Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[Jennifer17]

@Jennifer17 on thread 25 page 62 as I stated CW regularly did household chores as per our VI @Trinket78 who knew both SW and CW

Yes, that is true but we have the right to believe or not to believe the VI as long as we are not disrespectful.

 

[riolove77]

She did discuss some new information. I was hoping @Layla123 would have posted her recap.

She had someone on who is an expert in the design of the oil tanks the babies were located in. It seems the hole at the top was 8" in diameter. My stomach is still in knots thinking about HOW he could have fit them in there.

I don't think it takes much of the imagination to realize what he had to do to put them in there, and why SW may have ended up in the ground...

 

[CommonLoonatic]

In your opinion, is this a realistic list of accomplishments to have achieved before noon after 3 hours of sleep?

Yes, I've done it. It's exhausting. But, I've done it. I have five kids and I have been up all night with a puking child and still accomplished everything the next day. Because I didn't have a choice. When things need done, and your spouse is working all day, you get them done.

 

[cailleach]

I know men that will do a load of dishes or a load of laundry once every other year out of the hundreds the wife does and boast and/or complain they do all the housework. Same with diapers and childcare. My Experience Only.

Absolutely! I used to be married to a man whose daughter I was raising along with ours and he actually thought he was "babysitting" his own children if he was with them without me. I would have to tell him "*Name,* you cannot babysit your own children. You are their parent, not their sitter." SMDH.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't believe Trinket ever said that he did "most" of the housework, just that he did housework. Which, guess what? My husband does housework too, even with me being a SAHM, because SAHM =/= maid. He's an adult who can clean up after himself and help me around the house when he's off work. (Otherwise, when would I ever get a break?)

ETA: That's not to imply that I make him do tons when he's not working, either. He just has basic chores that he would have to do for himself if he wasn't married with kids... and sometimes, he's in charge of them while I go have lunch with a friend, or go hiking.

As I remember, the VI confirmed that he was "well trained" when it came to housework. I have a feeling that when he did any cleaning, he was cleaning a clean house, since she was such a perfectionist and would have been on top of everything. imo

 

[MassGuy]

IIRC.... please correct me if I'm wrong... the VI also insinuated Shanann may have been (makes me sad to say "have") faking her and her babies illnesses? It would take a lot of research to find the opinions they had of Shanann threads way back which IIRC were not positive at all in general.
Mod please delete if this is wrong

Yes. She did not paint a pretty picture of Shanann. It is up to us to determine this person’s credibility for ourselves, as everyone has their biases, depending on who they are closer too.

 

[k-mac]

BBM.

I'm not ready to accuse CW's father of helping his son.

think its very hard for family to come to terms with such horror, Iam not implying dad is part of the conspiracy likely trying to find something to work with .
of course he is trying to help is son.
that's what parents do.

jmo

 

[gitana1]

IIRC, the family returned from NC on August 7. Is that right?

From her FB post the next morning:

-Went to bed at 2am, up at 5:15am
-2 loads of laundry
-dusted whole house
-cleaned out fridge and pantry and restocked
-2 grocery stores with kids

-Celeste Doctor appointment

‍
-emptied 7 suitcases/3 backpacks and put away
-fed kids a million times
-we all showered (we know this is a win)
-went through 6 weeks of mail

-washed kitchen floor
-cleaned up kids disaster
-repacked my suitcase for Arizona this Friday

They literally said, “we’re going to bed!” And put themselves to bed! Rain machines on and all. They are obviously exhausted from traveling and playing. I’m over here knocking everything out and it’s only noon! The old me would live out of a suit case for 1-2 weeks till it was empty again.
Shanann Watts

* * * * *​

I'm wondering if he did any housework at all while she was gone. MOO

And she carefully made five whole weeks of daily dinners for him - that's 35.

But she's a liar according to some because she acted like everything was going well in her marriage in SM posts.

So I guess poor henpecked CW did it all. And managed to fool around too!

Gotta get me some Thrive!

All kidding aside, my suspicion is that he complained about SW to a family that disliked her and felt he shouldn't have to do work around the house. Felt he was maltreated for being "bossed" by his wife.

And I have this suspicion that CW likely escaped critique by his family by shifting blame to SW for things like moving to Colorado or not visiting enough. Etc.

And allowing allegations that she wasn't a good enough wife. Or mom.

So now we have this narrative that he was totally henpecked and did everything while she sat around and tried to get attention for her and her kid's illnesses. I guess.

 

[roteone]

Thanks for this info. A member here on WS mentioned that CW may have had to break the toddler's bones to fit them in the crude oil tanks. I feel sick...

Oh so do I.

 

[CommonLoonatic]

As I remember, the VI confirmed that he was "well trained" when it came to housework. I have a feeling that when he did any cleaning, he was cleaning a clean house, since she was such a perfectionist and would have been on top of everything. imo

Oh most definitely. My mom was super tidy and orderly, and the cleaning I did growing up was of an already clean house. But to my mother, you mopped every day, swept every day, dusted every day, wiped down counters every day... whether there was any evidence it was "needed".

