NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[bears10]

Do you think it is the state of New York or the county that these two roads, 30 and 30A are in that have failed in marking the road coming from the side as a dangerous intersection is ahead?

From what we see, the only stop sign is when you on it - too late to stop if you are speeding while driving a large vehicle and unfamiliar with the road.

Where are the rumble strips to make sure vehicles slow down? Where are flashing lights across the road, up high like a stop light? Even a flashing light on stop signs so many feet back from the actual cross road. Put this type stop sign on both sides of the road hoping the driver will see it.

Somewhere I read this intersection had been worked on to try to make it safer. IMO, show me what was done as it just looks like a regular stop sign - no warnings it is a dangerous intersection.

If they are state roads then the state. County roads then the county. But I believe these are state roads. FWIW when I drop off/pick up my stepkids, there is a stop sign that is hidden, and everyone I’ve mentioned it to has also blown it at least once. If a stop sign is hidden, why on earth isn’t there any sort of indication that you need to stop soon? Like you said, rumble strips or markings on the road.

Working for a company that has contracts with multiple govt agencies (state and county) it is such an eye opener to how our tax dollars are spent on things that aren’t that serious as opposed to things that are important. I can’t wait to gtfo of NY.

 

[mickey2942]

Where I live, there are often signs for trucks, warning them about the grades, and to use lower gears. And even then, the signs are inevitably ignored, in the winter, there is one stretch of road that trucks routinely jackknife. Too fast, can't slow down, slip, slide, tumble.

 

[CARIIS]

From former NTSB chair:

The tragic limo accident was preventable (opinion) - CNN

 

[CARIIS]

there is a video of the road down -- just looks scary - i keep getting this feeling that the limo had been picking up speed like further ahead of the stop sign
-

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Ok, so the son of the defense attorney who represented the people in The Sting operation started working for the limousine company THIS week? I'm Googling all this but it's too late so I'll have to look at it tomorrow.

FBI informant in terror stings owned limo in deadly crash, state source confirms
"Aref and Mohammed Hossain were both arrested in 2004 and accused of laundering money in connection with a fictitious terror plot set up by the FBI's informant."

"The attorneys for Aref and Mohammed Hossain, Terence L. Kindlon and Kevin Luibrand, respectively, had harsh words for the informant who helped convict their clients. Terence Kindlon is the father of Lee Kindlon, who was hired by the limousine company this week".

This gets stranger and stranger.

 

[bears10]

Ok, so the son of the defense attorney who represented the people in The Sting operation started working for the limousine company last week? I'm Googling all this but it's too late so I'll have to look at it tomorrow.

FBI informant in terror stings owned limo in deadly crash, state source confirms
"Aref and Mohammed Hossain were both arrested in 2004 and accused of laundering money in connection with a fictitious terror plot set up by the FBI's informant."

"The attorneys for Aref and Mohammed Hossain, Terence L. Kindlon and Kevin Luibrand, respectively, had harsh words for the informant who helped convict their clients. Terence Kindlon is the father of Lee Kindlon, who was hired by the limousine company this week"

I think lee is also an attorney, and he was hired by the son to represent/defend the limo company in the wake of the tragedy

ETA which is still interesting imo.

 

[carole]

The google map street view that was linked earlier in the thread did actually show overhead traffic lights -- just red, presumably flashing, not a traffic signal that changes color. It might have been the street view from 2014, so can't swear it's still in place today, but it was there on the street view.

There is no flashing light, just a regular stop sign. That was the wrong street view. You can see the correct intersection in CARIIS’s video at about 2:00 (posted above, and here).

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think lee is also an attorney, and he was hired by the son to represent/defend the limo company in the wake of the tragedy

ETA which is still interesting imo.

Wow so his father had harsh words for him, but the son ends up getting hired by him. Weird.

I was going into total conspiracy mode as I was thinking it was last week, but I corrected my post to say this week. Now it makes sense. But still it's strange..

ETA

And his other son was arrested for posing as an attorney. Got it.

Son of high-profile Albany lawyer pleads guilty to felony after posing as attorney on Staten Island

 

[human]

That will become more and more evident

The Limo industry is just the place for really shady characters. Lots of illicit stuff goes on: referrals to drug deals, prostitution, human trafficking, and it can be a way to launder money or transport illegal drugs. Many shady characters operate and the general public never goes beyond the cheap flash of the Wow factor when a big fancy car pulls up and drives you and your party around. You don’t ask to see the vehicle inspection reports or the driver’s common carrier licenses. Nor do you take a long look at the exit doors and the layout to figure out the safest place to be.

I’m just the kind of person that insists on a full shoulder - lap belt in my taxis or Ubers and buckles up my car in the garage before I even reverse out of it.

This is where the govt needs to step in and have teeth in the regulations. I bet there has been a lot of lobbying to stop regulatioms and inspections

 

[MelmothTheLost]

And one family lost four daughters. All this sorrow and loss.

An additional tragedy in this case is that so often when a sibling dies, the other siblings take in the deceased's small children if possible. When four siblings die like that, how can the surviving family absorb so many orphaned children?

 

[MsFacetious]

An additional tragedy in this case is that so often when a sibling dies, the other siblings take in the deceased's small children if possible. When four siblings die like that, how can the surviving family absorb so many orphaned children?

Hopefully they can split custody between both sets of grandparents. That's really the only thing I can think of. Hopefully they all live close. All a lot of things to hope for that may not be the case.

 

[Mica]

Ok, so the son of the defense attorney who represented the people in The Sting operation started working for the limousine company THIS week? I'm Googling all this but it's too late so I'll have to look at it tomorrow.

