Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #19

[Thepoet]

Possibly. But his job is in the field. He's supposed to be there at those sites. If he went elsewhere wouldn't he be worried that GPS would show him in some desolate lands nearby where LE might search?

Maybe he never thought they would think to look into oil tanks. Maybe he planned initially to put his wife there too. But couldn't due to her weight:

"But Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often askew,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!"

It was actually smart to try to conceal them where he was already supposed to be.

Excellent. That's true. Initially good planning; some place he was supposed to be, and yet far out, would mark any odors, and would eventually nullify all clues. That plan was ruined by the late flight.

 

[Thepoet]

People are emotional (rightly so) when it comes to crimes against children. The jury will be no different here, and it will bode very badly for the defense of C.W. I can’t imagine that any jury would buy his insane tale of Shanann doing his. He’s going to get atleast two first degree murder convictions for the children, if not for Shanann as well.

I think the prosecution will make a clean sweep! Three strikes and he's out!

 

[MassGuy]

I think the prosecution will make a clean sweep! Three strikes and he's out!

I think that’s far more probable than not.

 

[ray9898]

I guess I’m wondering then, what was the plan going to be (in re: to disposing of the bodies), if SW’s flight got home on time, and he killed them all? Where was he going to take the bodies, and when—still Monday I assume, maybe in the midnight to 5am hours?

That is why I do not think it was a planned event. The timeline was going to be problem either way. I have seen nothing that would make me think this something that had to happen that night. That is why I think it was a spur of the moment crime.

Either way, nothing after the deaths shows there was any planning involved.

 

[Thepoet]

....but I don't think he was scheduled to be at that site because the reports I read said he told LE his day started at a completely different location. He had to know that would raise a flag especially since the abnormal hour would stand out. Plus if he was cognizant over the GPS trail he had to know it would lead them right to the disposal site.

First, at that point he thought he was too smart to be caught.

Second, I believe where he left the bodies was on the way to his work site.

Finally, if everything was planned and prepared for ahead of time, he was stuck when the delayed flight forced him to move quickly.

 

[gitana1]

He sure was quick to come up with the best defense ever. by saying he killed his wife after the children, there are two separate events.

Therefore the jury could be split like we are here, and whether the children were killed first or the wife was killed first. If that happens, that is concern of mine that we will end up with a split jury because they can't agree on which came first and therefore they will not charge on first-degree for all of them.

thankfully there are lesser charges, but they could run concurrent versus consecutive, and if that happens, that will be what, 4 years?

@gitana... how do they decide concurrent versus consecutive?

I think the judge decides. Looks like the sentencing court has discretion. If there's more than one victim a consecutive sentence could be more likely:

Concurrent vs. Consecutive Sentencing in Colorado | Denver Criminal Defense Attorneys | Arapahoe County Criminal Defense Law Firm

If the jury convicts him of second degree murder for Shanann, but with a heat of passion finding, he could get a reduced sentence.

Second degree murder = minimum of 16 years in Colorado and up to 48.

Second degree murder is reduced to third degree "extraordinary risk" felony with a range of 4-16 years, if they find he acted with a heat of passion.

"Second Degree Murder" |Colorado Law 18-3-103 C.R.S.

Class 3 Felony Crimes in Colorado

I believe there's no chance in hell a judge would sentence him to 4 years.

I don't see any scenario, even if he is believed, where a jury could find this to be just manslaughter "reckless killing". 2-6 years prison.
Colorado "manslaughter" laws (explained by defense lawyers)

@MCDRAW asked me last thread if I thought he could get acquitted. I'm pretty confident he won't. But I'm scared of the process to get there. Like a hung jury first.

I think, I hope, I pray it will be guilty of five counts of first degree murder.

 

[MassGuy]

That is why I do not think it was a planned event. The timeline was going to be problem either way. I have seen nothing that would make me think this something that had to happen that night. That is why I think it was a spur of the moment crime.

I agree. As of now, there isn’t any evidence that this crime was planned to occur on the night that it did. I think if there was a plan, it was vague in terms of timing and specificity.

 

[gitana1]

....but I don't think he was scheduled to be at that site because the reports I read said he told LE his day started at a completely different location. He had to know that would raise a flag especially since the abnormal hour would stand out. Plus if he was cognizant over the GPS trail he had to know it would lead them right to the disposal site.