 

[MsBetsy]

It looked to me like SW was very busy with her MLM job, including traveling, so it wouldn't surprise me if CW did some housework. When he found time for his AP, that I don't know. When SW was traveling for work would be convenient but then what about the kids? Did the affair take place at work? I'm not doubting he was having an affair BTW.

Apparently the person he was having the affair with was a co- worker, yes.

 

[Layla123]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

 

[gitana1]

Wow!!, WS Peeps, I'm impressed with Judge Kopcow's Orders today. Having seen innumerable Orders, I have to say he's clear, he's concise, and these are solid records that don't leave much room for cries of error on appeal. @Mrspratcher @gitana1 your takes, please?

He's no nonsense. His orders are as we predicted for the gathering of evidence.

 

[Johnny1181]

She also for work would do weekend trips as well as vacations and many vendor events outside the home. Would this be tied into time for custody? He would cover insurance of medical does that count? My point being is if he kept the children an average of two nights a week , which is highly probable with his forty hour work week and her trips how would that calculate
Colorado Judicial Branch - Self Help - Forms - Divorce, Family Matters, Civil Unions Child Custody

CW sure did seem to enjoy those vacations Shanann was able to provide him. Per SM posts of him enjoying.

imo he wasn't calculating child support or visitation days with the babies he dumped in separate tanks of oil. He wanted to be free.

Climb up those stairs... climb up and dump

Climb down those stairs... pick lifeless baby up...

Climb up a different tank... no need to keep sisters together I guess...step by step... dump...

Climb down again....

Shanann and baby Nico, time running short.... shallow grave.

I'm truly sorry for the bluntness.

Moo moo moo

 

[Layla123]

More photos from AB 9/27/18 (file too large)

 

[rogue ant]

In your opinion, is this a realistic list of accomplishments to have achieved before noon after 3 hours of sleep?

And in 7 hours (says it's only noon). No, not realistic, but I take it as a Thrive marketing post.

 

[roteone]

Yes. She did not paint a pretty picture of Shanann. It is up to us to determine this person’s credibility for ourselves, as everyone has their biases, depending on who they are closer too.

Absolutely!

 

[Allabouttrial]

May 10 Shanann Watts
"7:30 am and I’m showered, dressed, kids off to school, laundry started and dishes cleaned. Now to clean out the kids closets and take out winter clothes and fill them with summer. I already started packing for our 6 week trip to NC."

I could be mistaken but I think you may have missed the #Thrive that was at the end of her post.

 

[CommonLoonatic]

And she carefully made five whole weeks of daily dinners for him - that's 35.

But she's a liar according to some because she acted like everything was going well in her marriage in SM posts.

So I guess poor henpecked CW did it all. And managed to fool around too!

Gotta get me some Thrive!

All kidding aside, my suspicion is that he complained about SW to a family that disliked her and felt he shouldn't have to do work around the house. Felt he was maltreated for being "bossed" by his wife.

And I have this suspicion that CW likely escaped critique by his family by shifting blame to SW for things like moving to Colorado or not visiting enough. Etc.

And allowing allegations that she wasn't a good enough wife. Or mom.

So now we have this narrative that he was totally henpecked and did everything while she sat around and tried to get attention for her and her kid's illnesses. I guess.

Sounds like how my MIL talks about me. When my husband used to get upset with me, he'd run and rant to his mother. (I put my foot down about this, because it was harming our marriage) Of course, he never told her that he wasn't keeping up on basic things around the house, or the very valid reasons I'd get upset and nag about something. In his rants, it was awful that I even asked him to do ANYTHING (put his dirty clothes in the hamper... how could I? He WORKS after all!). I was the monster and he was the victim in the situation, always. Or I'd leave the kids with him and how exhausted he was from watching them (I didn't conceive them on my own, you know). Anything he could nitpick and rant about to make me look worse, he did. And his mother ate it up. I was a SAHM and I should be doing every single thing and he should never lift a finger!!! So, she thinks I'm a lazy bum and hates me. (Thankfully, I don't care that she does lol) Oh well!

And frankly, lots of people (if not most), do that when they're aggravated with someone. I'm sure CW was no different in that regard when discussing any issues with family. SW probably even was the same way. When we're ranting about someone doing us wrong, we're focusing on the wrong, not the things they've done right.

 

[nwmouse]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

Thanks for this info Layla. I feel nauseated thinking about those oil tanks.

 

[MsBetsy]

Oh most definitely. My mom was super tidy and orderly, and the cleaning I did growing up was of an already clean house. But to my mother, you mopped every day, swept every day, dusted every day, wiped down counters every day... whether there was any evidence it was "needed".

My mother in law always vacuumed the footprints out of the carpets, even right after the cleaning lady left. I always thought she had the best job since every week all she had to do was clean an already clean house. Speaking of which, I meant to ask before, does anyone know if there was carpeting upstairs in the house? I'm wondering if the prints in the carpet would show any evidence, especially if they were always vacuumed and he would not have time to vacuum after the murder? Are there any pictures of the bedrooms?

 

[gitana1]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

Wow, Layla. Thank you.