FBI informant in terror stings owned limo in deadly crash, state source confirms
"Aref and Mohammed Hossain were both arrested in 2004 and accused of laundering money in connection with a fictitious terror plot set up by the FBI's informant."

"The attorneys for Aref and Mohammed Hossain, Terence L. Kindlon and Kevin Luibrand, respectively, had harsh words for the informant who helped convict their clients. Terence Kindlon is the father of Lee Kindlon, who was hired by the limousine company this week".

This gets stranger and stranger.

Lee Kindlon was most likely hired this week by Hussain to represent the company in the limo matter. His father, Terence Kindlon, just retired in July.

Veteran lawyer Kindlon to leave public defender's office

Lee C. Kindlon, Founding Partner Albany NY Attorney Law Firm

 

[Elley Mae]

Yes, and also failure to repair previous violations, but I don't see them for that plate number.

Wouldn’t be surprised to hear they had one plate that got used on different vehicles.

 

[CocoChanel]

I know very little about how LE uses and manages their confidential informants. They call them CI’s which could also stand for CRIMINAL informant. It is clear that it is a shadowy underbelly of law and order, one that some might say is a necessary evil. I can’t help but think that these CI’s begin to feel even more entitled than they already do since they have already proven they believe they are above the law. If this limo company owner was the prolific informant reports have made him out to be, it is easy to assume he felt immune to consequences for ignoring rules, regulations and simple upkeep, maintenance and safety regulations for his businesses. And now 20 deceased innocent people, and hundreds of family and friends are paying the terrible price for that.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is where the govt needs to step in and have teeth in the regulations. I bet there has been a lot of lobbying to stop regulatioms and inspections

I don't know about NY implementing state and federal regulations and inspections but I worked for 20 years for one of the top bridge builders in our state.

The state and/or federal inspectors were on every bridge site 3 to 4 times every week.

They fully inspected every inch of each phase as the bridges were being built. That is why it is normal to see a bridge partially constructed without workers there. Each part of each phase must be inspected by the DOT and state inspectors before another phase can start. So employees would go to other bridge sites that had been inspected and continue to work on another phase.

All of the bridges were either state bridges or interstate bridges so all of them were government contracts. The inspectors were constantly making sure our company was in full compliance at all times. That included subcontractors and making sure we had the amount of minority employees workers agreed to in the government contracts. We always had way more minority bridge employees than the minimum specified.

I spent countless hours for years with the inspectors pulling documents for required verification that we were in compliance at all times.

I can't believe any state would not make sure every company connected to transportation safety would not make sure all regulations and inspections are enforced to the fullest.

What good are regulations if states ignore them instead of implementing the regulations that
have been enacted?

Imo

 

[mickey2942]

I bet that the owner of the company bails, but, then again, being an informant, he may not have anywhere else to go.

Probably liquidated assets, and shut off any potential lawsuits against his own personal finances.

 

[Isabelle]

Do you think it is the state of New York or the county that these two roads, 30 and 30A are in that have failed in marking the road coming from the side as a dangerous intersection is ahead?

From what we see, the only stop sign is when you on it - too late to stop if you are speeding while driving a large vehicle and unfamiliar with the road.

Where are the rumble strips to make sure vehicles slow down? Where are flashing lights across the road, up high like a stop light? Even a flashing light on stop signs so many feet back from the actual cross road. Put this type stop sign on both sides of the road hoping the driver will see it.

Somewhere I read this intersection had been worked on to try to make it safer. IMO, show me what was done as it just looks like a regular stop sign - no warnings it is a dangerous intersection.

Looks to me that they should significantly slow down the speed allowed on the approach to the intersection, 25 - 30 mph and strictly monitor and enforce it. A 3-way stop may be appropriate at the intersection. I would guess driver error is more to blame than the geography of the area. A lot of people drive like there is no way anything could happen, wreckless!!!

 

[Isabelle]

Do we know if the mother of the four sisters who died is still alive? I just cannot imagine her pain if she is. Today is the 15th anniversary of my 22 year old son’s auto accident that took his live. I know what my pain was for 8 years before I could function normally and don’t understand how a mother could possibly survive losing that many children at the same time. There were many times when I was suicidal after my son’s death. I know I wouldn’t still be here if I were in this mother’s situation. May God bless her and carry her gently along the path of grief.

 

[Herat]

Looks to me that they should significantly slow down the speed allowed on the approach to the intersection, 25 - 30 mph and strictly monitor and enforce it. A 3-way stop may be appropriate at the intersection. I would guess driver error is more to blame than the geography of the area. A lot of people drive like there is no way anything could happen, wreckless!!!

The problem is the steep, 7% grade down the hill to the stop sign. The problem is not the intersection itself.

If large trucks were banned from the road because they couldn't brake enough to stop, then there should be a flashing sign at the top of the hill warning of the upcoming stop and telling people to use a lower gear rather than brakes. We have those on mountain roads with steep descents.

 

[Jax49]

Do we know if the mother of the four sisters who died is still alive? I just cannot imagine her pain if she is. Today is the 15th anniversary of my 22 year old son’s auto accident that took his live. I know what my pain was for 8 years before I could function normally and don’t understand how a mother could possibly survive losing that many children at the same time. There were many times when I was suicidal after my son’s death. I know I wouldn’t still be here if I were in this mother’s situation. May God bless her and carry her gently along the path of grief.

This interview with the father's sister indicates the parents are living and both are "broken". I don't know how they'll survive.

ETA: Forgot link.