Good point. Can you link me?

 

[BingoBongo]

I think his original "plan" was to make them all disappear via the tanks (physical degradation over time would probably have achieved that). He'd just claim that SW found out about his affairs, confronted him, and then she took off with the girls.

But SW's flight delay, NU and his mother-in-laws persistence which caused LE getting involved quickly, put a major crimp in his "plans". He ran out of time and had to make something up...SW strangling her girls, and him strangling her.

He probably ran into complications disposing of SW's body (tank opening too small/too hard to carry her?) and thought he's temporarily hide her, then come back later and do a better job of disposal.

Makes me sick to type those words; disposal, degradation, disappear. :-(

Normal people will never be able to comprehend how a spouse and parent can do those things and think that way. Normal people have empathy and the ability to truly love. I don't believe he does.

 

[molly1255]

....but I don't think he was scheduled to be at that site because the reports I read said he told LE his day started at a completely different location. He had to know that would raise a flag especially since the abnormal hour would stand out. Plus if he was cognizant over the GPS trail he had to know it would lead them right to the disposal site.

You are correct, and this is what perplexes me. Per the arrest affidavit, CW told LE on Monday that at 5:27 a.m. that morning, he left to check on a job site near Hudson. He did point LE in the right overall direction, but my understanding is SW and the girls' bodies were discovered about 15 miles to the NE of Hudson.

I don't know what to make of this, other than maybe he wasn't aware that GPS would be so exact?

 

[Thepoet]

Signs of disorganization come into play in the very first act after the crime. No rational person plans to kill their entire family inside the home knowing the best plan they have is to dump the bodies hastily on a work property....in a work truck that presumably had GPS tracking....while carrying your cell phone....and leaving items behind that directly connect to your home.

If there had been any planning at all the dump site would've been somewhere on those desolate lands nearby and certainly not on a work-site of his employer.

I don't think anyone believes he was or is rational! Rational people don't annihilate their family. Many killers, have in fact, murdered in their homes. MacDonald did. Peterson probably did. And the list goes on. Gitana makes some good points, above, about the location. It's that pesky little flight delay that changed everything. And then NAU changed it all again. And still he was so cool, calm, and collected during the interviews, except when the smirking devil peeked out!

 

[Thepoet]

You are correct, and this is what perplexes me. Per the arrest affidavit, CW told LE on Monday that at 5:27 a.m. that morning, he left to check on a job site near Hudson. He did point LE in the right overall direction, but my understanding is SW and the girls' bodies were discovered about 15 miles to the NE of Hudson.

I don't know what to make of this, other than maybe he wasn't aware that GPS would be so exact?

Isn't Hudson on the way to Cervi 319?

 

[wyldcynic]

Those kids were so young, and this guy was apparently able to keep his affairs secret for some time. I doubt that he would have been so reckless as to allow his kids to expose him, when he had apparently taken significant steps to keep his wife from discovering.

Their age makes it less likely in my opinion that they “spilled the beans.”

I think some sort of explosive argument began after SW arrived home that night, and the rest is (tragic) history.

The scenario I was suggesting is one on which SW had already discovered the adultery. And maybe the girls overheard her talking about the situation and one of them let it slip, so CW knew plans for them to leave were underway. I agree on the explosive argument point...and any number of things could have led to that.

 

[BingoBongo]

I think his original "plan" was to make them all disappear via the tanks (physical degradation over time would probably have achieved that). He'd just claim that SW found out about his affairs, confronted him, and then took she off with the girls.

But SW's flight delay, NU and his mother-in-laws persistence which caused LE getting involved quickly, put a major crimp in his "plans". He ran out of time and had to make something up...SW strangling her girls, and him strangling her.

He probably ran into complications disposing of SW's body (tank opening too small/too hard to carry her?) and thought he's temporarily hide her, then come back later and do a better job of disposal.

Makes me sick to type those words; disposal, degradation, disappear. :-(

Normal people will never be able to comprehend how a spouse and parent can do those things and think that way. Normal people have empathy and the ability to truly love. I don't believe he does.

Or...maybe there was no real plan, but a long-simmering anger. One night that anger boiled over into murderous rage and the rest was his cobbled-together plan to hastily hide the bodies without a lot of thought going into tying up all the loose ends.

