Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[MsBetsy]

Good morning Sleuthers!

For those who missed last night's WS Radio, you can listen in by clicking the link within the banner at the top of the page. I was glad to discover that this AM, and am really enjoying the show.

Kudos to @gitana1!

Note: I found your breakdown of the charges to be very helpful, especially the comparison that in making sure the baby was not born by killing the mother, CW was, in a way, "killing two birds with one stone." When put in those words, it further magnifies the scope of what he has done.

JMO

I also believe that charge was a creative way around making him accountable for the death of a fetus, since it doesn't exist in that state. Imo

 

[cottonweaver]

My husband is estranged from much of his family for various reasons that are his own. But if God forbid anything happens to either of us, there's zero doubt in my mind that my in-laws would immediately and ferociously throw me under the bus. Even as a victim. It's always my fault, whatever it is. It's taken many years to accept this on both of our parts as it is heartbreaking. It demeans him as a man and capable adult and disrespects us both, plus it's very inaccurate as I adore him and let him lead. I know many women here know exactly what I mean. It's sadly quite common.

As a VI, my MIL would terrify me from beyond. None of it would be correct or without extreme manipulation and bias, but butter wouldn't melt.

So I am not speaking on this case specifically or any VI on this or any case... but I do agree that although it's essential to be respectful, it doesn't automatically make their version of events true. Especially over the victim's own voice. JMO.

I can't speak to MIL bad relationships personally, I know many of my female friends have or have had fraught ones but I haven't personally but I just wanted to make a point about the bib above because it also related to a point in @katydid23 's post earlier. ( quoted at the bottom)
VI isalybra - couldn't speak to any separation rumours ( katydid's reference on separation) just as other close friend NUA couldn't ( CW's mention of it to her was the first she had heard of it , on the Monday, despite being close and being with her all weekend)
The victim's own voice = so excited to be going home after her long NC vacation
However the perp's version included separation.

What's my point?
It's that we are all, always picking and choosing our own preferred versions, all the time.
If we're going to make the victim's own voice the "benchmark" we have to note that she was happy & things were good in her marriage and that benchmark would then logically need to be applied to a very many topics that many members have already queried incl income & finances too. (I don't want to belabour the point but with that in mind, we couldn't query income/finances & we'd then have to extrapolate to all kinds of other household/family topics where SW's voice was the benchmark.)

I think it is OK for me to accept the homicide detectives and DA's opinion at this time. It's not like I am pointing my finger at him, with no evidence. The investigators had to submit evidence to the DA, in order to bring these charges and arrest him.

Whatever they have seen and collected, forensically, led them to bring these charges.

Just because this man says that the pregnant woman he strangled to death was really the killer, it does not mean I have to believe him. His version of the story does not ring true to me, for many reasons.

His wife had just spent 6 weeks separated from him. She already told some friends and family that she was headed for separation. She had a lot of support from family and friends. She had her own income and a place to stay if she needed one.

There is no reason to believe that she would suddenly and brutally strangle those babies, over old news.

And if for some reason, she had done so, he would have called 911 immediately to try and save them. And if he saw his 2 girls were dead, he wouldn't then kill his only remaining child minutes later.

YES, my mind is pretty well closed, in terms of this scenario being thrown out there by CW.

...as was said upthread, an open mind is good, but not so open that your brains fall out...

 

[SausagePizza]

In the news today.

Chris Watts' attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the media.

I am wondering what those suspected leaks were?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So.

I do not care whether SW was verbally abusive to CW or not. It’s irrelevant, IMO.

There's no justification for what has been done. CW had the strength to overpower Shanann and the girls, Shanann did not.

That’s just it. Nobody is saying his actions are justified. No matter what the circumstances were CW murdering SW and baby Niko is NOT justified. We are only looking what could have potentially contributed to a failing relationship.

 

[esmerelda]

I can't speak to MIL bad relationships personally, I know many of my female friends have or have had fraught ones but I haven't personally but I just wanted to make a point about the bib above because it also was in @katydid23 's post earlier. ( quoted at the bottom)
VI isalybra - couldn't speak to any separation rumours ( katydid's reference on separation) just as other close friend NUA couldn't ( CW's mention of it was the first she had heard, on the Monday, despite being close and being with her all weekend)
The victim's own voice = so excited to be going home after her long NC vacation
However the perp's version included separation.

What's my point?
It's that we are all, always picking and choosing our own preferred versions, all the time.
If we're going to make the victim's own voice the "benchmark" we have to note that she was happy & things were good in her marriage and that benchmark would then logically need to be applied to a very many topics that members have discussed incl income & finances too.

