE might be able to get a permit to dig under the garage floor?
 
Hi Satch, Great research! I read Mr. Pash's response and all the links you added.

My :twocents:

The first thing we need to do when looking at this case is to put it in perspective time wise. This occurred in 1981. It is very easy to throw in our knowledge about current research into psychology, suicide, new societal norms, etc when we look in hindsight.


I am not defending or suggesting Mr. Pash's innocence or guilt. But, I do think he has some very valid points. While his post may appear defensive, strange, and have an attitude of superior intelligence, I do think, as he puts it "the witch hunt" eventually would lead all of us to make similar statements. In context with the 1980's...

1. Suicide was not openly discussed as it is now. Reporting systems were not in place for that during the time. Abuse was a "family" secret, etc. If Roger indicated he was suicidal or hated his life in a project he didn't know was to be turned in that is not the fault of Mr. Pash. How Mr. Pash handled it (here is the hindsight or what we know know about suicide and reporting laws) could be what we would now consider wrong. But, at the time, given Mr. Pash was doing what many teachers do by teaching many subjects that they are not degreed in it may have never occurred to him. A degree in History is ONE area of social sciences and can't be confused with practical and working knowledge of all subject areas. The major "error" if you could call it that was having students turn in an assignment they thought would be confidential. A history major would not know how de-stabalizing that could be to a depressed young person. If Roger's answers appeared on the board, he would have felt everyone knew it was his thoughts (people really didn't) and that could be a catalyst for him to disappear. In hindsight, we know this is a bad idea, in the 1980's the research wasn't there. Do we know everything in the assignment that Roger submitted? If Roger smoked pot (not uncommon) did he openly write who he got it from, etc in that paper? Did he want to disappear after the requirement to submit an assignment he treated as a personal self-disclosure/diary? In essence having to submit this assignment may have pushed him over the edge if he took it very seriously and wrote his true feelings. Mr. Pash is not a psychologist, thus, requested the submission of the assignment and the potential issues it could cause was not on his mind. And realistically, it is not something that even the cutting edge psychologists at the time would have totally been aware of.

2. Mr. Pash maybe talks to the mother. Most teachers would especially after LE confiscates an assignment as evidence and Pash may not have even given a second thought to it. He may have not been savvy or handled it correctly with the parents. He may have eluded to the paper and why he was questioned by police. But, honestly...he may have just bumbled through a visit trying to help. Again, the reaction to the suggestion of "suicide" in the 1980's is going to be a lot different then now. We now have resources, we now understand a lot more, it was a taboo subject then that was often considered a reflection on parenting. Even a teen writing, I wish I was never born could be taken out of context, especially if Roger's parents felt it reflected on them. So, how the mother reacted and our ideas about responsible reporting and signs of suicidal behavior are far different from 1981.

3. Parents often assume that because children get straight-A's and are involved in competitive sports, their lives are fine. As someone who was a ski racer, I can tell the the sheer amount of pressure to do well in everything can push anyone over the edge. In fact, I gave it up because it stopped being fun. So, while Roger was an overachiever in some ways, perhaps this was NOT making him happy. Perhaps, he really was burnt out, tired, and miserable. Not all kids manifest their struggles by letting grades slip or dropping out of sports. In fact, this correlation of signs of depression did not evolve until the 1990s.

4. About Mr. Pash being gay. Of course people would say that. In the 1980's the LGBT community were persecuted. Remember the AIDS/HIV was being discovered and it was called GRID (Gay-Related Immunodeficiency Disease)? While there is a chance Mr. Pash was married 4 times and had really young children as a "cover-up" the reality is the "gayness" is just another way to vilify or marginalize Mr. Pash. Many people still think all gay men are pedophiles..image the ideas back then in small town America. Red Herring.

5. There are comments from students in the posts about the orgies, drug use, and such at Mr. Pash's house. This is possible, I know certain ethical adult-child boundaries and relationships were not common in the 1980's. But, the big thing is of all the posters not a single one identified themselves except Mr. Pash. So we have anonymous people claiming some pretty significant things without verification. While they do not need to be verified publicly, the blog author is journalistically negligent by not verify sources of information. That being said, it is also very common for victims of crimes to transfer their abuse to a person that cannot hurt them. Not that this is correct, but, when disclosing abuse to get help (especially if the perp is known, near, and could re-victimize them) it is easy to fabricate who the abuser was. Mr. Pash, already a target, who is out of the area is a safe person to blame abuse on to get help. It is very possible Mr. Pash is what the posters say he is, however, in all fairness to both victims of abuse and those accused who may be innocent, we can't place Mr. Pash on trial for something posted by an anonymous blogger.

5. Roger most likely left the school on his own accord as there was no obvious struggle. He most likely did return his books to school. We all know (NOW) that suicidal people usually take care of "business" prior to ending their lives. We don't have enough information to figure out if Roger had any other behaviors that we now know are red flags. This really does complicate the case, because, not all leads are being checked out. If we focus only on the foul-play angle, we may miss other clues to what happened. While he most likely is not still here, if we look at where he may have gone from the school, the locations will be very different if we take his depression seriously vs. just looking at Mr. Pash or some other person abducting/killing him.

6. During the time of Roger's disappearance there where multiple cases of young boys/men vanishing in Colorado during the time. From 1978 to 1984 there were about 3 a year. What needs to be looked at is if there is a connection in these cases and if we are missing the "big picture" on the situation.

:twocents:
Great post by LucyOso.

I want to add that in the early 80's it was not uncommon for coaches to get together with their team outside of school, often at the coaches' houses. Drinking, smoking pot at a coach's house, not unheard of either. I know someone just a few years younger than Roger was who was in sports and they got together with the coaches at their houses all the time. It was usually to eat, kind of like a team building, comrade activity. The person I know would often leave school in the middle of the day with another teammate to go make a beer run for the coach. They would leave, go to the beer store, come back, put the beer in the coach's car, or sometimes take it directly to the teacher (in a duffle bag, of course.) They were caught once by the principle but they did not get in trouble, just the parents were called. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that students would hang at coach Pash's house. Maybe the coach smoked pot too. Maybe he asked Roger, the responsible student, to go make a pot run that day. The an altercation happened with the dealers. This is just as likely to me as him committing suicide. We now know that those who commit suicide don't always show obvious signs. Maybe there was a reason for committing suicide in his journal entry. This is the most likely scenario vs. a pot deal gone bad.

One question though, how far away were the woods where the poachers saw the men with a gun pointed at a tied up man? (If this is true, what cowards the poachers were. :( )
 
If you can state who made this observation and why, that would be helpful as it points to possible motive and coverup. The world was not as inclusive as it is today.
Which observation? I documented what I could and was as clear as possible.

The world was not as inclusive as it is today.
True, but what point specifically are you trying to make? Some feel that Roger may have left home for just that reason.

Also, it would be germane to understanding my response(s) to go back and read the entire Ellison threads here. I myself have no direct information, as I tried to make clear.
 
I agree Satch. It would be very easy to disappear into the moutons if someone wanted to commit suicide. The only other thing I can imagine is a competitor. Did anyone lose a spot or not get a spot on the ski team, college ski team, etc because Roger was better? Anyone on a wait-list list? ...Think Kerrigan and Harding. That stuff does happen...
!!!
 

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