Once reality set in, and he knew what a mess he'd made of it all, he came up with a half-*advertiser censored**ed plan to cover his *advertiser censored**. I think the interviews with the media on his front porch were enlightening in that (to me) they reflected a nervousness, a need to self-protect/self-soothe (hugging himself and rocking) and a barely hidden evil smirk.

I think this is a guy who deep down, has no feelings for others. He was good at emulating what is "normal" until that didn't suit his needs any longer. But at some point, I think he felt the depth of what he'd done, not from a sense of horror and shame, but the sense that now his goose was cooked and he was in trouble big time. His feelings, are only for himself.

Editing my posts to correct spelling and incomplete/unclear thoughts. And, fat fingers.

 

[Thepoet]

A friend of mine works for a school district transportation department and he told me the buses have two (2) GPS. One that actually allows them to go online and see where the bus is. The other monitors and records speed and other information. I wonder if CW's Anadarko truck is like that. Maybe he disconnected one not knowing about the other.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure this Yeager is as he says he is. Cannot find any real links to his qualification, and the ones he lists on his blog sound...almost made up, or at least, without any real merit/status/qualifications. Googling him brings up some interesting comments in another crime-type blog. Some sites list him as "Dr." and yet I can find no validation for that. And his Linkedin profile is, a bit, made-up of high sounding attributes that don't appear to amount to much.

Not saying his summation of Watts is wrong, but I have serious doubts of his standing in the field of forensics.

I had a look too BB. Try imbd , he has a list on there.

This link also had 4 mistresses as current tally incl their hair color - based on FB groups.
I was at 6 incl the swingers woman last month. I don't think we've reached the bottom yet....




of journalism scrapes from FB!

 

[gitana1]

He seemed VERY nervous in his TV interviews IMO. In fact, his body language was a dead giveaway.

I really disagree. I think he had some tells that betrayed some slight level of anxiety. Like hard swallows. But he was relatively calm as a cucumber.

Very nervous? Not close. That would include signs like dry mouth, which actually appears with just general nervousness, trembling -we saw none- sweating (also none), breathlessness or inability to catch his breath (none), rapid blinking, etc.

I've seen more nerves in people giving a speech or stopped for a traffic violation!

 

[ray9898]

First, at that point he thought he was too smart to be caught.

Second, I believe where he left the bodies was on the way to his work site.

Finally, if everything was planned and prepared for ahead of time, he was stuck when the delayed flight forced him to move quickly.

No way. Even the dumbest criminal knows as a spouse you will be the first suspect in a family disappearance. You don't leave a breadcrumb trail to the bodies unless it is the only option you have leaving you to hope for the best. No one thinks they are that smart, it is obvious even to a moron that will be followed up on.

They lived in Frederick, he told LE his day started at a site in Hudson which was 20 miles from his home. The actual disposal site was near Roggen was was another 20 miles away.

 

[Thepoet]

I really disagree. I think he had some tells that betrayed some slight level of anxiety. Like hard swallows. But he was relatively calm as a cucumber.

Very nervous? Not close. That would include signs like dry mouth, which actually appears with just general nervousness, trembling -we saw none- sweating (also none), breathlessness or inability to catch his breath (none), rapid blinking, etc.

I've seen more nerves in people giving a speech or stopped for a traffic violation!

Don't forget, he never rubbed his eyes or face, doing so would have been a sign of sadness or distress. And he primped for the reporter who commented on his shirt.

 

[scapa]

I'm not sure this Yeager is as he says he is. Cannot find any real links to his qualification, and the ones he lists on his blog sound...almost made up, or at least, without any real merit/status/qualifications. Googling him brings up some interesting comments in another crime-type blog. Some sites list him as "Dr." and yet I can find no validation for that. And his Linkedin profile is, a bit, made-up of high sounding attributes that don't appear to amount to much.

Not saying his summation of Watts is wrong, but I have serious doubts of his standing in the field of forensics.

Good catch. I had my suspicions when I first read his take on CW -- don't understand the leaps he makes from adultery to multiple murder -- the former is neither neither necessary nor sufficient for the latter, and no psychologist I work with would suggest it -- among several other dubious claims.