This is interesting. I remember during the breakdown of my marriage, at work I dreaded the coming weekend. There was nothing to look forward to, the only time in my life I wished I was anyone but me. I would have worked the entire weekend for free so I didn't have to be home.

 

[Layla123]

It doesn't necessarily mean by hand. HOWEVER, the latest cowrt order, posted upthread, has the prosecution asking for handprints, palm and fingers, of the defendant. So I am thinking they have possible neck wound prints?

I think this is the breaking news! LE has asked for CW’s fingerprints, handprints, palm prints, and DNA. Yesterday, the guest medical examiner on AB was talking about just that. He explained that whoever strangled the children will have left fingerprints, finger impressions, markings, or finger damage on their necks. Examiners are able to size them, according to the size of the injury, and they can include or eliminate possible suspects. I’m thinking there is a strong possibility that Bella and CeCe were left with marks on their necks, and C.W. and S.W. have totally different size hands. They’re going to be able to offer forensic evidence proving which one of them actually killed the children.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

In the news today.

Chris Watts' attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the media.

I am wondering what those suspected leaks were?

Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press

In a public court filing, the DA’s office argued that information obtained by the media about Bella and Celeste dying by strangulation came from a defense motion, rather than leaks from the prosecution or law enforcement.

The DA’s office also claims that additional information about the case came from the unsealed arrest affidavit for Chris Watts.

In the motion, Rourke outlined the efforts his office made to prevent leaks, but acknowledged instances where media outlets “allegedly obtained information from sources within law enforcement.”

 

[SausagePizza]

I think this is the breaking news! LE has asked for CW’s fingerprints, handprints, palm prints, and DNA. Yesterday, the guest medical examiner on AB was talking about just that. He explained that whoever strangled the children will have left fingerprints, finger impressions, markings, or finger damage on their necks. Examiners are able to size them, according to the size of the injury, and they can include or eliminate possible suspects. I’m thinking there is a strong possibility that Bella and CeCe were left with marks on their necks, and C.W. and S.W. have totally different size hands. They’re going to be able to offer forensic evidence proving which one of them actually killed the children.

And wouldn't that be something if there is another proven lie? I guess time will tell?

 

[NuttMegg]

This is interesting. I remember during the breakdown of my marriage, at work I dreaded the coming weekend. There was nothing to look forward to, the only time in my life I wished I was anyone but me. I would have worked the entire weekend for free so I didn't have to be home.

And I was so happy to have the place to myself without having to run every single planned activity by him for a yes/no for 18 years, lest there be a tantrum. Freedom, and I have never again wanted anyone living with me, to pass judgment on my impulses or dreams. But I do understand that a few videos of our marriage would have been posed for the camera and would have shown little of the real dynamics, so based on my own life's lessons, I think the videos of SW/CW are just that.ie staged for the camera and don't deserve a lot of intense analysis of each word. (JMO!)

 

[cshea99]

I have screenshots of SW talking about the nut incident and the reaction Bella had to them. Am I allowed to post them?

 

[cottonweaver]

I have screenshots of SW talking about the nut incident and the reaction Bella had to them. Am I allowed to post them?

Sorry Cshea. You can link here to the SW FB post and posters can go read them, themselves at that site.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think this is the breaking news! LE has asked for CW’s fingerprints, handprints, palm prints, and DNA. Yesterday, the guest medical examiner on AB was talking about just that. He explained that whoever strangled the children will have left fingerprints, finger impressions, markings, or finger damage on their necks. Examiners are able to size them, according to the size of the injury, and they can include or eliminate possible suspects. I’m thinking there is a strong possibility that Bella and CeCe were left with marks on their necks, and C.W. and S.W. have totally different size hands. They’re going to be able to offer forensic evidence proving which one of them actually killed the children.

Doesn't it seem to anyone else that they would have those data by now? I am surprised that nearly a month later that stuff is being "requested". Does a person charged with so many counts of murder actually have the right to be somewhat politely asked for this? And to say "no" if he wants?

 

[MerryB]

<modsnip: snipped quote that was removed>

It’s a shame, because there’s much more to this story than what appears on the surface, IMO.
Many people do not want to hear anything that does not fit with their pre-existing knowledge & beliefs.
While we are all entitled to our own opinions, I encourage everyone to try to remain open-minded, just as we would be instructed to if seated on a jury.

 

[cottonweaver]

Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press

In a public court filing, the DA’s office argued that information obtained by the media about Bella and Celeste dying by strangulation came from a defense motion, rather than leaks from the prosecution or law enforcement.

The DA’s office also claims that additional information about the case came from the unsealed arrest affidavit for Chris Watts.

