Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[Mo Thuairim]

We all have opinions and preferences in life, some of them strongly held.
What we think is appropriate to share on social media.
The correct way to parent.
Whether it's OK to banter (bicker?) with your partner in public.
The shadiness or otherwise of MLMs.
I see a lot of those varying opinions here and that's fine. It's a slice of life. A representative sample. I have opinions on some of those things too (others I really don't care about).
But what I don't see is how any of those lifestyle preferences add up to family annihilation.

 

[Jenni]

I don't think so, but maybe. The patches were just vitamins and caffeine stuff.

I found this consumer review of it: Thrive Patch Review [UPDATED SEPTEMBER 2018]: Does It Work?

 

[gitana1]

There is so much known about what happens to children. The Adverse Childhood Experiences is even a law now in several states and I think it is Federal as well in some respects.

If we would change way children are treated at school, have doctors, social workers and police working together, we would have a better world. Less addiction and that includes food, shooping , gambling as well as drugs, less murder, less depression, less DV, less of all of those ills that affect us because of shame based methods of dealing with children.

The research is there.

I see no shame based parenting on her part. None. What people post about a two or three year old having a tantrum or being on time out is not shame based parenting.

Making your kid wear a sign that says they stole? Shame based. Making them wear ugly clothes as punishment? Shame based.

Telling them they're stupid, nasty, embarrassing? Shame based. Telling people to look at their terrible child? Shame based.

Posting a video of your naughty two year old or three year old having a tantrum or being on time out in order to show what life with toddlers is like? Not my thing but it's not shame based parenting unless the parent grabs the kid and says "Look. Mommy is videotaping you and I'm going to show everyone how bad you are."

Further, the sanctimonious judgment I'm talking about is not things like criticizing a parent for forcing a kid to wear a sandwhich board in public about how bad they are, which I have criticized and find abusive.

It's the kind of stuff someone just posted like a parent posting a photo of their kid with the seatbelt just a tad bit too low and having hundreds of people lecture the parent on safety.

Or, IMO, looking at a funny post about how your one year old put herself on time out, to copy the three year old who was actually on time out, and deeming it abusively humiliating and harsh and inappropriate and alluding to that as possible evidence that mommy is a murderer.

That's what we are talking about.

 

[book-thinker]

The morning SW arrived home, CW stated on camera they had been emotional conversation.
I question where the lights on in the house, when she was dropped off.
Had he been drinking? Was he hiding with plans to overtake her?
The homes in their neighborhood are close together. I haven't heard reports of people hearing or reporting arguing.

Few years back. I was visiting family, the homes are close together, I slept in the upstairs bedroom,
I heard the conversations the neighbor was having in he's living room.
This was late at night.

I wondering if the windows were open or closed. in the watts home that morning.
August in Colorado in hot , nights are cooler.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

And there you have it. She says it herself what should be so blatantly obvious, "’I'm not a perfect mom, but I do my best and they love me!"

MOO

And she’s absolutely right. No one is perfect and what might work for me, might not work for someone else and that’s totally fine.

 

[Tricia]

THE WATTS THREAD IS CLOSED FOR A LITTLE WHILE. TOO MANY OFF TOPIC POSTS.

People have been posting that they would like a separate thread. A thread that would only allow a discussion of Chris being the killer of all three and no other possibility is allowed to be discussed.

We are not going to have separate threads.

I think we are all adults here. We all understand this is a true crime forum and topics will not be pleasant.

Please remember, first and foremost, Websleuths is a true crime discussion forum. Coming in a very close second we are victim friendly.

There are those rare occasions where we have to choose what we are and now is one of those occasions. Websleuths is a discussion forum first.

Until there is a verdict or Chris changes his story and says he killed all three then we have to allow for members who believe Chris to discuss this theory. Chris' story is Shanann killed the two girls and he killed Shanann in a fit of rage then buried Shanann in a shallow grave and dropped his two little girls into an oil tanker.

If you see a post that you feel violates our terms of service please hit the "Report" tab in the lower left-hand corner of the post in question. This alerts the mods and someone will come in and look at the situation.

We have the "ignore" feature. Just put your mouse over your name in the upper-right hand corner and a drop down box will appear. You can find the ignore option from there.

If you have a question please send one of us a private message, aka a conversation. Do not make the thread come to a screeching halt because you posted a question about Websleuths.

The thread will be closed between 60 and 90 minutes. Go make yourself a big grilled cheese sandwich fried in butter. Just typing these words makes the sugar count in my blood rise to levels that are not humanly possible.

Let's get along please OK? Roll and scroll is your motto if you don't like a post. Roll your eyes and scroll on by.

Thank you,
Tricia


THE WATTS THREAD IS CLOSED FOR A LITTLE WHILE. TOO MANY OFF TOPIC POSTS.

 

[Tricia]

OK Everyone,

We are going to make sure we do not violate TOS, we are going to make sure we do not go off topic and we are not going to be snarky with each other right?

Good, glad you agree

Continue on.

 

[pocketaccent]

One thing to remember, folks - we have hours of SW's videos and nothing from CW because he deleted his FB account. I don't know what we would have said if we had access to his. So it is OK to look at SW's videos, but don't make far-reaching conclusions, please. We are dissecting SW's posts but have no SM from CW.

All we have from CW is the statement that his wife strangled her daughter. And the interviews with obvious lying.

I think, if anything, the defense may use some of SW's videos to show a loving side of CW with the girls. To normalize and humanize him.

I don't think anyone can surmise who killed the children from the videos I've seen so far (Loser Checkers, water squirt, Santa, whip cream face, CeCe climbing sink, maybe more). They just show different styles of parenting, good or bad, opinions will vary greatly.

But no way the defense would use those videos to prove Shanann killed the girls, or the State to prove CW killed the girls. They are useless in that regard. IMO JMO

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

The morning SW arrived home, CW stated on camera they had been emotional conversation.
I question where the lights on in the house, when she was dropped off.
Had he been drinking? Was he hiding with plans to overtake her?
The homes in their neighborhood are close together. I haven't heard reports of people hearing or reporting arguing.

Few years back. I was visiting family, the homes are close together, I slept in the upstairs bedroom,
I heard the conversations the neighbor was having in he's living room.
This was late at night.

I wondering if the windows were open or closed. in the watts home that morning.
August in Colorado in hot , nights are cooler.

Hi @book-thinker.
I posted this several days back but of course there's no way for any of us to see all posts here (self included) so am commenting again. A good thing to consider!
According to Accuweather's history for Frederick, CO, the weather on Aug 12, 2018 hit 92 during the day and dropped to 49 at night.
Most likely after SW got home at 2 am it was in the 50s. Whether people had their windows open or not -good question.
Our home doesn't cool off upstairs quickly so we'd have the windows open! Others might be closed up with heat on, LOL. Or just closed up.

As an aside, for those that feel some of the input here about SWs behavior has been "vicious," I encourage you to go read some other SM forums on this topic, like some of the FB groups. O-M-G. I have never been offended by anything posted here compared to the outrageous and immature outright insanity on other sites (that didn't offend me, either, but compared to comments here, nothing here has been vicious compared to elsewhere). I'm glad to be here and be able to take in all sides, varying inputs, and am glad we are open to that based on CWs blaming her, whether it's based on fact or not.

 

[nwmouse]

I see no shame based parenting on her part. None. What people post about a two or three year old having a tantrum or being on time out is not shame based parenting.

Making your kid wear a sign that says they stole? Shame based. Making them wear ugly clothes as punishment? Shame based.

Telling them they're stupid, nasty, embarrassing? Shame based. Telling people to look at their terrible child? Shame based.

Posting a video of your naughty two year old or three year old having a tantrum or being on time out in order to show what life with toddlers is like? Not my thing but it's not shame based parenting unless the parent grabs the kid and says "Look. Mommy is videotaping you and I'm going to show everyone how bad you are."

Further, the sanctimonious judgment I'm talking about is not things like criticizing a parent for forcing a kid to wear a sandwhich board in public about how bad they are, which I have criticized and find abusive.

It's the kind of stuff someone just posted like a parent posting a photo of their kid with the seatbelt just a tad bit too low and having hundreds of people lecture the parent on safety.

Or, IMO, looking at a funny post about how your one year old put herself on time out, to copy the three year old who was actually on time out, and deeming it abusively humiliating and harsh and inappropriate and alluding to that as possible evidence that mommy is a murderer.

That's what we are talking about.

That's it in a nutshell. The SM videos on SW's fb page are telling me what a dedicated, patient, super mom SW was. Heaven help me if I were a murder victim and people dissected my life and behavior with my kids based on SM videos.
JMOO but SW appears to be such a loving, interactive mom and I don't see anything aggressive or cruel in her videos.

 

[sun16]

What do you make of CW ‘confessing’ (giving his version of the truth) after being allowed to speak to his father? Is this truth all CW? Did his father influence any part of CW’s description of what happened? Certainly his father knows better than to do that? Did they talk completely privately (no mic, camera, or anyone else in the room)? If so, is that commonly allowed? Will we ever know what they truly discussed (transcript or video)? What do you think would have happened if for some reason CW didn’t get to talk to his father?

 

[nwmouse]

What do you make of CW ‘confessing’ (giving his version of the truth) after being allowed to speak to his father? Is this truth all CW? Did his father influence any part of CW’s description of what happened? Certainly his father knows better than to do that? Did they talk completely privately (no mic, camera, or anyone wlse in the room)? If so, is that commonly allowed? Will we ever know what they discussed (transcript or video)? What do you think would have happened if for some reason CW didn’t get to talk to his father?

I don't know if we'll ever have the answers, but IMOO, CW may have gotten into difficult situations before and turned to his dad to help him out. Possibly he has done other risky things we don't know about and his father had to step in to help. Some may come out during trial if its allowed. CW strikes me as a weak character who usually does what he's told to do. This may be why he was attracted to SW, she was an alpha - strong, bold, lively and a leader. Pity it made him feel so insecure and inadequate. Just MOO.