In the motion, Rourke outlined the efforts his office made to prevent leaks, but acknowledged instances where media outlets “allegedly obtained information from sources within law enforcement.”

Tx for the quote cause anyone outside US can't access that site.
Is the BIB a reference to People/HLN, do you think?

have you any idea what they meant by additional information cause that is also very vague

 

[pinkie60]

I am still trying to read through everything on this case but I wanted to know if the autopsy results have been reported. Do we know for sure that cause of death was from asphyxiation due to strangling? Could the children have been smothered with a pillow or some other object? It was mentioned that the crime may have occurred very late at night so I thought it might be a possibility that they were killed while they were sleeping.

 

[Waterdog]

In the news today.

Chris Watts' attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the media.

I am wondering what those suspected leaks were?

The defense attorneys are sharp and are not messing around. I hope there’s a gag order soon. I have a link, but I don’t care to go get it, but one of the prosecuting lawyers commented on sm. She stated he’s a monster. Well, duh.

 

[idfinch]

I can't speak to MIL bad relationships personally, I know many of my female friends have or have had fraught ones but I haven't personally but I just wanted to make a point about the bib above because it also related to a point in @katydid23 's post earlier. ( quoted at the bottom)
VI isalybra - couldn't speak to any separation rumours ( katydid's reference on separation) just as other close friend NUA couldn't ( CW's mention of it to her was the first she had heard of it , on the Monday, despite being close and being with her all weekend)
The victim's own voice = so excited to be going home after her long NC vacation
However the perp's version included separation.

What's my point?
It's that we are all, always picking and choosing our own preferred versions, all the time.
If we're going to make the victim's own voice the "benchmark" we have to note that she was happy & things were good in her marriage and that benchmark would then logically need to be applied to a very many topics that many members have already queried incl income & finances too. (I don't want to belabour the point but with that in mind, we couldn't query income/finances & we'd then have to extrapolate to other topics where SW's voice was the benchmark.)

I could have very easily omitted that one sentence at the end (now I wish I had) and my post would have had the same intent. I wasn't necessarily raising her voice above all others as the benchmark, but nor am I willing to automatically take any VI's version of events post-death over a version of events that the victim herself described before her death (i.e. nuts, etc).

My point was that being a VI doesn't mean you have any insight or accuracy into the character or relationship behind closed doors, it just means you have some connection to the victim/perp.

 

[cottonweaver]

The defense attorneys are sharp and are not messing around. I hope there’s a gag order soon. I have a link, but I don’t care to go get it, but one of the prosecuting lawyers commented on sm. She stated he’s a monster. Well, duh.

I agree I don't think there should be any leaking from either side, presume most feel same.
so re bib - do you think that's an appropriate thing to do for a lawyer?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I am still trying to read through everything on this case but I wanted to know if the autopsy results have been reported. Do we know for sure that cause of death was from asphyxiation due to strangling? Could the children have been smothered with a pillow or some other object? It was mentioned that the crime may have occurred very late at night so I thought it might be a possibility that they were killed while they were sleeping.

Colorado youth autopsies would be removed from public documents in measure on verge of final passage – The Denver Post

PUBLISHED: May 8, 2018

This article is discussing a new bill. Does anybody know where the bill is right now?

"Colorado lawmakers are on the verge of approving a bill removing autopsy reports involving minors from public documents available under the Colorado Open Records Act.....
The late-session bill was approved overwhelmingly by both chambers — 63-2 in the Democrat-led House and 32-3 in the Republican-led Senate. The House’s vote Tuesday sends the bill back to the Senate, which, after considering minor amendments, is expected to send it to Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper.....

Under Colorado law, surviving families and other parties can ask a judge to seal a minor’s autopsy report. The bill allows parents and legal guardians, law enforcement, criminal defendants and various state agencies to access reports..."

 

[NuttMegg]

It’s a shame, because there’s much more to this story than what appears on the surface, IMO.
Many people do not want to hear anything that does not fit with their pre-existing knowledge & beliefs.
While we are all entitled to our own opinions, I encourage everyone to try to remain open-minded, just as we would be instructed to be if seated on a jury.

We are, in effect, already sitting in the jury, and we have the charges from LE to evaluate and pass judgment on. So from my point of view, there is not a lot more to it until there is a real trial, or until tidbits are released. As I mentioned above, in my POV there is not much to be learned from cherry-picked videos on FB, sometimes with the Bickersons. However there is a lot to be learned from a person who readily consents to very long interviews with the media, claiming to miss his family, sending his dead wife texts, and so forth. And who showed exactly what he thought of his beloved family when he tossed babies into toxic crude.