 

[Bill Carson]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that the prosecution even has the coroner reports yet. Nothing in their motion indicates that to me, and obviously they can't turn over something to the defense that they don't have. It seems to me that they are requesting it to be sealed regardless of what it says, not because of what it says. Am I reading it wrong?
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[L] MOTION TO DENY DISCLOSURE OF PUBLIC RECORD PURSUANT TO CRS 24-72-204(6)(A).pdf
MOO

I agree.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I agree.

For what it's worth, I agree as I think they are just being pre-emptive and getting it sealed before it is released.

 

[Charlot123]

"I cannot stay still".
I'm not sure if this got already questioned or if it is really relevant but...
is there a possibility the defense could blame it all on the patches? Or are they proven "placebo"?

I was thinking about it. I suspect they are placebo, plus, he was taking other things (e.g. Viagra - I read somewhere he had it? Does anyone remember where they posted it?) so the deleterious effect of the patches, separately, would be difficult to prove.

Furthermore, he has then to admit that on the next day when he was lying on TV, bizarrely burying his family and discussing what pizza to order in the evening, he was under the effect of the patches. I hope the next day when he was arrested they were smart enough to draw the blood in jail, or even see if he had the patch on him.

In short, I doubt they could make a case out of it. I checked the ingredients, while I am not aware of the amount of each, I assume they can’t put most people on a murderous rampage path. Unproven effects, maybe. Useless, likely.

 

[katydid23]

Well said. It is so easy to redirect a toddler. The "control via humiliation" route usually does result in a disastrous outcome. Which we certainly have in this case. JMO

I'd really like to understand this ^^^statement.

So is this saying that there is a connection between SW giving timeouts to her toddler and the 'disastrous outcome' of their murders?

Can you explain what the connection could be because I cannot see any possibility of any kind of a connection.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I was thinking about it. I suspect they are placebo, plus, he was taking other things (e.g. Viagra) so the effect of patches would be difficult to prove.

Furthermore, he has then to admit that on the next day when he was lying on TV, bizarrely burying his family and discussing what pizza to order in the evening, he was under the effect of the patches. I hope the next day when he was arrested they were smart enough to draw the blood in jail, or even see if he had the patch on him.

In short, I doubt they could make a case out of it. I checked the ingredients, while I am

In my opinion, there is no way that they took blood from him. That would be so against his constitutional rights which they are already fighting about giving up his Footprints, DNA from a buccal swab, and his palm prints. My own opinion.

 

[book-thinker]

Hi @book-thinker.
I posted this several days back but of course there's no way for any of us to see all posts here (self included) so am commenting again. A good thing to consider!
According to Accuweather's history for Frederick, CO, the weather on Aug 12, 2018 hit 92 during the day and dropped to 49 at night.
Most likely after SW got home at 2 am it was in the 50s. Whether people had their windows open or not -good question.
Our home doesn't cool off upstairs quickly so we'd have the windows open! Others might be closed up with heat on, LOL. Or just closed up.

As an aside, for those that feel some of the input here about SWs behavior has been "vicious," I encourage you to go read some other SM forums on this topic, like some of the FB groups. O-M-G. I have never been offended by anything posted here compared to the outrageous and immature outright insanity on other sites (that didn't offend me, either, but compared to comments here, nothing here has been vicious compared to elsewhere). I'm glad to be here and be able to take in all sides, varying inputs, and am glad we are open to that based on CWs blaming her, whether it's based on fact or not.

Sadly she's not here to defend herself.
Hopefully with CW's upcoming trial, we will have answers.

wish I could hit grammar check on WS

 

[nwmouse]

I was thinking about it. I suspect they are placebo, plus, he was taking other things (e.g. Viagra - I read somewhere he had it?) so the effect of patches would be difficult to prove.

Furthermore, he has then to admit that on the next day when he was lying on TV, bizarrely burying his family and discussing what pizza to order in the evening, he was under the effect of the patches. I hope the next day when he was arrested they were smart enough to draw the blood in jail, or even see if he had the patch on him.

In short, I doubt they could make a case out of it. I checked the ingredients, while I am not aware of the amount, I assume they can’t put most people on a murderous rampage path. Unproven effects, maybe. Useless, likely.

Where did it say CW was using viagra?

 

[kirkassoc]

I am of the impression that if there was a hidden camera and CW was seen on video murdering everyone in the house, and if he finally came out and admitted doing exactly that, there are people who absolutely would still blame SW. Some people don't realize why they want her to be guilty, but I think some people (not saying this about ANY individual posting in here) do not like her or perhaps do not like her perfectionism or for some hidden reason just plain don't like her and so she will always be at fault. JMO, MOO. Mind boggling to me.

 

[Thepoet]

That's it in a nutshell. The SM videos on SW's fb page are telling me what a dedicated, patient, super mom SW was. Heaven help me if I were a murder victim and people dissected my life and behavior with my kids based on SM videos.
JMOO but SW appears to be such a loving, interactive mom and I don't see anything aggressive or cruel in her videos.

Very well said by both you and Gitana. Bravo!